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ELB
2011-06-28, 8:28am
I did a board search and got a little more confused.

Currently I'm shopping around for a torch. I don't really want to spend a lot of $. I'll be mostly making small stuff and maybe blow a little Christmas ornament from time to time. Gas is of abundance since my husband loves to weld so I'm not too concerned about gas and regulators. It really comes down to the torch. While I'm not interested in soft glass, I might want to try it from time to time. What's the most bang for your buck as far as a good torch? I think I want surface mix because like I said, I might try soft glass one of these days.

The ones I'm looking at is the Cricket, Bobcat, Nortel Minor Bench Burner, National 8M Torch (the idea of having multiple adapters sound nice, but is is a gimmick)? I'm currently using a studio in town and I think it's either a Cricket or Bobcat.

If I'm completely on the wrong path, please also advise!

Thanks for your time!

LePatron
2011-06-28, 8:31am
For the $300-$400 price of a used Lynx, you cant go wrong......... Boro loves oxygen, especially all of the silver based colors. I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Lynx to anyone wanting to play in boro. If you ever want to melt huge pieces, then its an easy and natural progression to the Phantom/Mirage...........

Good luck!

deb tarry
2011-06-28, 8:59am
I agree with LePatron.

ELB
2011-06-28, 9:51am
Is the Garage Sale thread a good place to look for used goods? I've been checking Craigslist but no luck.

Any tips for buying used would be appreciated.

glassdog
2011-06-28, 9:56am
ELB,
If your husband already has a welding torch, you have everything you need to work boro. All you need to do is to use propane instead of acetolene. your regulators will work on both gasses.
I have been using a welding torch for the last 40 years and find it to work beter than any of the expensive surface mix for for boro. However it does not work well for soft glass. And some of the boro colors dornt work well with it. But if you are just starting with boro and want a quick, cheap way to start, the welding torch is by far your best bet.
Take a look at my website and see what can be accomplished with a simple welding torck.
Mike

ELB
2011-06-28, 10:11am
ELB,
If your husband already has a welding torch, you have everything you need to work boro. All you need to do is to use propane instead of acetolene. your regulators will work on both gasses.
I have been using a welding torch for the last 40 years and find it to work beter than any of the expensive surface mix for for boro. However it does not work well for soft glass. And some of the boro colors dornt work well with it. But if you are just starting with boro and want a quick, cheap way to start, the welding torch is by far your best bet.
Take a look at my website and see what can be accomplished with a simple welding torck.
Mike

:jawdrop:

NO WAY! Everything in your gallery is done with a welding torch?

I would hug you right now but that is probably a bit creepy! Seriously.... thank you so much! This is AWESOME!!!

:happy:

glassdog
2011-06-28, 10:14am
Thanks for the kind words, and yes everything was done with a welding torch.
Give it a try, you wont be sorry.
Mike

LarryC
2011-06-28, 10:16am
For the $300-$400 price of a used Lynx, you cant go wrong......... Boro loves oxygen, especially all of the silver based colors. I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Lynx to anyone wanting to play in boro. If you ever want to melt huge pieces, then its an easy and natural progression to the Phantom/Mirage...........

Good luck!

Great advice, here. I started with a Lynx and have just made the jump up to the Mirage. Love both torches. Most of my work will still be done on the Lynx center, though. I am not partial to the small non triple mix GTTs, though. I think they are overly expensive for what you get.

SerendipityArtGlass
2011-06-28, 11:48am
I'm off to steal DH's welding torch!

LePatron
2011-06-28, 12:28pm
:jawdrop:

NO WAY! Everything in your gallery is done with a welding torch?

:happy:

Bear in mind a welding torch is a little tougher to get all the right flame characteristics and likely near impossible to work striking colors properly with. Its also tiny. That's why the pieces in his gallery are also tiny. I have a Smith Little Torch too, it's a cute little guy great for melting in marbles or working other types of welds or simple small stuff. It still isnt good for regular boro work, as a welding torch is meant for welding and a GTT is meant for melting boro..........

That Lynx will sell for the same $$$ you paid for it too. Its like spending nothing and just using GTT as a currency converter.

