What can I mix enamel powder with to paint on beads?

[Moth]

I've been to Deborah Read's site and she uses squeegee oil. I looked that up and realize what it is.

I've also seen mention of mixing the enamel powder with sprite or 7up for a water-based 'paint'.

From reading the description of the squeegee oil, one of the other applications is to paint the squeegee oil onto the piece, sifting the dry enamel powder down onto it, and then you can tap off the excess and it will only stick where the squeegee oil is painted.

Question: Fusers use regular elmers glue to secure pieces together before fusing because it burns off clear. Why couldn't I mix the enamel powder with plain elmer's glue, OR paint the piece lightly with glue, sprinkle with enamel powder, then tap off the excess then fire? Is it going to bubble up and not leave a smooth surface?

I plan on experimenting with this, but if someone has any experience here that will help me, that's great. Main issue is that I want to do it right now so I'm looking for a household product I could mix my enamel powder with so I don't have to wait for china paints or squeegee oil to be shipped.

Thanks!
~~Mary

[evolvingBeau]

Not entirely sure what the appeal was, I think it burns clean..but when I helped with a class on the subject we used Lavender oil..

[Moth]

I've got hemp oil...think that would work?

[Moth]

Thanks Beau, that is helpful. I think I just might have some of that around here somewhere from when I was making burn balm.

[evolvingBeau]

If you check out this page at Thompson..
http://www.thompsonenamel.com/products/supplements/materials3.htm
and scroll down you'll see that they list "oil of lavender" stating that it's for details...
I think it's because it's thicker AND also fires clean..never used squeegee oil so I can't attest to the difference..

[Moth]

Yeah, the hemp oil is very thin...I know I have some oil of clove around here...I used it for a toothache and the thompson site says it is for washes and that would be fine if I mixed it pretty thick. I'm only trying to outline a silhouette, then fill it in all with black.

[ziggys]

Hi Mary, Sorry, but I have not tried using glue to hold enamels in place. :( I loved using enamels with fusing but have only sifted it over a stencil praying it wouldn't move. :)

Elmers School Blue Gel is highly recommended for fusing FWIW. Of course I've used plain old Elmers and hairspray with no problems either.
I have heard of using 7-up to paint with also, and an essential oil, but I can't remember which one.
Hopefully someone else will chime in. I sure would like to know if it would work!

[ziggys]

That was it! Lavender Oil! I wondered why I had that around, (and pitched it later).

[IF-Designs]

you could also try watering down the elmers and mixing the enamel with it and painting it...
ive done fused pieces where i used pigment based inks to grab the enamel and then fired it and the design stayed really nicely...I was using rubber stamps though to get a patterned effect....stamped the glass with the pigmented ink then sifted the enamel onto it and then tapped it off and cleaned up the image area and fired it...im sure something similar would work just fine.

[vichall]

The clove oil works nicely but is thin. Add a few drops of lavender oil if you have it to help it stick better. Try it with a nib pen for outlines.

Are you using regular Moretti enamels? They are rather coarse for painting. 80 mesh I think. 300 mesh enamels such as FuseMaster are much finer.

Vickie

[evolvingBeau]

I've got hemp oil...think that would work?

Maybe..just make sure the neighbors know what you're doing when you fire up the kiln :rolleyes:.. try anything once right?
Seriously though if you have both the hemp and oil of lavender you could always do a side-by-side experiment..
Also there was a thing (the name evades me now) that was essentially a large glass handle with a maria on the end, the face of the maria was ground flat to a 60-80 grit polish, we would place a small amount of enamel on a sheet of glass, then add a bit of the oil and use flat side of the glass "thing" to thouroughly mix the enamel and oil into a uniform emulsion...not entirely necessary by any means but very effective. Many ways to accomplish the same...one of the tiny porcelain apothecary mortar/pestles is a great way to do it..
You can loosely blend colors much like oil painting for unique variegated brush strokes also...
Also, I think we used either Spray-A or A-1 Klyr-Fire for air-brushed enamel work..
Have fun!

[Toni Lutman]

I took a mixed media class a few years ago, and I seem to remember using poppy seed oil.

[Moth]

Preliminary results are in. Of course, these were rough experiments done on split pieces of scrap glass.

#1- I mixed enamel powder and elmers white glue to a paste consistency and then added in just enough more glue to make it paintable with a brush. I placed the painted piece on my hot plate to bring it up to 750 degree, put it into a 940 degree kiln, then ramped the kiln up to 1400. As soon as it hit 1400 I vented the kiln. When the kiln was back down to 940, I took out the piece to look at it. The enamel was shiny, the glue looked like it was gone. The painted area was not really what I was after though. It looked like I had used puffy fabric paint.

#2- Did the same thing, except instead of mixing the glue and enamel, I painted the glue on, sprinkled on the enamel (I wear a respirator for this whole deal) then baked it just like the first one. This one never got shiny. Maybe I need to take the kiln higher, but basically I just wanted to see if I could get the glue to burn out.

Both of these glass pieces were allowed to cool, then I hit them lightly with a hammer to see if the enamel would come off. It did. Apparently this proves I didn't get the glass hot enough for long enough to fuse it together. Doesn't matter because I don't like how the glue worked anyway.

#3- Mixed enamel with hemp oil. The oil was very thin. It wasn't strong enough to suspend enough enamel particles to give complete coverage and frankly, I don't want to have to paint the things 3 times. I didn't even bother to fire that one.

After reading what Vickie has said about the enamels being too large a mesh, I'm inclined to agree even though I don't know what I'm doing. I think I could get it to work with the right technique and carrier, but it would take multiple firings, something I'm not wanting to do for such a simple result as what I'm looking for.

The 300 mesh enamel sounds better, more of a pigment consistency which is what I'm more used to mixing.

