my oxy regulator has a problem - help please

[Onekura]

My oxy regulator is not giving me constant pressure anymore (always in bursts) and it started making a squicky noise. I tried adjusting the pressure up and down, but this will only change the frequency of the bursts.
Does anybody know a fix for this or do I need a new one?

[cheng076]

Your regulator is cycling. Probably due to a bad valve or broken spring. It can be repaired but may not be worth it unless it is a top quality expensive regulator to start with.

[JEK3]

Sounds like it's sticking. Whatever you do, DON'T oil it!

[Onekura]

can I unstick it????

[JEK3]

You can carefully take it apart to see if anything is obviously broken. The first piece to go is usually a tear or hole in the diaphragm. I'd recommend a little Google-time to find out what the insides are supposed to look like and learn how to disassemble it (a picture's worth a thousand words, and I really can't explain it that well). I find that I can usually repair something by taking it apart, finding nothing obvious, putting it back together, and finding out it now works.

[Onekura]

Thank you all for the input - so now, I take it apart and put it back together and I check for leaks . . . . ok . . . . but the cycling rate is much faster - it is about 1 per 2 sec - does this mean there is a big leak???? Will get back to you after I have done all this . . . . checking . . . checking . . . .

[Dale M.]

For REGULATOR problems its probably best to send it to competent repair shop and have it repaired or rebuilt... Other solution is to replace it.

For more information on regulators....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8

Dale

[LarryC]

For REGULATOR problems its probably best to send it to competent repair shop and have it repaired or rebuilt... Other solution is to replace it.

For more information on regulators....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8

Dale

I would second Dale's suggestion. Why mess with it and take a chance unless you know your way around inside a regulator?

[elle]

It sounds like your diaphragm needs to be replaced. No biggie, it happens. I've had to do that once or twice due to brass shavings being stuck in it from torquing (sp?) the male part too hard for a leak-free fit. It's not a repair I'd attempt myself. I've paid less than $15 for the replacement of the diaphragm, male part, bolt and labor combined at my local supplier, and the entire repair takes less than 10 minutes. Your mileage may vary, however. If your supplier quotes you something absurd, shop around.

I hope this helps...
Sarah

[ElementalsDesign]

I agree as well. Don't go messing around inside an Oxy regulator if you don't know it.

It's *safety* equipment. No amount of savings is worth taking a chance with hooking it up thinking it's "all better" when it might not be.

Repairs are normally cheap and, if not, replacing it is still a lot safer!

Just my 2 cents.

~Rachel

[Onekura]

OK, I have to update this. First, thank you all for helping.
My regulator is a very simple, old one gauge model. There are 4 screws that can be undone to take the "lid" off. I did this, thinking . . if its buggered I might as well have a look. Inside I found a membrane (looks mint - no cracks - no dirt) and underneath was a little pin with a mushroom head that pushes against the membrane. I guess this is what regulates my pressure. This looked all clean - moved freely and I saw nothing wrong???
OK -I put it all back together, installed it - sprayed with soapy water - no leaks at all.
I sprayed my entire system . . . no leaks.

But now the problem has changed a little. It starts off with constant pressure - like it always was - but only for about 4 minutes - than it starts those fluctuations and getting worse from there on.

I am totally out of ideas - nobody will fix a regulator this old - don't even remember where I got it from - and a new one will cost about $ 170 here.

Hopefully one of you has any more ideas what to try . . .

[JEK3]

You say it has only one gauge - outlet pressure I assume?
If you ever decide to take it apart again, take some pictures and post them.

[Onekura]

no, it shows the tank pressure only - the outlet is just a scale arrouns the shaft of the regulating knob.
I will post pictures later

[Onekura]

here is my regulator - Pictures

[Onekura]

and more - still can't find anything wrong - can you see anything?????

[ElementalsDesign]

My friend Ernie's reply: Harold at Hansen and Miller is the only guy I know who might know what is wrong.
I haven't a clue.

(Harold is in Seattle, WA, I believe). I will check with Ernesto tomorrow to be sure. But what I do recall about Harold is he is happy to help anyone any time he can. :)

~Rachel

[JEK3]

The valve might be leaking. When you put the brass pin in the hole, the end of it contacts a seal/valve. This is the valve that turns the high-pressure oxygen on and off. If there is a leak, the pressure may cycle because the regulator really has lost control over what's happening inside it. Look for any corrosion on the pin (you may want to try to clean it with a rough cloth). If you can disassemble the part that screws into the tank, you will probably find a small spring and a seal. The seal (and the surface it mates to) may need a good cleaning. Be careful, as this is the high-pressure end.

[cheng076]

One of the pics shows what looks to be a hole in the black diaphram. Apparently worn there by the movement of the diaphram between the spring base and the brass 'valve' stem. If it is a hole that is most likely your problem. The spring base piece pushes down from the top while the top of the brass 'valve' pushes up from below. This will form a sort of seal until their relative positions change then this 'seal' leaks and the regulator tries to compensate starting the cycling. The safest thing is to get a new regulator.

I can't/wont advise you to make a new diaphram but it is possible to do if you can find a source for the exact same type neoprene material. IF you decide to try this approach then be very careful and take extreme precautions when testing it later.

PJH

[JEK3]

I saw the hole, too, but thought it was just a design feature.

[Onekura]

Thank you so much for the input. The hole actually is a hole, but it looks like it is supposed to be there. It is not rubbed through - it has a slight raised edge - so I think it should be there. The pin had a little black buildup on the shaft which I cleaned off - no change.
I don't feel confident enough to make my own diaphram, so I bite the bullet and go for a new regulator.
Thank you all again for your time and effort - hope I can help you one day . . .

[elle]

I agree, you should probably just get a new one, so that when it needs repair, you'll be able to find someone to do it.

Just steer clear of light duty/economy regulators. I'm not sure if they still do, but the glass suppliers used to sell these, and they blew the first time I tried to use them. They were Victor Medalist models. When I called to return them, they tried to sell me two-stage regulators, which are not only unnecessary for what we do, but very pricey, to boot. I went through two sets of Medalists before I gave up and Dad gave me his set from his welding apparatus. I've had better luck with those than anything else I've tried.

You definitely want a medium or heavy duty model. I believe mine is a medium duty, it's a Victor Firepower, model number 250-80-540, and it works wonderfully. It's seen 8+ years of heavy use and has required very little maintenance, just what I described in my previous post. I searched amazon and found two different sellers who offer that model for around $100, so you might not have to spend as much as you think.

Good luck!!
Sarah

[Onekura]

Thank you Sarah - I will keep this in mind. Here in New Zealand I have my oxygen supplier and he offers pretty much all the welding gear that's available. The one on the shelf is a 2 gauge model (don't know much more) and it goes for about $NZ 170. I might go for that, because it is local - so I have someone to go back to. Thanks again for your help

[Dale M.]

There should only be one hole in diaphragm, and it is in exact center and it is for "pin" to go through. Also hole in diaphragm for pin should be snug on pin because it has to seal... If there is any other hole or crack in diaphragm, that is your problem...

Dale