ELB
2011-06-28, 12:41pm
Bear in mind a welding torch is a little tougher to get all the right flame characteristics and likely near impossible to work striking colors properly with. Its also tiny. That's why the pieces in his gallery are also tiny. I have a Smith Little Torch too, it's a cute little guy great for melting in marbles or working other types of welds or simple small stuff. It still isnt good for regular boro work, as a welding torch is meant for welding and a GTT is meant for melting boro..........

That Lynx will sell for the same $$$ you paid for it too. Its like spending nothing and just using GTT as a currency converter.

Thanks!

Since my welding infrastructure is ready to go, I think to start out I will go the welding route because I don't plan on doing anything bigger than 1" of stuff. If I like that enough, then I think I'll buy a torch later down the road.

LePatron
2011-06-28, 1:18pm
Sounds like a great plan. Best of luck with it and post some pictures too eh? :)

crofootadv
2011-06-28, 1:48pm
$.02 - don't discount the minor burner or other small glass torches - they are very easy to get a neutral flame and get colors to strike, that's the difference between a torch made for glass and a torch made for metal.

A glass torch will generally come with a stand and ergonomics ready to be a bench burner, but you'd have to find a stand for a welding torch to get it into position to melt glass comfortably.

A minor or miniCC or Cricket can be found cheap on eBay or Garage sale for around $100, heck, Wale has brand new minor's for $135 right now. I'd have no problem buying a used minor or miniCC, they are both very durable and will survive the glass learning process well.

I run a Redmax with a surface mix minor on top, and I still use the minor for about 80 or 90% of the work.

ELB
2011-06-28, 4:32pm
$.02 - don't discount the minor burner or other small glass torches - they are very easy to get a neutral flame and get colors to strike, that's the difference between a torch made for glass and a torch made for metal.

A glass torch will generally come with a stand and ergonomics ready to be a bench burner, but you'd have to find a stand for a welding torch to get it into position to melt glass comfortably.

A minor or miniCC or Cricket can be found cheap on eBay or Garage sale for around $100, heck, Wale has brand new minor's for $135 right now. I'd have no problem buying a used minor or miniCC, they are both very durable and will survive the glass learning process well.

I run a Redmax with a surface mix minor on top, and I still use the minor for about 80 or 90% of the work.

Cool! If the welding torch plan goes south for some reason, it's good to know that I can get away with spending $100-150ish on a torch.

Sounds like a great plan. Best of luck with it and post some pictures too eh? :)

I will definitely post pics when there is success! It might be a while though LOL

glassdog
2011-06-28, 4:40pm
Just a note about the size of my work. The dog you see on my logo, the collie, is 6 inches tall. and most of the work see on my site is at least 4 inches tall, other than the jewelery stuff. I use a variaity of tips from a single candle to a rose bud with 200 candles. The flames range in size from 1/4 of an inch to 3 inches in dia..
achieving the right flame is not hard at all. All of my students will agree, so try it befor you put it down. It is not the cost of the torch that makes a good lampworker, it is the knowledge and control of the flame.

Bunyip
2011-06-28, 7:51pm
You can go surprisingly big with the much maligned welding torch but if you want a good general purpose glass torch the suggestions of the lynx at the upper end and the minor at the lower end are both good. The lynx is overall a better choice IMO, both for flame characteristics, 'push' and size of finished work, but if you're melting glass it can't be all wrong :)

I do strongly suggest that you TRY before you buy if at all possible.

menty666
2011-06-28, 9:47pm
I believe this gentleman's working on one of those tiny welding torches ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WnHQz4x5m8

glassdog
2011-06-29, 7:31am
This thread was started by someone who was wanting to get a boro working torch for the least amount of money. And the welding torch is the way to do it. If you want a general purpose torch, one that will work boro and soft glass, a surface mix is the way to go. If I was in the bussiness of selling torches, I would for sure be telling them that a $1000 torch is the way to go. I have used a lot of torches from a $3000 one to a $10 one i found at a flea market. And after 40 years of practice I will use the $10 one everytime. There is no problem using the stricking colors of boro, There is a problem using some of the boro colors, but only 3% or 5% of them. And a welding torch does not work well at all for soft glass. For them I use a Nortel major/minor, which is probabily the best buy for the buck in surface mix torches. And a little creativity and a trip to the hardware store will build a torch base.
Remember the cost of the torch does not make you a better lampworker, knowledge and control of the flame does.
And Menty666, do these look like tiny torches?
Mike
241991

241992

241974

Juln
2011-06-29, 8:14am
Premix torches such as welding torches and Nationals 3s are definitely popular with sculptors, especially people who started in the 70s. I've never gotten into them myself... I think they tend to be better for sculpting than blowing.

