Glasscraft upgrade???? What do I do next?

[Dasi]

I spent 2 hours in Grainger today. I took pictures of my set up and measurments of the duct work. I also took printouts of different blowers from their site to purchase.

I have been suffering from severe bronchitis over and over that lasts for weeks at a time. I have 3 days of more tests coming up this week since a lung CAT came back with some questionable spots.... It show severe recurring bronchitis. THIS is why I need a good system at any cost!!!!!

So back to today. After 2 hours I still have not purchased anything. I also spent 1 hour with a heat and air man this past Sunday. He told me what blower to purchase. BUT the problem is what to use to connect to get the hood to connect with the blower. How can you go from 11" square to 10" round? ETC. The choices of blowers did not match the 10" duct that the hood has. I told them I would purchase whatever it took. Sell me the duct work that will work with 10" or tell me how to change the 10' to anything that will connect with the blowers that can handle the job.....

So does anyone have a solution to this? I had planned on dropping $571 on a good blower but the unit would just not connect to 10" duct.

HELP! Who knows about all this? I am not asking about the ventilation but how to get the blower in line with the duct work. Grainger could not put something together for me. Neither could 3 of the A/C customers that came in and took a look to help.

73588
The pipe goes up 5 feet into the attic and over 7 feet then down 2 feet to vent out on a porch just to the right of the work bench. I added a second inline fan in the attic to add to the ventilation. The make up air is a large window on the opposite wall. It is just behind me as I sit at the torch.

Can anyone tell me what to do next? What blower will move the air flow I need with the 3 bends?

[Dale M.]

The glasscraft hood requires a minimum of 700CFM (single fan), 850-900CFM would be better.... You need to do away with the extra footage in flex duct... You should take vent duct out nearest wall, shortest path possible (even cutting hole in wall). and it should be rigid wall (smooth) steel duct..... The added in line fan in duct was a exercise in futility... Also consider ever turn in duct reduces ventilation efficiency and I count three turns by your description. Also hood should be lower, to point where you almost bump your head on it when working at torch..

The fan in the Glasscraft hood is only really rated at 210cfm. I know their catalog says (or used to say) 650CFM but that is when the fans is used in a duct system as a booster fan not as initial fan in system (fan manufacturers specifications) .... This is about 1/4 the needed capacity, and putting booster fan in duct may have added some boost but you are way below the actual needed CFM to be safe....

As for connecting it all up, any local sheet metal (HVAC) shop can make any adapters you need to connect all the components together.


Dale

[Dasi]

The wall you see in the picture has a large garage on the other side. To the right is a door to the outside and brick walls...... I hate the idea of just going sideways and hacking away at the brick above the door.
I do have 3 bends. The flex duct you see is the only part that is the flex stuff. As soon as the duct hits the ceiling and bends in the attic, the rest is rigid wall (smooth) steel duct.

These are the units I was going to have put in the attic just after the bend. The AC guy thought these units would work.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/7M7R5

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/7M7R4

Grainger said I should use this unit. The 11" opening. I am thinking of going up and out the roof but that also is a big mess.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/catalogPDF.shtml

do you think one unit would work better then the other? I know squirel cages were mentioned but which one?

I wish glasscraft would just come up with a solution to the hood I purchased from them. I tried to upgrade it by adding a second inline fan but that has not really done anything to help. I just recently took the baffles off from around the 2 sides. The kiln is on the third side.

[hotflashwanda]

I agree with what Dale said. You need to lower the hood, and get rid of the bends in your ducting. I have the same Glasscraft hood with one fan, ducted straight out the wall and it works very well. My lungs are very sensitive to fumes, as I am asthmatic--and I've never had any problems from torching.
Anita
www.fireflybeads.com

[Dale M.]

I hesitate to recommend a specific fan/blower.... Your HVAC guy should be able to help you determine this.... He should know the formulas, and he needs to calculate the "static pressures" in system based on duct type, number of turns and how duct is terminated on end, such as screen or louvers...

I do think there is lesser expensive fans available than the one's you show that are just as effective.

IF you need to mention to him, we are using Class "A" industrial fume hood specification here....

