Getting encased colors to strike in Boro

[e. mort]

Here is my first vortex marble using GA Triple Passion, and NS AP. I was able to get it to flamestrike a little bit, and then kilned it at 1075 for 30 minutes. Around the outer edges of the vortex I am starting to get a hint of purple, but there is not much going on in the center. If I try and re-kiln this, what temperature and how long should I do it to bring out some more color? The marble is a little over 1" in diameter.

Also can anyone recommend a nice dark color to back vortex marbles with? I tried using GA Black (924) and it doesn't seem to like to be worked as long as I had to work it to get the marble nicely shaped. It started to devitrify on me and now has rough unattractive texture. What is a good dark color that you can really abuse? :biggrin:

Thanks for the Help.

Eric

[IF-Designs]

What kiln are you using ? You may need to up it to 1100-1150 for 30min to 45min because of the depth and size.

[e. mort]

I am using the skutt bead kiln with the glassmaster controller. However, I still have my old arrowsprings kiln with the set point digital controller which I am thinking of using for boro since I can adjust it on the fly without having to create a program everytime I want to try something different. The Skutt is awesome for softglass, but a bit of a pain for boro. But that could be just because I am still learning. :-)

Eric

[e. mort]

OK, the marble has been in the kiln for almost 3 hours now at about 1100. So far I can't see any changes from the picture I posted earlier. Darn! Is there anything else I can do?

[kbinkster]

Yes. You can send it to me for further examination.

EDIT:
I'm kidding, of course. It looks like a cool marble, but I'm not a glass moocher. :P

[IF-Designs]

only thing I can suggest is upping the temp Ive gone up to 1175 before with boro...the only other thing I can think is perhaps you got a mis marked rod of Triple Passion and it was actually something else...ive gotten beads that color but cant remember the color exactly...did the rod strike to purple when you used it and layed it down?

[e. mort]

Yeah, it is definately triple passion. It struck just fine when I was putting it down, and it is the same sample rod I have been using for everything else. I did add a little NS amber purple as well. does it strike differently?

Eric

[firefreak]

Eric, try some NS Blackberry for backing. You can rage the crap out of it and color stays good. I use it for dicro pendants and it works great.

[dogmaw]

That is one cool marble. Please be sure to post pictures after you get it to strike!

[e. mort]

Well, it doesn't look like it struck anymore in the kiln at all, but I will have to wait until the morning to examine it under the same light. I will post another picture then. Henry at Glass Alchemy Arts thinks that I may have put it into the kiln too hot, and that I need to make sure that I wait until the orange glow is gone, and then pop it immediately into the kiln.

I also made sure that I checked my digital pyrometer against my other kiln and they are both in sync to within 13-14 degrees. Nice to know that my 10 year old arrowsprings controller has only drifted by about 1.4 degrees per year. =D>

Eric

[IF-Designs]

Yeah, it is definately triple passion. It struck just fine when I was putting it down, and it is the same sample rod I have been using for everything else. I did add a little NS amber purple as well. does it strike differently?

Eric
They strike pretty much about the same way amber purple will usually strike sooner....some colors dont play nice together and maybe thats the issue :(

[Cosmo]

The trick with Triple Passion (and with all the other striking colors) when they are encased is to keep them hot the whole time. That's sometimes easier said than done. But, keep the whole piece as hot as you can so it doesn't develop any color and then strike it when you are done.

I back my vortexes with GA Black-Violet. I usually pull stringers and back it with the stringer rather than full-sized rods. I have also had some luck rolling the cone in black powder (I believe it's NS Onyx, but I'm not sure).

Oh, and something that size I would leave at striking temp for at least 3-4 hours. I always have pretty good results like that. I have also taken pieces like that, heated them back up in the kiln, then picked them up and reheated them in the flame, let them cool, and then flame struck them again. That's another of the beauties about boro...

[e. mort]

Thanks for the info Chad! As you can see from the attached picture the hours of annealing at different temperatures didn't work very well. So, I am going to try an reheat the thing in the torch. However, I do have a question. How do you keep a marble from losing it's shape when it is that hot?

Eric

[Cosmo]

Luck. Lots and lots of luck.