While a budget can be important when you're starting out, the cost of your torch is not really the point in the long run. In the >$500 range, there's no question that a more expensive torch will melt glass more quickly. For the sub $500 range you really have a lot more choices.

I'm not a fan of premix torches with tips, because
1> changing tips in the middle of a piece is very inconvenient vs. adjusting a knob and
2> premix flames do not produce the best results with many boro colors.
3> they are incredibly loud

Also, good tips are not inexpensive - they can cost from $10 to $200. Check out 8M tips for instance http://www.glasscraftinc.com/home/gla/smartlist_471/national_torches_tips_and_accessories.html
By the time you've bought enough tips to approximate a Red Max, you've spent as much money and have a torch that is more of a pain to operate.

I'd definitely suggest taking a class or visiting a friend and trying a couple of torches. This isn't the investment of a lifetime, after all, whatever you buy will surely melt glass and do just fine.

ELB
2011-06-29, 8:28am
Also, good tips are not inexpensive - they can cost from $10 to $200.


This is very true if you don't have a DH that is a machinist and loves to weld. I already have most of this stuff on hand, so this will work great for me. \\:D/

Also, I had no intention to start such a debate. Honestly, I have a couple hundred bucks to blow and if I could save that for later when I'm ready to get something "boro specific," then great. I think that between the welding goodies that I already have around and my general lack of boro knowledge, this will be a good tool for me to learn.

glassdog
2011-06-29, 8:36am
Using cars as an example, here is the deal. I would love to drive a corvette if I had the money. but I am stuck with my geo metro because I'm a poor man. Both cars will get you to the same place. Both cars have radios and air conditioning. When you get to where you are going, you wouldnt be any farther there in the vette than you you the geo. Although in the geo you wouldnt have to worry about where you park.
The same thing with torches.
My set up is like a drum set. I have 5 torches around me with foot peddles to turn them on and off. That way I dont even have to let go of the glass to turn a knob. My torches consist of 4 premix of varing sizes and one surface mix which is actually 2, a nortel major/minor.

Bunyip
2011-06-29, 8:51am
My post was intended to assist the original poster and provide some additional information. If anyone took offense, please accept my apologies.

To the OP (ELB):

Not sure if you misunderstood: Welding torches ARE more "boro specific". You already have that =) Surface mix torches, such as the minor and/or lynx are much more general purpose. And for a "soft glass specific" torch, you can get a hot-head for under $50.00 which is good for beads and such up to 1-2" in size (depending on your patience), but good luck getting a boro rod to do more than bend (a little).

Personally, I think the lynx is pretty much the ideal small to mid-sized surface mix torch for what I do (Boro solid sculpture, marbles, pendants etc, plus soft glass beads too.). There's a reason it's the center fire on so many of GTT's larger torches. It's just not 'inexpensive'.

As for the debate - listen to what's being said, there's a lot of good information. Don't feel bad about it. A healthy debate educates everyone involved.

LePatron
2011-06-29, 9:21am
I started Boro with a Red Max. But, I'm primarily a pipe/bubbler maker. A welding torch wouldnt work for my needs. The Red Max worked, but like the car analogy, it was like an old Bronco. Its ugly, its slow, but it works. When I upgraded to the Mirage later, which is a work horse, everything that used to take a half hour on the Red Max now takes 5 minutes on a Mirage.

I used to smoke 2 cigarettes waiting for a honeycomb spoon to condense on the Red Max. I'd be lucky to take a puff or two now.

I like to think that your *progression* will be substantially more improved as a result of having more flame control on the Lynx as recommended.

ELB
2011-06-29, 9:36am
My post was intended to assist the original poster and provide some additional information. If anyone took offense, please accept my apologies.