Dale

[Dasi]

My table is 37" off the ground. My hood is 20" above the table. Not an inch more. I bump my head all the time. That is why the towels are taped on the hood. I could not get the hood any lower withouth it being below eye sight..... for working.

I tried it at 18" and I could not see my work station. If the table were any higher the torch would be too high and I would working at neck level.

[Dale M.]

My table is 37" off the ground. My hood is 20" above the table. Not an inch more. I bump my head all the time. That is why the towels are taped on the hood. I could not get the hood any lower withouth it being below eye sight..... for working.

I tried it at 18" and I could not see my work station. If the table were any higher the torch would be too high and I would working at neck level.

Ok... That's good.... Could not tell by picture alone...

Dale

[Diane (clarus)]

Heather, another thing that would help is to put side baffles on your hood, basically creating a 3-sided enclosure. That also helps trap more fumes. You can make one out of sheets of steel from Home Depot/Lowes and either rivet or use foil tape to attach it to your hood and bench.

By the way, your floral vessels are gorgeous :-)

-Diane

[Dasi]

This should give you an idea of how little room I actually have between the table and hood. Not good for your posture.... But....

I had baffles but they kept getting in the way when I pulled points.... I needed to keep the glass in the flame a long time since I don't have a huge flame. I had no room when the baffles were up.... drove me crazy. always in the way and I wanted my kiln near...
Anyway.... here is a view of how little clearance I actually have.
74127

[Glasscraft Technical]

Hello Heather!

After looking at the picture of your hood setup, I strongly urge you to have Rich Hoyt speak with you about your setup. You have received a lot of good advice from other posters on LE and I applaud them. Please know that Glasscraft is more than willing to help you get the problem resolved. Dale M is correct about the turns and so forth.

I saw that you purchased your hood in 2004 and it appears that you have done some modifications to meet your space, but not your needs for ventilation. Please do call Rich, he will help you get it modified to meet your needs.

[bgurden]

i have the glasscraft hood and had some issues. rich was more than willing to help me with them. it is my understanding that the fan has been upgraded recently.
i have one question where is your fresh air coming from?

[RSimmons]

I got an extension piece for the center of my Glasscraft hood and ran solid duct up from the middle. I also got a bigger blower and it is mounted in a box (vacuum plenum) above the hood and vents out the roof, all sheet metal ducting. I also added baffles across the back and sides extending down to the table top (about 22"). The extra width gives me room to work on most anything under the hood.

Robert

[Glasscraft Technical]

The one thing that is most often forgotten or overlooked with regard to hoods and ventilation is that everyone has different spaces, but it seems that most people expect an off the shelf solution for very little money. Glasscraft has attempted to make something available that is relatively simple to setup, inexpensive and helps many (but not all) people solve their ventilation problems. It was never touted as the one and only solution for everyone's needs. We encourage anyone who has questions to contact us so that we can assist you to get the right solution for your needs. Many times Rich has not recommended our hood at all after seeing pictures of an artist's studio setup.

[Hayley]

I did speak with Rich before I purchased the system.

What bothered me was that when I got your system a year ago, the fan was stated as 650 CFM . . . you have since changed that to 450 CFM. I understand the actual CFM is dependent on the set up but you provided Flex Ducting which in effect lowers the CFM tremendously. I used rigid ducting myself.

Bottomline, when you realized your mistake in stating the fan being 650 CFM . . . you made NO attempt to notify past customers and warned them of the change. By providing flex ducting, someone who purchased your system thinking that it would provide 650 CFM was in effect getting only 250. That to me is irresponsible - and it has nothing to do with different spaces.

[Cherine Perrin]

I did speak with Rich before I purchased the system.

What bothered me was that when I got your system a year ago, the fan was stated as 650 CFM . . . you have since changed that to 450 CFM. I understand the actual CFM is dependent on the set up but you provided Flex Ducting which in effect lowers the CFM tremendously. I used rigid ducting myself.

Bottomline, when you realized your mistake in stating the fan being 650 CFM . . . you made NO attempt to notify past customers and warned them of the change. By providing flex ducting, someone who purchased your system thinking that it would provide 650 CFM was in effect getting only 250. That to me is irresponsible - and it has nothing to do with different spaces.


You have said it right Hayley. I have a glasscraft hood and felt like I was misled.

