MAPP Gas is DISCONTINUED!!

[DesignsOnTheHeath]

I don't know if anyone here is aware, or if it's been posted yet, but Petromont, the company that is the sole North American supplier of MAPP gas is no longer producing MAPP gas and is closing its Canadian operations indefinitely!

I just found out last night when I was looking at the site that delivers fuels in my area. They have a pdf about that and that they have made a new gas called Map-Pro. They say that the new gas burns hotter-good?, or bad??? Hotter would be quicker but I wonder if it will burn the glass...

Here is a link to their pdf:

http://www.worthingtoncylinders.com/...nce_021908.pdf

Worthington is the brand of most of my MAPP cylinders, and they are the ones who are making the new gas. I am going to call my local gas delivery company and see if I can get some specs on the Map-Pro. I was just going to switch from cylinders to a bulk tank but now I'm not sure if I'll need to go with propane or if I might be able to get just a small cylinder of the Map-Pro to try out.

If I get any info on the new gas, I'll post it.
Smiles, Sue

[houptdavid]

MAP-Pro has a higher flame temperature and better combustion intensity than propane, Not MAPP according to worthington site.
No specific info as what the change is, temp etc.

[SteveWright]

Sue,

When you talk to your gas supplier, ask them about bulk propylene. It is a bit hotter than propane and a bunch cheaper than MAPP.

Steve

[DesignsOnTheHeath]

David-Thanks for correcting my mistake :!:

Steve-They don't have propylene :sad: In case I can find someone who does, how does that work?

So far, "the guy" told me that they have chemoline, but said that's usually ysed with oxygen and wasn't sure if it can be used without it. He's checking on that and if my hot head torch would even be compatible with that type of torch, I'm thinking it won't be. He is also going to try and get me some info on the Map-Pro. I posted the above post on a couple other boards and someone said that they checked with BernzOMatic and were told that they were the only MAPP gas producer in the world!

I'll post any updates as I get them.
Smiles, Sue

[Dale M.]

A list of possible alternative fuels for MAPP gas for the Hothead torch can be found here...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

Dale

[DesignsOnTheHeath]

That's great information, Dale. =D> It's a relief to know that there are so many options.
Thanks for the link & taking time to put it all in writing for us! Rock on!
Smiles, Sue

[glasswinder]

I used propylene for a couple years before switching over to natural gas. I had a large refillable tank and another spare tank so it was very easy. I liked it better than the mapp gas ....(but LOVE the natural gas setup!)

[jaci]

I used propylene for a couple years before switching over to natural gas. I had a large refillable tank and another spare tank so it was very easy. I liked it better than the mapp gas ....(but LOVE the natural gas setup!)

Exactly.. I love my proplyene!!! And it cost less

[truegem]

What kind of tank should propylene be put in? I asked for a brazing fuel (MAPP gas is a brazing fuel), and I don't know which brand they used, but they put it in a propane tank and I found out later that this was illegal. So I want to make sure they put the propylene in the right kind of tank.

[Dale M.]

Any gas distributer should know that information.... Its in their best interest to get it right....

Most tanks are just that, tanks....... If tank has proper valve and the tank (vessel) meets pressure requirements its physical shape is immaterial...

"Some" pressure vessels (tanks) are painted by color codes, BUT not all.... Generally what makes a tank specific for a fuel type is how its labeled...

According to MSDS it has a pressure of 171 psi at 77° f., it seems to have same pressure characteristics of propane and MAPP. It is also is a heavier than air gas (S.P. 1.42) which means it is a pooling gas and has same dangers as propane and MAPP

http://www.vngas.com/pdf/g75.pdf

More information on propylene..

http://www.concoa.com/index.php?pagetype=showRef&id=11&ref=3&gas=propylene

And Propylene tanks use same CGA-510 tank valve connection as most fuel gases (MAPP, Propane, Acetylene).

http://www.concoa.com/index.php?pagetype=showRef&id=11&ref=10&cga=510

Dale

[mandyjw]

I found out about that last year and tried bulk propane as a last resort. I like it better than MAPP and it is so much easier and cheaper.