To the OP (ELB):

Not sure if you misunderstood: Welding torches ARE more "boro specific". You already have that =) Surface mix torches, such as the minor and/or lynx are much more general purpose. And for a "soft glass specific" torch, you can get a hot-head for under $50.00 which is good for beads and such up to 1-2" in size (depending on your patience), but good luck getting a boro rod to do more than bend (a little).

Personally, I think the lynx is pretty much the ideal small to mid-sized surface mix torch for what I do (Boro solid sculpture, marbles, pendants etc, plus soft glass beads too.). There's a reason it's the center fire on so many of GTT's larger torches. It's just not 'inexpensive'.

As for the debate - listen to what's being said, there's a lot of good information. Don't feel bad about it. A healthy debate educates everyone involved.

Yes, this makes sense!

If I HAD $400-500 laying around and no welding stuff (and I wish I had that for a Lynx) and no gas control knowledge from my DH, it's a totally different story. In the meantime, I'm learning A LOT here. More than any welding or glass torch saleman can teach me LOL

menty666
2011-06-29, 9:45am
doh...*I* wasn't calling the welder's small :)

I like them actually

Juln
2011-06-29, 10:16am
The torch question comes up so often on some other forums that people have began to dread it (began to dread it like 8 years ago, myself). Over there the question is always 'Lynx vs Red Max'.

RAM wrote an essay called 'The Myth of the Perfect Burner'. In a nutshell, it's about how no single torch is best at everything.

It doesn't really matter what you start with. Melt some glass and check it out with whatever is convenient and inexpensive. Later on when you have experience, decide what torch to buy, if any.

Juln
2011-06-29, 10:19am
This is very true if you don't have a DH that is a machinist and loves to weld. I already have most of this stuff on hand, so this will work great for me. \\:D/

I guess... I'm not that familiar with welding tips, but the ones I've seen tend to be not optimal for glass (rather sharp and narrow). You might need to buy a few tips to find the flame ranges you need for glass.

Also, you may need to clean the torch thoroughly if it's been used for welding with acetylene.

PaulaP
2011-06-29, 8:15pm
ELB, I have just recently started dabbling with Boro I mainly went from a Hot Head to a mini CC I do love my mini CC but I had the good fortune to spend a few instructional hours with Mike Marsh (glassdog) this past weekend when I sat down and realized I would be using a welder torch I thought to myself I am going to make a disaster out of everything I touch today. I was so amazed, not only was Mike an awesome instructor but the torch was so very easy to adjust the heat and loved how much faster it was melting boro than my mini CC. Today I found myself thinking I need more heat this mini cc just isn't doing it for me....lol

Good luck with your new adventure and remember to have fun.
Paula

Greg Cowles
2011-06-30, 5:58am
IMO it doesn't really matter, cook with what you have and get a feel for the boro. When your creativity expands you will reach the limitations of the torch you have. Then you will know what direction to go in as far as a torch. Surface mix, premix, flame size etc.

Good luck and happy torching

ELB
2011-06-30, 10:08am
IMO it doesn't really matter, cook with what you have and get a feel for the boro. When your creativity expands you will reach the limitations of the torch you have. Then you will know what direction to go in as far as a torch. Surface mix, premix, flame size etc.

Good luck and happy torching

I completely agree.

I'm just worried about wasting the $ and buying something I won't appreciate because I'm not "good enough" to appreciate it. So everyone's feedback here is greatly appreciated!

LarryC
2011-06-30, 10:24am
I completely agree.

I'm just worried about wasting the $ and buying something I won't appreciate because I'm not "good enough" to appreciate it. So everyone's feedback here is greatly appreciated!

That may be true. On the other hand realize that you may develop lots of bad habits early on because of your choices in equipment that may be very hard to break later. I would suggest that if a $200-$400 initial investment is too much for you, Boro may not be the best choice at all. Boro is very expensive, both clear and color.

ELB
2011-06-30, 10:41am
That may be true. On the other hand realize that you may develop lots of bad habits early on because of your choices in equipment that may be very hard to break later. I would suggest that if a $200-$400 initial investment is too much for you, Boro may not be the best choice at all. Boro is very expensive, both clear and color.