Don't think I'm going to be painting any beads tonight. LOL

If I have to order stuff to do this, I'm more inclined to order a finished product that I can just paint on, rather than mixing it myself. Guess I have more research to do. LOL

I'm off to look at china paints, ceramic over glazes and porcelain paints. Some of it even comes in pen form. Hmmmmm.

Thanks for all the input and help you guys. I really appreciate it.

I just didn't have what I needed.
~~Mary

[CO_Phantom]

Squeegee oil smells nasty.

You can use clove oil with a little lavender oil if the squeegee oil is too nasty for you.

You can use Thompson Klyr-Fire to paint on the bead, then sift on the enamels and fire on. That will make the enamels stick only to where you painted it on. I imagine you could mix them with Klyr-Fire to use as a paint.

I'm trying to think what we used to mix our tracing black with in Bronwen's class....I can't remember, but I know it was thinner.

You could use 7-up or sprite...the sugars I think are what help bind the enamels to the glass until they are fired.

Regular thompson enamels can be used, but they are grainier, which could be a good effect, depending on what you are looking for. Fusemaster enamels are much thinner and are more paintlike.

Thompson also has watercolor enamels that are like paints (not traditional enamels) and used just as you would watercolors. They also have acrylic enamel paints, that are in little tubes and the consistency of acrylic paints. Those are good, too, and can be thinned out with water if you are looking for more dilute color.

-Amy

[Moth]

Thanks, Amy. I appreciate the info. There are just so many choices!

I even looked into having some custom made decals printed but dang those are expensive because of the minimum order limit.

The cheapest price I found to even get started was $75.00. Sure would save me a lot of time though, in the long run. If I drew the art myself, then has the low-fire decals made it would still be all mine and I could be happy with that.

I've found the mini fusing decals but I don't think I want gold and that was all I could find. I want black. Like a silhouette outline.

~~Mary

[VivianLampwork]

Mary, I bought some paint from Dick Blick that can be used on glass. You paint it on, let it dry & put it in the oven for a few minutes. They have some tubes with thin tips that you can use for outlines.

[Moth]

Thanks Vivian. Last night when I gave up on the paint idea, I tried drawing my design on with stringers. That worked, but it is very imprecise. The little paint tubes with fine tips might be just what I need. I will come back and show pictures of what I'm trying to accomplish after I get the bead cleaned.

I'm wondering now that I see it, if a bit of a relief isn't a good thing. Maybe too smooth of a silhouette won't be as interesting, visually. I don't know, now I'm just thinking out loud.

~~Mary

[FlameFilly]

I've used paradise paints in thepast for furnace glass. It is specifically made for glass but I'm not sure about the different coe's. It says on there website you can use it on ceramic steel and glass. This is the link I found but I think I orignally bought them from thompson's. This was over a decade ago...here's the link to their website:

http://www.paradisepaint.com/pricing.htm

[evolvingBeau]

I believe that using the mortar and pestle is intended to grind the 80 mesh powder down into a finer emulsion.. It's hard to get the poweder completely distributed in the oil by simple stirring..
If I remember correctly, we used was 80 mesh thompson enamel but that was nearly 8 years ago and there are probably more options now..300 mesh sounds awesome..

[VivianLampwork]

Mary, here's a link to the paint. They have all kinds according to what you want to do.

http://www.dickblick.com/zz029/50/

http://www.dickblick.com/zz029/48/

http://www.dickblick.com/zz029/08/

[ziggys]

Preliminary results are in. Of course, these were rough experiments done on split pieces of scrap glass.


SNIP:

Thanks for all the input and help you guys. I really appreciate it.
I just didn't have what I needed.
~~Mary

Thanks for the detailed update!

[Moth]

Thanks for all the information you guys.

I called around today to all the ceramics shops within 30 miles. None of them had what I wanted, they all acted like I was a pain in the patoot and one guy actually hung up on me. He had some overglazes I was interested in but when I asked him about them he said, 'I don't sell overglazes retail.' Click.

That's a shame because one of them had some classes I wanted to take but they aren't getting any of my money now. That was a very disappointing experience. Here I am trying to give my local businesses some sales and they don't care at all. Not a single one of them was polite to me.

Guess they don't really have any right to moan about it when they lose business to places like Hobby Lobby and eBay if that is how they treat potential customers.

~~Mary

[pam]

Mary, I used to paint glass years and years ago. Back when Beau was still probably in diapers, so the info is old, old, old, for what it is worth. I bought glass paints that were by Reusche, I think. I mixed those with lavendar oil, clove oil, sweet oil, or some other oil - doesn't matter really, depending on what thickness oil you were looking for. We also had enamels that we used with what was called an enamel base, which was extremely thick and you kind of bubbled the color on the glass. It was great for small things, but you couldn't do a larger area in it. I believe, if I am not mistaken (can't find my glass painting bible to look it up) that we used to fire painted glass to 1800 degrees and flash cool it as you described. In talking with some people selling these type supplies a few years ago, they suggested I add flux to the "paint" to make the firing temp lower. I did buy some flux from them (tiny tube), but never got around to trying it with my glass paints. There was also a type of oil - very thin - called pen oil that we used with the dense black paint and a pen to draw fine lines. Grinding we did to mix the paints with the oil and it was done on a sandblasted piece of glass using the side of a palette knife.

Okay, that's the extent of my memory now, and don't know if that is of any help whatsoever.

[Tink]

Mary, if your intent is black linework, I would think that Reusche trace black and lavender oil would be your best bet.

[evolvingBeau]

Yeah I know Pam, I'm just a young punk:wink:

[pam]

It's not that you're so young, Beau, but I'm just so old!!!

[evolvingBeau]

Baah, so old? It's a state of mind Pam, you know this.