[Hayley]

Cherine - did you change your fan? I am in the process of doing so - am looking at one that's 790 CFM which is what the hood needs with baffles/enclosure in place.

If not for this forum, I would still be oblivious to the fact that I am putting my health at stake by trusting a supplier who is supposedly active in our industry/community!

[Cherine Perrin]

Yes, I am getting some bids on building a studio in part of my basement. Once I have the bids in I'm gonna contact an HVAC guy to properly install a new fan into the Glasscraft hood. All that is way too technical for me too figure out. I'm also thinking that about 700CFM or better is what I need. As far as the baffles, I'm thinking sheet metal, how about you?

[Hayley]

My friend Diane/clarus has a Vortex Powerfan - I plan on getting a 10" one that's 790 CFM to replace the current one in the Glasscraft hood (do you know that the current fan retails for under $40? I don't feel bad throwing it away! lol!)

I have a piece of sheet metal with two bends as my baffles/enclosure and just taped to the hood. Works perfectly!

Good luck on your studio renovation!

[Diane (clarus)]

Yes, I have the 8" Vortex Powerfan attached to my homemade steel hood - it works very well. Having seen Hayley's existing setup I know that the suction from the original fan in her Glasscraft hood isn't nearly as strong as mine, so I'm confident swapping her's out with the 10" Vortex will work very well. Adding the baffles to the side really is necessary to contain all of the fumes generated by the torch/glass/etc. so it can be evacuated properly. FYI, the suction from mine is plenty strong enough to suck up all the fumes (having done multiple smoke/incense tests) yet I haven't had any trouble with it sucking up powdered frit or silver leaf. It also sucks up little bugs that decide to fly into the hood area - not a problem right now that it's colder, but during the summer it would happen occasionally.

Hayley - are you going to put the fan where the current one sits right next to the hood, or are you going to move it down to the end of the duct run? It's a very quiet fan - all I hear is the sound of air moving, so either way it won't be much more if any more noise than your current setup. My oxycon is way more noisy than the fan. Plus you know how noisy a Hot Head can be, so the fan/oxycon combo is nothing compared to that!

-Diane

[bgurden]

i am also upgrading my glasscraft hood with a 10 inch vortex fan. the fan comes with a powercord in place. bought in on ebay for 229.00. it appears that those involved in the hydroponic growth of certain plants have this fan thing figured out! i only have about 4 feet of duct work but do have 2 bends in it in order to avoid the electrical in my garage when venting out.. i am switching over to rigid duct. i have bought plexiglass to attach to the hood in order to enclose. i did not want sheet metal as it would be too claustrophobic.
i do think the glasscraft hood is very well made. i do know that they have switched out the fan in the current model. i do not however think that they have switched to the vortex fan. it would be a nice option for them to buy sans fan or to offer the vortex fan.
total cost approx 600 dollars with the upgraded fan.

[Cat]

I have to agree with Hayley. I shop with Glasscraft on a regular basis and have been more than happy with the service, but I purchased my hood setup in the summer/fall of 2006 and I'm extremely unhappy that what I purchased was not what was stated as far as fan specs - especially for the money I spent on it.

In a post of mine several months ago, I posted that the fan had actual 250cfm - definitely NOT what was stated in the catalog. I ran a search for the fan that comes with the system and it does sell for around $35 and is completely useless. I basically ended up with a metal vent hood for about $400 since the fan had to be replaced. It would be nice to get some kind of compensation since I did NOT get what I was told I was paying for as far as CFMs. If anything, how about a credit for the cost of the fan, which ended up in the garbage? Converting this hood to be able to use it with another fan that will fit the pre-cut holes is not easy - there are not many choices of fans to pick from that can hook up to this unit. And to have to spend my time and money to get this fan up to the specs that it was stated to have seems wrong.

[Dale M.]

Hmmm... Really disappointed that "Glasscraft" chooses not to participate in forum and at least try to defend their product and design criteria.... Guess their focus is not in lampworkers safety, but how much money the can make....

Dale

[KEW]

I would send off an email to Ofilia Cinta or Mike Aurelius who both have the kind of set up that vents directly in front of the torch and the make-up air comes from underneath the bench. (no hood - a designated scoop sort of thing)

If I ever get the chance for a completely autonomous setup that's the way I intend to go. Hopefully with the noisy exhaust fan located outside.