I didn't say that $200-$400 is too expensive: I don't want to spend $400 on a torch that I end up hating because I'm lacking a certain skill or something. I'm sorry if my newbie terminology came across as being cheap.

No matter what the hobby is, I always run into the crossroad of capital investment. I can go out into the "wild" and let a salesperson talk me into something I might not appreciate or I can ask people that have had experience and gather information that way instead. That's all.

Maybe it didn't come across correctly, but I'm trying to do a little research before I splurge. I wouldn't have posted this thread if Google or a board search yielded the information that's needed. I know how much glass is because I'm currently spending hours at the studio and I've put $$$ into glass. It sounds like some of you are tired of this question and I'm sorry for beating a dead horse.

glassdog
2011-06-30, 10:46am
I agree with Greg. Play with what you have. As your skill increases you will either reinforce what you have or see the need to change.
And it is all about having fun.
So enjoy.
Mike

Bunyip
2011-06-30, 2:06pm
It sounds like some of you are tired of this question and I'm sorry for beating a dead horse.

LOL don't feel bad about what happens once you release a thread into the wild. Unless you're intentionally starting trouble, you have no responsibility whatsoever for the life it takes on unless you are trolling (provoking controversy).

Now, I have a couple more torch comments/questions:

Based on what you said (melting boro, cheapest possible way) the welding torch is good. HOWEVER... If you're playing at a studio, what torches are you using? That may affect how you feel about the welding torch...you learn different habits with different torches. I remember the class I took with Milon he pretty much hated the gigantic Bethlehem (great white?) at the studio and opted for a premix that someone had brought along...

Second thought - If you were to buy a torch such as a lynx, or a minor burner etc, you can often get them used for a bit of a savings over list...and sell them for the same price if you dislike them. Therefore you'd only be out shipping, so that's a good plan "B". Depending on what you've tried at the studio, that may be your best option.

Third thought - before buying a torch, try as many as possible so that you have an idea of what is out there. There are a lot of options - but don't panic if you make a choice and don't like it, you can always change your mind later! Like Mike said, it's about having fun, & "Which Torch" is hardly an earth shattering decision...(although it may cause some glass to crack!)

ELB
2011-07-01, 7:29am
If you're playing at a studio, what torches are you using?

They have GTT Bobcats there. I'm quite indifferent about it. With that said, I think I might need to get my hands on as many torches as possible. At the minimum, at least try the welding torch setup. If I hate it, then I will keep trying torches until I find a decent one.

Bunyip
2011-07-01, 5:38pm
Ok. From what I gather GTT bobcat is somewhat similar to other smaller torches such as the minor burner, although the GTT torches seem a bit more forceful. Once you move to the GTT triple mix torches (lynx, cheetah etc) the flame can be set to be even more what I think of as "penetrating". When you play with the welding torch, the flame will be even more intense and penetrating with the standard welding tips. So that will be a good start in your learning! The nice thing as noted above is that you can get a variety of tips for welding torches which will allow you change the flame characteristics in new and interesting ways.

Have fun and post pictures!

LePatron
2011-07-01, 6:21pm
I forgot about the welding tips. How versatile are the options for welders torches? I use a Smith Little Torch and use the #7 tip with it since that's the highest propane/oxygen flowing tip. It's an insanely handy boro too, I use it on any pipe with dots, marbles, welds, gong slides, etc.......

Bunyip
2011-07-02, 1:56pm
Here's a few examples of more lampwork oriented tips:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/69383614/13-hole-shelbo-whisper-tip-for

Greg Cowles
2011-07-03, 11:12am
Don't worry too much about the $$$ most of the torches on the market will retain their resale value for years. As long as you don't abuse it you won't be wasting money. in my time as a torchworker I found that I appreciated the torch I had until I reached the limits of what I could do with it, and wanted to do more. I started out on a soldering tip on a bottle of propane, went to a hothead on MAP gas, then a nortel minor, now I have a major minor and a national 3a, and I'm looking at picking up a GTT. For me this was a natural progression of hitting the limit of what I could do with the torch I had, and wanting to work either larger or faster. The most important things are to start feeling the glass, getting your fingers moving, and to work on flame control.