[truegem]

Mandy, this may sound like a dumb question, but is bulk propane a special type of propane? Or does it just mean propane in bulk quantity?

[Dale M.]

Its referred to as "bulk" because it comes in a #20 (pound) cylinder instead of the #1 hardware store torch cylinders.....

Think BBS propane tank....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

Dale

[botree]

Chem-O-Lene is fine for use with a HotHead torch.

[DesignsOnTheHeath]

Thanks for all the great help.

I couldn't get propolyne but I am getting a 25lb tank of Chem-O-Lene tomorrow!

Smiles,
Sue

[Darlene Balkcum]

Dale,
I skimmed thru the information and bookmarked it for later reading more thoroughly. If I read correctly, it addresses those desiring to use larger tanks with hoses. Do you know if there are any small 1 lb. containers that can be used ... I teach a small group of students quarterly at a local art center and the center supplies the hotheads. I myself use a mini-cc torch at home but for the needs of the students taking the class I'm hoping there will be a small container they can purchace locally.
Has anyone else here come across an acceptable replacement that is small and no hoses are needed?
Thanks for any info,
Darlene

[theglasszone]

Oh My Jeeze!!! So this means that the 1lb. MAPP cannisters are no longer going to be available? I tried clicking on Sue's link in the first thread...didn't work :( This IS a problem...I guess it's time for an upgrade...dang!

I hope this thread will continue to offer information and updates...one question I had:

When will the production/mfgr./availability of the MAPP be discontinued? Do we have an absolute date - or even month?

Thanks for posting!
DeAnne in CA

[Dale M.]

Dale,
I skimmed thru the information and bookmarked it for later reading more thoroughly. If I read correctly, it addresses those desiring to use larger tanks with hoses. Do you know if there are any small 1 lb. containers that can be used ... I teach a small group of students quarterly at a local art center and the center supplies the hotheads. I myself use a mini-cc torch at home but for the needs of the students taking the class I'm hoping there will be a small container they can purchace locally.
Has anyone else here come across an acceptable replacement that is small and no hoses are needed?
Thanks for any info,
Darlene

All that ever been available in the #1 cylinders is Propane and MAPP.....

I have no idea when the new MAP-Pro from Wothington will be available and/or in what size cylinders.

At the moment, it appears that propane is only fuel available in #1 cylinders.

Dale

[Dale M.]

When will the production/mfgr./availability of the MAPP be discontinued? Do we have an absolute date - or even month?

Thanks for posting!
DeAnne in CA

The ONLY company in North America that manufactured and distributed MAPP will discontinued production on April 1, 2008. All that will be available is what is currently in stock in local stores or their distribution system.

Here is link (again) to Worthing Cylinder announcement.

http://www.worthingtoncylinders.com/documents/map_pro_introduce_announce_021908.pdf

Dale

[CelesteK]

I'm glad I switched to bulk propane before MAPP was discontinued. I really liked using the one pound propane better than the one pound MAPP--mostly because it was so much less expensive.

Celeste

[Reenie]

Spend the money and talk to a welding shop and invest $75 for a bulk tank. I would get two if you can. Then all you do is trade out tanks with more propelyene or whatever they use. The tanks that they are normally in are not not fat and round like propane bbq tanks but maybe 3 ft high (Maybe only 2) and last around 4 weeks or so. Then at least when you empty it you have a spare while you take the other one back. They normally have them filled and ready to go...
Or....you could go NG?
Irene

[Darlene Balkcum]

All that ever been available in the #1 cylinders is Propane and MAPP.....

I have no idea when the new MAP-Pro from Wothington will be available and/or in what size cylinders.

At the moment, it appears that propane is only fuel available in #1 cylinders.