Seriosusly, it doesn't take that much heat to make the colors lose their "color". You shouldn't have a problem. But, if it does start flopping around on you, just put a punty on both ends of the marble so you can hold it with both hands.

[e. mort]

Ok, that was a duh? question. Two punties, got it. Off to try it now. I will post the results tomorrow if the marble and I both survive. :smile:

Luck. Lots and lots of luck.


Seriosusly, it doesn't take that much heat to make the colors lose their "color". You shouldn't have a problem. But, if it does start flopping around on you, just put a punty on both ends of the marble so you can hold it with both hands.

[elle]

Or... you could stop torturing yourself and try Purple Luster. I fretted and toiled over Amber Purple for a long time (and my batch of Triple Passion seems very much like Amber Purple). I discovered the wonderous and effortless purple of Purple Luster far too late. My Amber Purple and Triple Passion always end up looking a lot like what you have. Purple Luster is not nearly as persnickety as AP or TP, and does not require as much heat in order to stay purple. You guys probably know how much Smiley loves the Amber Purple, but he has a magic wand or something. ;) Just try the Purple Luster if you haven't already. But don't over (kiln) strike it too much, because it can turn black (very, very, very dark amber.) 1050 should work. If you don't like it, you can kick me...if you can ever find me.

Sarah :)

[e. mort]

Thanks Sarah! I will try that as well. Tried reheating the marble today via torch, and it wasn't pretty. GA Onyx doesn't like to be reheated very much. The color doesn't look that great, but I will have to wait a bit longer to take it out of the kiln and see what my final result is.

Eric

[e. mort]

OK, tried reheating and reshaping in the torch. It washed the color out even more. I think this is a case of as Mr. Loren Stump puts it "The longer your work it the better it does NOT get." However, I did learn a lot from the process. Here is a picture of the abused marble. I think I will keep the Amber Purples and Triple Passion to surface treatments for now. #-o

Eric

[e. mort]

These are the colors that I am getting on surface applications, but I would really like to be able to get these colors encased or (in my dreams) deep inside a vortex marble. drool....

Eric

[Cosmo]

Well, that light bluish-purple color is a result of reduction, so you may try using a reducing flame when you are applying the color to your clear for your vortex. Also, striking isn't usually necessary to bring out that particular color.

[IF-Designs]

Eric I tried a big ole marble last night too with just a layer of Double Amber Purple and it came out the same as yours :( I thought I put it in pretty hot but not hot enough. Its not the greatest marble ever cause I suck at marbles lol but I got my new/used cheetah yesterday and had to try it out :)

[e. mort]

Well, at least it just isn't me and my torch. :smile: Maybe if we try striking it as soon as it is lightly encased, and then preceeding to build the rest of the marble, but keeping it on the cool side? Heck, I don't know, but I will keep playing with it on the side and see if I can get something to work. I will let you know if I have any success.

Eric

[jayglass]

Good luck... Purple does not like to be encased and struck..... esp w/ marbles......

[Mr. Smiley]

I have only done this on a limited scale, I don't make many marbles... I do use the APs in implosions... the sickest one I've ever done was a flower that I used the beloved Charisma in... man, that was one sweet experimental and the only one that stayed really really purple inside. I have a few shorts left. I'll try the purple luster as a solution. The APs are very temperature sensitive. You need to work them hot hot hot and the deeper they are encased, the harder it becomes. I'll try to post some pics of my implosion work with APs. I've gotten that color Eric got, more times than I care to admit. :lol:

[jayglass]

Eric,
If you want Purple in your Vortex marbles try some gold fume with Either Perriwinkle or Hyacinth....... Also you can make a color overlay of Turbo cobalt over white ...pull into stringers.... ( also used with gold fume...) .....

<J>

[e. mort]

Thanks Jay! I have ordered a little gold to play with, so I will try that when it gets here.

Question, do you lay down the Hyacinth or Periwinkle first and then fume over it, or fume then dot with Hyacinth or Periwinkle?

Eric

[jayglass]

Eric,
Try fuming the clear vortex cone with gold..., then lay lines of color.... <J>

[baylie]

Try stirring the AP first, then kilning longer.

[Mr. Smiley]

I like my AP shaken, not stirred. :lol: