Regulator/Oxycon help?

[danelady]

Hi Folks, OK Justin got me my oxy con, and I got it set up this weekend. Within an hour of use, it ALSO shows the same symptoms, Cycling of reduction to Oxy flame and back again, every 30 seconds or so. I called Oxygen Plus and they are convinced that a bad PROPANE regulator caused the problem (with BOTH oxycons).

Fine. I went to a local welding shop and bought a new Propane regulator, put it on my propane tank and turned it on. Sprayed all connections with soapy water and VOILA the NEW REGULATOR (not connections) itself leaks EVERYwhere. I put the OLD one back on, NO LEAKS anywhere.

OK so here is my question. I have a very NICE regulator (the original one that is) it's a FIRE POWER. I am returning the defective regulator I just bought, and they don't carry FIREPOWER. Where can I buy that brand and what if after buying a new regulator, (assuming IT doesn't leak) what do I do if I STILL have this Cycling problem at the torch? Arrrgghhh... any ideas out there... PLEASE?
thanks everyone
Lynnie

[Dale M.]

Good quality regulators come with brandnames like HARRIS , VICTOR, SMITH...

These are old names and been around forever.... Quite frankly I never heard of FIRE POWER.... Sound Chinese or India to me.....

Dale

[somberbear]

i like the smiths.

http://store.cyberweld.com/smacreheduhb.html

i like the hard hats you can get for them. and the price at cyber weld is pritty good.
these are old respected names.

oh and yes same smith that makes the little torch ... infact cyber weld sells those too and tips for them.

also remeber to blow out your connections before you put your regulator on. and run your finger inside the tanks fitting and check the nipple on the regulator. make sure there is no debre on the fittings or in teh filter inside the nipple. Then put it on .. if it leaks give it another tighten see if that fixes it. if not take it totaly off and check agian and then put it back on ... some times it will seat differntly in the connection.

rob

[danelady]

Thanks... I appreciate the feedback... bbbbut, the CONNECTIONS are not the issue. The problem was the body of the Regulator leaking!

the FIREPOWER is the regulator I've BEEN using, without problem. The NEW ONE with the name of the store (TriTech) branded on it, that was leaking!

I am changing it out because Oxygen plus fiolks THINK it might be the problem. Any ideas now? Thanks a lot!
Lynniei like the smiths.

http://store.cyberweld.com/smacreheduhb.html

i like the hard hats you can get for them. and the price at cyber weld is pritty good.
these are old respected names.

oh and yes same smith that makes the little torch ... infact cyber weld sells those too and tips for them.

also remeber to blow out your connections before you put your regulator on. and run your finger inside the tanks fitting and check the nipple on the regulator. make sure there is no debre on the fittings or in teh filter inside the nipple. Then put it on .. if it leaks give it another tighten see if that fixes it. if not take it totaly off and check agian and then put it back on ... some times it will seat differntly in the connection.

rob

[pam]

Hi Lynnie, Firepower is the less expensive line of Victor. A lot of people buy the less expensive regulators without realizing that they really, really are not as good, especially at very low pressures, nor do they last as long as name brand regulators that cost more. I am not saying anything about your Firepower regulator, just that perhaps Justin is right. My inclination, were I to buy new regulators, would be to go with a major name brand that has been proven over the years to be accurate even at the lowest pressures and last a long time. My dh calls Firepower a "home-use" regulator.

[danelady]

OK Now that makes sense.. OK where would I find a better regulator? I am not being defensive of the regulator... no emotional attachment honest.. I was trying to explain the issues I was having! thanks so much!
thanks Pam!Hi Lynnie, Firepower is the less expensive line of Victor. A lot of people buy the less expensive regulators without realizing that they really, really are not as good, especially at very low pressures, nor do they last as long as name brand regulators that cost more. I am not saying anything about your Firepower regulator, just that perhaps Justin is right. My inclination, were I to buy new regulators, would be to go with a major name brand that has been proven over the years to be accurate even at the lowest pressures and last a long time. My dh calls Firepower a "home-use" regulator.

[somberbear]

try cyber weld like the link i sent. they have a selection of the three bigs at better then local weld shop prices. like those same smith regs i linked earlier would cost me 200-260 depending on the weld shop i went too... i never trust a place with no price tags.

peace
rob

[JavaGirlBT]

Lynnie, I bought a regulator the other day from Arrow Springs. They sent it priority mail and I had it in two days. I also went to a local welding shop and bought one there because I forgot I could buy one locally until after I had placed the order with AS. I've already sold the one from AS. I was having the same problem as you with the flame "breathing". I went out to the propane regulator and could see the needle surging up and down.

[pam]

Lynnie, You might try your local hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes, but the best place with the most variety is, of course, your welding supply place. I would definitely stay with the major brands, because they have a good reputation for stable flow pressures. My welding shop where I bought my oxy (pre-generator) had prices that were actually less than the local hardware stores. As far as price goes, I would definitely spend more instead of less (not for the same reg, of course). I have heard a lot of complaints from people with surging propane pressures and a lot of the time it is because the less expensive gauges are not designed to operate with such low pressures. They will keep normal pressures within a range, but there is not the necessity for maintaining the exact pressures that we need.

[danelady]

REALLY!!! Thank you Ellen! I was beginning to think I was insane!!!
OK I am ordering one online today, returning the locally purchased one PRAY for me, I need to get torching ! LOL:kiss:

YOU ROCK!
Hugs
LynnieLynnie, I bought a regulator the other day from Arrow Springs. They sent it priority mail and I had it in two days. I also went to a local welding shop and bought one there because I forgot I could buy one locally until after I had placed the order with AS. I've already sold the one from AS. I was having the same problem as you with the flame "breathing". I went out to the propane regulator and could see the needle surging up and down.

[danelady]

HI Pam thanks! I think I'l have to try the online suppliers, (like arrow springs or Cyberweld,) as the locals seem to have JUNK in the low pressure regs! Thank you all!Lynnie, You might try your local hardware store, Home Depot, Lowes, but the best place with the most variety is, of course, your welding supply place. I would definitely stay with the major brands, because they have a good reputation for stable flow pressures. My welding shop where I bought my oxy (pre-generator) had prices that were actually less than the local hardware stores. As far as price goes, I would definitely spend more instead of less (not for the same reg, of course). I have heard a lot of complaints from people with surging propane pressures and a lot of the time it is because the less expensive gauges are not designed to operate with such low pressures. They will keep normal pressures within a range, but there is not the necessity for maintaining the exact pressures that we need.

[Debi]

The prices on Cyberweld look pretty good. I paid $70.00 plus shipping for this Smith regulator from Arrow Springs. Cyberweld's price is $58.10 with free shipping

Smith LP/Acetylene Regulator - Light Duty H1945E


http://store.cyberweld.com/smlpre.html

[Ever After]

what torch are you running?
or did i just miss that?
honestly i use a bbq regulator 2.5 lbs of stable pressure coming out, 5lbs oxy con, and havnt had one problem, now of course if i wanted to work boro, i wouldnt get enough propane, however, id need two oxy cons too so im told,,?

[kbinkster]

I would bump the pressure up and see if that helps. The increased pressure will be good for your regulator and probably stop the wide fluctuations. The only effect it will have on your torch is that your needle valve control will be touchier.

Arrow Springs recommends that you set your propane regulator to 10-15 psi.

It does not matter whether you are running a tank or a concentrator. The needle valves on your torch control what gets to the torch. The oxygen pressure is independant from the propane pressure. The 2:1 or 3:1 ratio of pressures is suggested because if you were to operate with your valves wide open, you would have the right ratio of oxygen to propane. But, for beadmaking, we seldom, if ever, use the valves wide open.

So, you can run the higher pressures through the regulator for better regulator performance, but you do not have to run that much propane through your torch: you just turn the needle valves to get the amount of gas to your torch that you want.

[danelady]

UPDATE on the post below, and I REALLY REALLY need help please. This problem is seriously crippling my ability to torch.

OK I did all the things everyone told me, Changed out the Regulator (for the 3rd time), Changed the propane pressure settings. Changed the Oxycon (twice), Changed the Oxycon lpm settings. Bought a NEW Oxycon from Justin (thank you Justin and Larry), BORROWED another Oxycon from Shawnette (thank you sweetie) and STILL have my original one.

EVERY time I torch, by the time the torch has been running for about 1.5 to 2 hours, the flame begins it's funky thing. It cycles to a reducing flame, then back to neutral (where I have it set of course) about every 30 seconds or so (it's a BITCH when you are working with rubino or another reducing glass). I have tried EVERY Oxycon I have here, no matter which I use, the problem still occurs.

The ONLY thing I haven't changed is my Torch (minor 1.5 years old), the propane tank, and propane/oxy hoses (I have tested for leaks, there are none)

Here is my LATEST thought: Can the TORCH be getting so HOT that the propane VALVE in the torch can cause this?

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPP Please LOL:wtf:
Thanks
Lynnie

*******************************

Hi Folks, OK Justin got me my oxy con, and I got it set up this weekend. Within an hour of use, it ALSO shows the same symptoms, Cycling of reduction to Oxy flame and back again, every 30 seconds or so. I called Oxygen Plus and they are convinced that a bad PROPANE regulator caused the problem (with BOTH oxycons).

Fine. I went to a local welding shop and bought a new Propane regulator, put it on my propane tank and turned it on. Sprayed all connections with soapy water and VOILA the NEW REGULATOR (not connections) itself leaks EVERYwhere. I put the OLD one back on, NO LEAKS anywhere.

OK so here is my question. I have a very NICE regulator (the original one that is) it's a FIRE POWER. I am returning the defective regulator I just bought, and they don't carry FIREPOWER. Where can I buy that brand and what if after buying a new regulator, (assuming IT doesn't leak) what do I do if I STILL have this Cycling problem at the torch? Arrrgghhh... any ideas out there... PLEASE?
thanks everyone
Lynnie

[JavaGirlBT]

Wow, what a pain. I think if the only thing you haven't changed is the torch - change it and see. At this point you have done everything else humanly possible to fix it. Does someone close by have one you could borrow?

[pam]

Lynnie, The only thing I can think of at this point is that you are using too much oxy and running the concentrator out of oxygen before it has a chance to build up the flow again. Have you tried hooking two of those concentrators you have together and giving yourself 10 lpm instead of the 5 from one concentrator. For several years I tried to find a concentrator/generator that would run my torch and every time I tried one I ran it out of oxygen. If you are running it out of oxy, then you would have this problem, I think. That is my best guess. I'm sorry you are having such problems. Everyone can do whatever type work they want using tanked oxy, but when you have a concentrator/generator, you really have to learn how to work within the confines of the oxy supply you have. If I was you, I would try working a little slower, using a little less oxy and see if that helps. If it does, then perhaps if you hook two together you will have sufficient supply. Does that all make sense, I hope?

[danelady]

I WISH! I poisted this in the FL threads too, I am really frustrated...sighWow, what a pain. I think if the only thing you haven't changed is the torch - change it and see. At this point you have done everything else humanly possible to fix it. Does someone close by have one you could borrow?

[danelady]

Pam that makes sense, i THINK, but why suddenly have this problem after a year of not havong it? I didn't change anything. Well maybe ONE thing, I work for longer periods of time than I used to (3-4 hours)

How do I connect them together please?
THANK YOU@
Lynnie, The only thing I can think of at this point is that you are using too much oxy and running the concentrator out of oxygen before it has a chance to build up the flow again. Have you tried hooking two of those concentrators you have together and giving yourself 10 lpm instead of the 5 from one concentrator. For several years I tried to find a concentrator/generator that would run my torch and every time I tried one I ran it out of oxygen. If you are running it out of oxy, then you would have this problem, I think. That is my best guess. I'm sorry you are having such problems. Everyone can do whatever type work they want using tanked oxy, but when you have a concentrator/generator, you really have to learn how to work within the confines of the oxy supply you have. If I was you, I would try working a little slower, using a little less oxy and see if that helps. If it does, then perhaps if you hook two together you will have sufficient supply. Does that all make sense, I hope?

[kbinkster]

Here is my LATEST thought: Can the TORCH be getting so HOT that the propane VALVE in the torch can cause this?
No, BUT it is possible that the torch could have a tiny leak inside. It could heat up just enough to open up a crack, allowing premixing. Premixing can cause a reduction flame.

[kbinkster]

Lynnie, The only thing I can think of at this point is that you are using too much oxy and running the concentrator out of oxygen before it has a chance to build up the flow again. Have you tried hooking two of those concentrators you have together and giving yourself 10 lpm instead of the 5 from one concentrator. For several years I tried to find a concentrator/generator that would run my torch and every time I tried one I ran it out of oxygen. If you are running it out of oxy, then you would have this problem, I think. That is my best guess. I'm sorry you are having such problems. Everyone can do whatever type work they want using tanked oxy, but when you have a concentrator/generator, you really have to learn how to work within the confines of the oxy supply you have. If I was you, I would try working a little slower, using a little less oxy and see if that helps. If it does, then perhaps if you hook two together you will have sufficient supply. Does that all make sense, I hope?

I had typed my reply and got busy with other stuff before sending it, so I didn't see your post, Pam, until later.

This makes a lot of sense! I would think that this would more likely be the problem than a leak like I described.

[Justin L]

I can vouch for my machine and say that they run at least 8 hours straight after the rebuild process. At that time if they are not putting out at least 94% Oxygen, they do not go out.

If there was a case of shipping damage causing a loss of O2, I doubt it would wait 3-4 hours to show up.

[tasminann]

Connecting 2 or more oxycons is pretty easy -- you just need a "Y" connector. Bet Justin has one for sale (I got my last one from him, works like a charm).

[bhhco]

Perhaps the propane tank? A BBQ tank?

The OPD equipped BBQ tanks have had flow problems - even on BBQ grills, and coupled with standard regulator droop and drop, tank pressure changes, and the tank valve position sensitivity of the OPD, this could cause the surging.