Dale

Thanks Dale....I've never used the propane but it seems that others have with no problems. Guess I'll give it a try.
Darlene

[burningneedles]

Oh My Jeeze!!! So this means that the 1lb. MAPP cannisters are no longer going to be available? I tried clicking on Sue's link in the first thread...didn't work :( This IS a problem...I guess it's time for an upgrade...dang!

I hope this thread will continue to offer information and updates...one question I had:

When will the production/mfgr./availability of the MAPP be discontinued? Do we have an absolute date - or even month?

Thanks for posting!
DeAnne in CA

I hope we'll still be able to find the one pound canisters. BernzOMatic is still advertising their MAPP gas products, and I couldnt find any mention of those being discontinued.
http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomatic/consumer/jhtml/index.jhtml


megan

[theglasszone]

Thanks, Dale and everybody, for the input and advice on alternatives. I'm going to stock up as best I can store in my outdoor shed, away from the house and garage. I love Reenie's idea of the larger tanks - the 1# ones are more than a PITA, and especially now that I'm making layered beads and hollows, the longer use time will definitely be a plus!

Take care,
DeAnne in CA

[rverk47]

I'm running low on MAPP, I have a 7.5pound can and am not sure what to use now..Does propane get as hot as MAPP..IS Map pro going to be the new MAPP gass?? Does propelene and chem-o-lene get as hot as MAPP doesn..I work on a hothead and want to get whatever gets and works the fastest..I'm not ready to go oxy/propane yet..thanks in advance for any more info you can give..

[Corey]

I'm running low on MAPP, I have a 7.5pound can and am not sure what to use now..Does propane get as hot as MAPP..IS Map pro going to be the new MAPP gass?? Does propelene and chem-o-lene get as hot as MAPP doesn..I work on a hothead and want to get whatever gets and works the fastest..I'm not ready to go oxy/propane yet..thanks in advance for any more info you can give..

Same here. I also heard that propelene is hotter but it changes the color of the glass.

[topher wren]

I met a glass worker 3 years ago who would use chemtaine, It worked fine on her hot head

[meister1981]

Map-Pro is nothing more then Handigas Pro or Handigas 2 which have been around a fair amount of time. For glass working it is much better to get your hands on some handigas 2 which burns cleaner and a little cooler than handigas pro. In Canada you can get these from BOC gas which is now known as LINDE.

[Vangy]

The BOC in Burnside, Nova Scotia, only has handigas pro and unlike the 1# cylinders I have been using is available in 60 and 100 lb cylinders. This is way too large for me!

However, I have been advised to try MPS gas. I have picked up a 1# cylinder and am going to give it a try. I will post the results.

Vangy

[pathfinder19]

found MAPP PRO at Northern Tool and supply...was like $9.50 for a bottle....

[Vangy]

I have tried the MPS gas and found it to be cleaner than propane for my beads. I still would prefer to use MAPP, however, it may simply be a matter of adjusting my work habits to suit the gas.

[Margo K.]

I teach a class on hotheads and only heard about the discontinuation of Mapp when one of my students came to class last week with a canister of the Map-Pro instead. Guess that will teach me to keep a closer eye on the forums! :shock: The Map-Pro comes in a 1# yellow canister with a label that is very similar to the old Mapp label -- you might not notice the difference if you weren't paying attention to the printing. My student used it in class and said she couldn't tell any difference from the Mapp.

Margo

[Vangy]

\\:D/=D>\\:D/

Now that I have adjusted to the MPS gass I am no longer missing the MAPP gas. I am getting just as nice "beads" as I did on MAPP. Took about 2 sessions to adjust.

[VitreousTyro]

What is MPS gas? Does it come in 1# canister?

- Jill

[NLC Beads]

Used 1# Mapp-Pro canisters to teach a class this past Saturday - it worked fine. They were about $8 at the local Home Depot.
I typically use bulk propane with my Hot Head, and the results are to my satisfaction. ;)

[MerryFool]

I've been paying $12 for a Bernz-o-matic MPS 1lb. cannister at Canadian Tire...
I can do about 8-10 small beads on that before I run out (still getting back into the swing of lampworking - working on my basic skills)
I'm definitely going to figure out a bulk gas solution to work with my HH. This stopping to warm up the tank every couple beads is for the birds!