Buying your first torch and kiln can be an intimidating experience. Learn as much as you can so you can make informed decisions, but remember that with today's systems you really can't go wrong. Your style and preferences will change over time, and your equipment can change easily.
Basically there are no wrong decisions

I hope this helps to alleviate your first torch anxiety

ELB
2011-07-05, 7:59am
Buying your first torch and kiln can be an intimidating experience. Learn as much as you can so you can make informed decisions, but remember that with today's systems you really can't go wrong. Your style and preferences will change over time, and your equipment can change easily.
Basically there are no wrong decisions

I hope this helps to alleviate your first torch anxiety


Totally! Reading how everyone generates a flame really helps. Now at the minimum I have an idea of what to look for and what will work for my needs.

Kiln.... :hide: That's a whole other story though. One thing at a time! ;)

Thanks for all your help guys! I really appreciate it.

crofootadv
2011-07-05, 2:09pm
Kiln.... :hide: That's a whole other story though. One thing at a time! ;)

Don't hide, Heck - start another "First Kiln" thread, we haven't had a one of those in a couple of months ! and don't let anybody bitching about thread subjects stop you, it's all valuable info, or opinions at least. I read every thread in the Boro Room because you never know what you're going to learn from just a random posting.

:cool:

LePatron
2011-07-05, 2:46pm
I'll just blurt it out, Paragon BlueBird XL or the Paragon F-420. :) Pick which one you need size wise, it'll work great!

Mr. Meker
2011-07-07, 10:29pm
I started with a torch like this-

172638


Then I moved to the torch in this thread-

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133983

Now I have 2 5lpm 10psi concentrators. I run a National 3a with an OX-3 tip and a Nortel Minor. I was using the Minor today. It needs all 10lpm my concentrators can provide. My National 3a only needs 7lpm with the tip I have and is faster, hotter and has a larger flame than the Minor. Here is a pic of a neutral flame.

185593

I think I will do some measurements soon, oxygen use, flame size, and time to cut a rod and make a gather.

And now to start another debate, notice I don't use the Oxford comma. Neither should you.

Conrad Hoffman
2011-07-08, 5:51am
Strunk and White, Lynne Truss (Eats, Shoots & Leaves) and Bill Walsh (The Elephants of Style) all seem to agree with you. 'Course there ain't no law...

Is your name really Meker, or does that refer to the famous Meker burner from the chem lab? I have an old one and was surprised at how well the thing melts soft glass without even a pressurized air supply. It's hot!

Mr. Meker
2011-07-08, 9:55pm
I thought I could use a Meker burner for soft glass, so that is what I named my profile after. The burner I ordered was not what I expected. Your average Bunsen burner would have been better. It would only give me a soft, barely neutral flame, but I expected to get something like the Japanese burners. I decided not to mention it in my previous post because I didn't want anyone to think it would work for them. I would like more information on your burner, though.

Conrad Hoffman
2011-07-09, 7:00am
I had picked up an old Fisher burner, which is the classic Meker type Bunsen burner with about a 1" grid face. I think they're really designed for NG, not propane, unless special ordered. No idea what the difference is since the jet is controlled by a needle valve. Maybe the grid spacing or length is different. Anyway, your description is correct. It has a soft and barely neutral flame- I don't think any burners without pressurized air/oxy supplies can really get to neutral, but since the flame is big and quite hot it's still useful. It will certainly bend tubing and rod for lab glass work, but the flame is too big for precision of any sort. I figure it's good for copper enameling and for getting some big thing up to temperature before introducing it to the oxy torch. It's probably not useful for the typical bead maker.

I also have a Grobet air/fuel torch and though it would be great for jewelry metal work, it's very unimpressive with glass. It's loud and doesn't seem very hot for all the noise it makes. I had talked with ABR about the Japanese air/fuel torches and I think they said that style wasn't well suited to typical US bead and glass work. They look like they'd be good for torched enamel work, but probably overkill. IMO, they look cool.

As for the OP, I also have welding stuff and think it could be a far less expensive solution, given the right tips and running propane instead of acetylene. Due to the ongoing acetylene shortage the local welding shop is stocking more and more propane equipment. They've switched the local scrap yards over to propane for cutting, they carry type T hoses now (for 2X the price of R) and they have many tips and torches for propane. Look, no Oxford comma!