Turn the regulator to zero psi.
Disconnect the regulator from the "bad" tank.
S l o w l y make the connection to a "good" tank (slowly tighten the coupler into the tank's valve).
S l o w l y open the propane tank valve - only 1/2 turn, no more.
Turn the regulator up (s l o w l y) to your working pressure.
Go to work.

If after you light the torch the working pressure on the regulator immediately droops (likely), increase the regulator PSI to your standard working pressure.

BH

[danelady]

This is interesting... I don't quite understand your instructions below, but I HAVE been wondering if my tank is the problem. I will take it to Lowes tomorrow and exchange it for a new one. If I need more help after I get it, I'll PM you, THANKS!!Perhaps the propane tank? A BBQ tank?

The OPD equipped BBQ tanks have had flow problems - even on BBQ grills, and coupled with standard regulator droop and drop, tank pressure changes, and the tank valve position sensitivity of the OPD, this could cause the surging.

Turn the regulator to zero psi.
Disconnect the regulator from the "bad" tank.
S l o w l y make the connection to a "good" tank (slowly tighten the coupler into the tank's valve).
S l o w l y open the propane tank valve - only 1/2 turn, no more.
Turn the regulator up (s l o w l y) to your working pressure.
Go to work.

If after you light the torch the working pressure on the regulator immediately droops (likely), increase the regulator PSI to your standard working pressure.

BH

[danelady]

Larry has agreed to send me one posthaste!Connecting 2 or more oxycons is pretty easy -- you just need a "Y" connector. Bet Justin has one for sale (I got my last one from him, works like a charm).

[danelady]

It makes sense Pam, But Larry & Justin have been handholding me thru this whole thing, and I have to tell you, at this point I REALLy doubt it is the concentrators. Shawnette mailed me HERS to try and when I used IT today, I am STILL having problems. Larry had me pull my backflash arrestor out of the propane line today, and i am STILL having issues. Nest ste is switching out the Propane tank. After THAT, I will just have to slice my throat LOL

Lynnie, The only thing I can think of at this point is that you are using too much oxy and running the concentrator out of oxygen before it has a chance to build up the flow again. Have you tried hooking two of those concentrators you have together and giving yourself 10 lpm instead of the 5 from one concentrator. For several years I tried to find a concentrator/generator that would run my torch and every time I tried one I ran it out of oxygen. If you are running it out of oxy, then you would have this problem, I think. That is my best guess. I'm sorry you are having such problems. Everyone can do whatever type work they want using tanked oxy, but when you have a concentrator/generator, you really have to learn how to work within the confines of the oxy supply you have. If I was you, I would try working a little slower, using a little less oxy and see if that helps. If it does, then perhaps if you hook two together you will have sufficient supply. Does that all make sense, I hope?

[danelady]

Hi Justin, At this point I pretty much doubt the probem lies with ANY of the 3 concentrators. I have used them ALL, and the same thing is happening no matter which I use. You guys have been just AWESOME and I have to say your customer service is BEYOND anything I could have EVER expected! THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!I can vouch for my machine and say that they run at least 8 hours straight after the rebuild process. At that time if they are not putting out at least 94% Oxygen, they do not go out.

If there was a case of shipping damage causing a loss of O2, I doubt it would wait 3-4 hours to show up.

[JavaGirlBT]

Lynnie, I have a minor I'm not using so if you can't find another torch locally, you can borrow mine if you want. I'm hoping the tank is the problem and everything will be OK after this try. But if you want to use the minor you may.

[bhhco]

This is interesting... I don't quite understand your instructions below, but I HAVE been wondering if my tank is the problem. I will take it to Lowes tomorrow and exchange it for a new one. If I need more help after I get it, I'll PM you, THANKS!!


Sorry... I should have taken the time to explain why I used s l o w l y so much. First, in case I alarmed you (if so, my error),this not a safety issue - it's a "get a good flow going issue".

Some of the Overfilling Protection Devices - OPD (and I use that term to generically refer to the entire valve/flowlimit/OPD/press-release system encompassed on/in as a unit part of the BBQ tank) have been "sensitive" to rapid changes, i.e., rapid connection, rapid valve opening, rapid pressure adjustment, etc.. That is... the OPD can limit/stop/surge the flow, when that is the last thing we want it to do.

These OPD equiped tank valves are made all over the world and there is bound to be a few in the system that are just plane flakey. Maybe a lot. You can guess how inexpensively these combo-valves must be made if they are included on a tank sold for $30... the machining and parts mating inside the OPD may leave a little to be desired. Again, not a safety issue - only a functional reliability issue. That's why I emphasized using a slow hand.

Bill

edited typs/grammar