[Vangy]

According to the canister: Methylacetylene Propadiene, Stablized.

Directly below that description on the lable is the following sentence, "Burns hotter than propane for welding, brazing and soldering."

It comes in a #1 canister. See attached photo.

[Aquamarine]

I used the Map-Pro this week and it overheated my hothead torch and did terrible things to the color of the glass. Light sky blue glass came out reddish brown. After making three beads, I started smelling something funny. Then my flame went so low I couldn't melt the glass, while the torch overheated and turned a copper color. After I cooled down the torch and tried to use it with the regular old Mapp gas, it was still giving off fumes. I don't know if I'll be able to use it again or not.

I'm not impressed with the new gas. Isn't it supposed to be compatible with the torches designed for the old Mapp gas?

[NLC Beads]

Did you turn the torch up too high? I had myself and 2 new students using it and had no problems. It sounds like you were reducing the glass, so you may have been too low in the flame or just had it turned up too high.
Mary - The 1# canisters work, but they drove me crazy, too - just waste and cost. :) I'd go bulk, too.

[Aquamarine]

The gas seemed to be too much for the torch, because I wasn't getting much of a flame yet the torch was overheating. Several students had problems with the color of the beads, too.

[NLC Beads]

It seemed a bit hotter to me, but when I went home I realized the bulk propane tank I typically use was running out, so I thought that was the difference. We didn't have any problems - now I'm interested to hear other people weigh in...

[Margo K.]

I taught a class using Map-Pro for the first time a couple of weeks ago. I do think it burns hotter, and I had to work much further out in the flame to avoid burning. Turning the torch down a little helped some, but was slower going. I also seemed to have a lot of trouble telling where I was in the flame. That's common for beginners, but I haven't had that problem in years. :confused: There's definitely a learning curve!

One other observation -- this was an intro class and one of the students brought a Fireworks torch she had been given as a gift so she could learn on that. That torch seemed to adapt much better to the Map-Pro, and didn't have any issues with burning that I could tell. I've often heard one downside of the Fireworks was that it doesn't burn as hot as the Hot Head, but maybe for this new gas that's a good thing? Unfortunately, I've also heard of problems with the Fireworks clogging up more quickly, so I don't know if that torch is a good long-term solution. Anyone working on a Fireworks torch who can give us some input?

Margo

[VitreousTyro]

I've often heard one downside of the Fireworks was that it doesn't burn as hot as the Hot Head, but maybe for this new gas that's a good thing? Unfortunately, I've also heard of problems with the Fireworks clogging up more quickly, so I don't know if that torch is a good long-term solution. Anyone working on a Fireworks torch who can give us some input?

Margo

I started on a Fireworks for a very short time, it was just tooo frustrating ](*,)
It did not burn as hot as the HH AND it did clog up very visibly - and I had no idea how to clean it :cry: I gave up on it and got a HH (do you have to clean the HH? How?)

- Jill

[cricket]

I've tried the Map-Pro, it seemed to burn hotter, I burned a few beads the first time or two I used it. I called every gas supplier in my area and could not find bulk MAPP (now I know why) but one welding shop told me I could use Argon gas. Said it was a clean gas like MAPP and burned hotter than propane. I can also buy it in bulk.

Cricket

[Dale M.]

I've tried the Map-Pro, it seemed to burn hotter, I burned a few beads the first time or two I used it. I called every gas supplier in my area and could not find bulk MAPP (now I know why) but one welding shop told me I could use Argon gas. Said it was a clean gas like MAPP and burned hotter than propane. I can also buy it in bulk.

Cricket

Ummm.... Don't think so.... Are you sure they said Argon.... Argon is a inert gas and is NON-FLAMMABLE, it is used as a shield gas in TIG welding process plus many many other applications....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon

Dale

[Nanc~]

I have been useing the worthington pro grade map//pro for about 2 weeks now. It seems to be pretty much the same.