Kyra
2011-11-22, 9:20pm
My mom was one of those boro sculptors who started in the 70s with a national 3a and she still uses one. When I was learning it was on a national 3a without a stand, we just cut a hole in a table and wedged it in tight :P

Working with what you've got will help you figure out what you like and don't like. You can push your tools pretty far with practice. I've been operating my own little glass business off my national so far but a red max is being shipped my way as I type.

I'd love to see pics of how things went for you. I see I'm joining the conversation a little late.

Conrad Hoffman
2011-11-25, 1:19pm
Yes, I'm curious how ELB made out. I was just at the welding dealer the other day and they showed me the catalog of all the various propane tips that are available for welding torches. They're listed under brazing and heating tips, as you can't weld with propane. This is probably a very much under-looked option for glass working but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be just super for lots of different kinds of work. I have my Bullet for most things, not all of which are glass, but right now I'm looking to go smaller. I want to do some small lab work and need a flame maybe 0.1" diameter at most. I'll probably try machining up a special tip for my Grobet, as they supposedly sell a tip to let one use oxy with it- it's normally an air torch.

Mark Parkinson
2011-11-29, 7:27pm
as you can't weld with propane.

thats funny been doing exactly that for years ... as always its about how you use the tools not the tools

VickieLee
2011-11-29, 8:13pm
My mom was one of those boro sculptors who started in the 70s with a national 3a and she still uses one. When I was learning it was on a national 3a without a stand, we just cut a hole in a table and wedged it in tight :P

Working with what you've got will help you figure out what you like and don't like. You can push your tools pretty far with practice. I've been operating my own little glass business off my national so far but a red max is being shipped my way as I type.

I'd love to see pics of how things went for you. I see I'm joining the conversation a little late.

Kyra..
What is your mom's name and where did she work at in the 70's? I started in Jan. 1972 on a National 3a as well. Back then it was a much smaller group of glass people, I was just wondering if I might have come across her work over the years. I just saw one of my old clown lines on Ebay being sold as a RARE collectible...ha ha. Now if that doesn't make a person feel old.
I still have my National torches, but I also have quite a few nice tips for them. Anywhere from 12 to 48 hole tips, if anyone is interested.
Vickie

Kyra
2011-12-18, 12:56am
My mom used to go by something else back then. I forget what it was... Emily maybe? Her name is Cynthia Toffey but some people call her Genn, which is her maiden name. I'm sorry for the confusing answer! She recently moved back to Berkeley, CA from Korea. Back then she worked with Milon Townsend in NYC.

ELB
2011-12-25, 4:54pm
Yes, I'm curious how ELB made out. I was just at the welding dealer the other day and they showed me the catalog of all the various propane tips that are available for welding torches. They're listed under brazing and heating tips, as you can't weld with propane. This is probably a very much under-looked option for glass working but I can't see any reason it wouldn't be just super for lots of different kinds of work. I have my Bullet for most things, not all of which are glass, but right now I'm looking to go smaller. I want to do some small lab work and need a flame maybe 0.1" diameter at most. I'll probably try machining up a special tip for my Grobet, as they supposedly sell a tip to let one use oxy with it- it's normally an air torch.

Hi Conrad,

It's been forever since I've logged into here but it's a good thing because I've been super busy on the torch. Here's the update:

I found a screamin' deal on Glasscraft on a Redmax with a pre-mix top shortly after doing a little more research after posting this thread.
I ended up getting a Glass Hive Short Guy.
Both items paid for itself by the end of this year.
That's pretty much it, so I did not end up going the welding route. The Interchangable tips on the top torch on my Redmax has been very good to me!


Merry Christmas

patienthand
2011-12-30, 6:59am
wow... raising my hand.. another started in the 70s person here

Lorraine Chandler
2011-12-30, 9:44am
I think this quote from Mike is the key phrase...

" And a welding torch does not work well at all for soft glass. For them I use a Nortel major/minor, which is probabily the best buy for the buck in surface mix torches."

So if you want to use boro and a set up like Mikes that would be great but if you want to use soft glass 90 COE and higher then he states a regular lampworking torch is needed.