[Dale M.]

And I sort of document it here....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=150

Dale

[botree]

Kind of late to be posting on this thread, but I want to say that I have never been sure that the hood concept is the only, nor is it the best way to "clear the air". KEW post #23 mentioned the intake in front of the torch. The set up I have put together has two
14"X6" floor registers, the kind that has the A/C or heat coming out. Because of the shape they are actually a little larger than 84sq inches. The two use flex duct to a TEE which goes thru the wall right into a 90° turn down 30" to another 90° turn horizontal about 18" into a wooden box which contains a squirrel cage blower. This arrangement gives me an output of almost 850cfm. I had to put 1/8" hardware cloth (screen) in the two openings to keep from sucking the torch and us out of the shop. The box is sitting under a roof which is over my lumber storage area so it is protected from the sun and other weather related problems.
These hoods seem iffy to me tho' I have never seen one in use. As a matter of fact the two classes I have taken so far had no provisions for ventilation other than open windows and one of them had twelve students (13) torches.
Not to make light of safety, but it seems to me that by the time the fumes, etc. get to the fan in the hood they have been exposed to enough ambient air to have dissipated somewhat.
FIRE AT WILL! LMAO

[Dale M.]

. As a matter of fact the two classes I have taken so far had no provisions for ventilation other than open windows and one of them had twelve students (13) torches.
Not to make light of safety, but it seems to me that by the time the fumes, etc. get to the fan in the hood they have been exposed to enough ambient air to have dissipated somewhat.
FIRE AT WILL! LMAO

Just because someone chooses to teach classes does not make them knowledgeable in the dangers of a unsafe condition in a studio....

There is a lot of ignorance out there when it comes to safety...

I notice you seem to be asking some questions that seem to point out you are not satisfied with some things you see in various studios...

Dale

[Bobeche]

Hello,

My wife is a lamp worker and we are reading about fan/hood design problems. She asked me to recheck the CFM of her hood. We have a Fr 250 fan tech fan.
This fan will operate @ 0 static 649 CFM. Ours is operating at .2 static with a 600 CFM output.
To find out what the actual static is you need to do some tests with a manometer. A qualified HVAC service tech should have the tools.
Before one purchases a fan you should have an idea on what amount of static you are running. All vent designs are different and need to be treated as such. One type of fan might work for one vent set up and not for another.
I have 25 years experience in the HVAC commercial and residential industry. I've serviced and installed all types of vent systems.

Hopefully some of this information helps questions are welcome,
Karl

[SheilaM]

FYI-
Fume hood manufacturing companies sell the transition piece. from round to square,
square to round...etc..10", 12", whatever you need.
any sheet metal place will build it for $50.00 to $75.00...not a big deal.

Karl- up there seems to know what he is talking about too.
You have to set the entire system up, then determine what fan you need.
If you are trying to figure out the calculations for the stattic pressure, or cfm...
Fume hood manufacturers often have the math equasions available on their sites.

After 9-1/2 years in the science industry, dealing with fume hood and HVAC engineers....I can tell you it is always this complicated. Very rarely does a system that is not built yet, get calculated right. And the sad part, 99% of the time, people blame the problem on the canopy hood or the fume hood. And, just so you know, it is ALWAYS! the fan to blame. But the guy that sells the hood gets the blame.

Do not blame Rich at Glasscraft, he is selling you what you are asking for.
The fans does what they say they will do, IF YOU HAVE THE CORRECT make up air. If you don't, the fan is not going to do what you need.

Yup! It really just is that way. A room that is 800 cubic feet and a room that is 1600 cubic feet
needs a different situation. The fans do the same thing. Except one room runs out of air quicker than the other. No air = no exhaust.

REMEMBER- at least 60% of your air in the room needs to be replaced from an outside source- in a science lab. Glass should be the same; in my opinion....I have not read that anywhere. NOBODY wants to be responsible.

When you order a fan, you do not mention that you have two ceiling fans, and a bathroom fan on. Those things change the amount of air moving out. EVERYTHING changes. If you crack a window and the wind is sucking the air out.
If you do not have any make up air, you are not moving any air....