[klcbeads]

I have to say that I didn't notice a difference with the Mapp Pro cannisters. I even believe I got extra torch time than usual out of it because you can work much faster.

[agw]

I just took a class yesterday and the instructor brought in Brazing Fuel to use with the HotHead. Canadian Tire carries it at $8.99 (in a black canister) as compared to Map-Pro (in a yellow canister) which is $11.99 for the same size. They were still selling Mapp till the other day! According to the chart hanging from the rack at CT, there is almost no difference in the burning temperature and while reading Cindy Jenkin's 'Making Glass Beads' that I purchased at the class yesterday, she says it is fine to use on pages 14 & 15, so I will be buying that for a bit. I'll let you know if I encounter any problems.

I am a real newbie, and have just started lampworking with a HotHead, but I couldn't find any difference after using both fuels. I may not be experienced enough to tell though.

I can still get Mapp in bulk here in Thunder Bay ON, but I am not ready to put out all that money at once till I find out just how much I will do. I need a better ventilation fan first... So today I will be outside as it is sunny with no wind.

[ArtcoInc]

Here in the States, one of the most common suppliers of MAPP gas is BernzOmatic. One can usually find their small, 1# tanks of MAPP gas at most any hardware and home supply stores.

Hearing that MAPP gas (which I realize is a brand name, like Kleenix) was no longer going to be made, I contacted the people at BernzOmatic, asking if they would be still selling MAPP gas. Here is their reply:


We will not be able to sell MAPP as it was a trademark item for
Petromont. In its place we are selling propylene fuel.


Propylene is another name for Propene (C3H6) (not to be confused with Propane (C3H8 )). I assume that BernzOmatic will be selling this in the 1# tanks.

Has anyone tried Propylene on a Hot Head?

Malcolm

[honey*bee]

My last 2 cans have beed map/pro and i honestly havn't noticed a real difference. It seems to burn the same to me.

I do have a question though... can i use canister propane with my fireworks torch?

[Dale M.]

Here in the States, one of the most common suppliers of MAPP gas is BernzOmatic. One can usually find their small, 1# tanks of MAPP gas at most any hardware and home supply stores.

Hearing that MAPP gas (which I realize is a brand name, like Kleenix) was no longer going to be made, I contacted the people at BernzOmatic, asking if they would be still selling MAPP gas. Here is their reply:



Propylene is another name for Propene (C3H6) (not to be confused with Propane (C3H8 )). I assume that BernzOmatic will be selling this in the 1# tanks.

Has anyone tried Propylene on a Hot Head?

Malcolm

Yes.... There has been several thread where Propylene is mentioned with great success...

Another replacement for MAPP™ is the brand name "MAP-PRO™" which is Propylene in #1 cylinder also produced by Worthington Cylinders...

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1900193

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1290

Dale

[Dale M.]

My last 2 cans have beed map/pro and i honestly havn't noticed a real difference. It seems to burn the same to me.

I do have a question though... can i use canister propane with my fireworks torch?

Sure..... "Sweet spot" will be in different place in flame, and it may leave some soot or carbon in glass if you can't get flame adjusted correctly or find sweet spot....

Dale

[caindamron]

hmmm check this out, the bottle clearly says Bernzomatic mapp gas and its in stock in my local farm & fleet might have to go stock up


http://www.farmandfleet.com/catalog/product.aspx?i=049466&h=050604002

[Cathy at the Beach]

cool. I use a HH and can't get Mapp here anymore. All the suppliers have switched to propylene. I don't notice much difference. Its still bloody expensive.

[Elizabeth Beads]

Chemtane (brand name for Propylene I believe) is another option for the HH, but plain old propane works just as well in my opionion, in bulk or in the blue 1 lb. cylindars. The down side is still how fast you use it up, unlike an oxy-propane set-up.