It really is that complicated.

You need make up air. YOU DO NOT WANT to create a back draft with your furnace, or a candle burning, or a fireplace (yup!)...
If you do not have make up air, that can be a bad problem. Add air should be 10' away from the exhaust.

Since I am in Michigan, I balance my entire house. cracking windows here and there.
Depending on the wind, the weather, my situation changes all the time.
The only thing I ALWAYS do is add air to my furnace. I open the window next to the furnace. I make sure no back draft is happening....I want to be sure the furnace fan is not pulling my gasses in the air, and I need to be sure my exhaust fan is not pulling on my furnace exhaust (fumes/ back draft)

Do you have a lot of stattic electricity going on? That is a sign of not enough make up air.

hope this helps somebody. I quit that job, I know way to much not to
ever talk about it.
Good luck.

[Hayley]

Do not blame Rich at Glasscraft, he is selling you what you are asking for.
The fans does what they say they will do, IF YOU HAVE THE CORRECT make up air. If you don't, the fan is not going to do what you need.


I beg to differ . . . when I bought my hood WITH the fan, it was listed as a 650 CFM fan (and I spoke with Rich about it). And until recently its website listed it as a 470 CFM fan. Some of us checked the manufacturer of the fan and found that the model fan on my hood is 650 CFM if used as a booster . . . and it's only 250 CFM on its own.

Glasscraft sold a lot of ventilation systems that are NOT safe!!!!! Was any of us ever told that? NO!! Other companies have to do recalls when they mess up . . . Glasscraft continues on without taking any responsibilities on jeopardizing all its ventilation system customers' health!

By the way, it has FINALLY changed its website (probably after reading this threads) – there is NO indication of fan CFM on its site now.

It sold many of us this system with above mentioned fan and flex ducting for, if memory serves, for $375 . . . we all know that the flex ducting is USELESS (I told them not to bother shipping mine) and the fan only costs $30 retail . . . now it's selling the hood itself without ducting and fan for $235 . . . WHAT DID I PAY THE ADDITIONAL $140 FOR?

[cheeky monkey]

I have a Glasscraft fan and pretty much did the same. Dumped the flex tubing, changed to a nice big furnace blower, added intake air, and so the only remaining piece is the hood! I could have made my own very easily. Oh well...... hope a few other new people learn from our mistakes!

[SheilaM]

Okay, I didn't know about the fan. Some how that went over my head.
If they are selling a fan that does notmeet the specs they say it does;
that IS wrong!

Sorry you all had to deal with that.
My system gows straight out, no duct; no stattic pressure, and it passes all the tests.
I suppose if I had ducting, it would not work right.

Perhaps they should refund some people; for the fan?

[Hayley]

Okay, I didn't know about the fan. Some how that went over my head.
If they are selling a fan that does notmeet the specs they say it does;
that IS wrong!

Sorry you all had to deal with that.
My system gows straight out, no duct; no stattic pressure, and it passes all the tests.
I suppose if I had ducting, it would not work right.

Perhaps they should refund some people; for the fan?

That's ok, Sheila - you didn't know. Sorry if I was a bit irate over your original statement . . . I am continually upset by how a supposedly reputable company like Glasscraft can be so cavalier about people's health. I did everything right in setting up my system . . . but made a mistake in trusting that Glasscraft sold me a 650 CFM fan. If not for this forum, and what others have posted, I would never know and will continue to put my health in jeopardy without knowing that I am using a system that is NOT effective.

[evolvingBeau]

Hmm, glad I finally saw this thread.
I'm another sucker that went for the Glasscraft hood..total BS.
Before I even bought it I knew that I would have to scrap the corrugated ducting for rigid which I did.
I even did calculations based on their website specs that told me it would be decent. Even if it were 650CFM it's still isn't ideal so I knew that I would need to get a new fan. I have since learned more and realize that I'm going to need to totally re-do my whole ventilation setup to have things on the up and up.
I've just been stewing about this, but I'll add to the discontent here.
If you're going to sell something that is this important for a persons well being, it really should be advertised properly or not sold at all.
I wish I would have just paid to have one custom built, probably would have been cheaper in the end..