Lampwork Etc.

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-   -   Will I blow up? (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165671)

Copperrein 2010-06-12 11:28am

Will I blow up?
 
Ok, hello...I'm brand new to the forums so be gentle..

Background: Many moons ago I worked glass via a HotHead. It was slow but small and lacking in the 'intimidation' factor. It worked well, but I got tired of empty mapp canisters. I was also a little jealous of the dual-fuel crew, melting glass at light speed compared to my little screw-on.

Present: I have ordered an entire MegaMinor set-up. I have a welding supply store that is going to show me how to connect everything when I come to get my tanks next week.

-I want to know how many glass-artists get blown up a year?
-How far should I have my tanks from the flame? Will 10' be ok?
-What size tanks should I get? Say I work 8 hours+ a day? (not in the market for and oxycon yet)

I just want a warm fuzzy from the experienced world. Here's a photo of my studio area: http://www.facebook.com/copperrein#!...&id=1512096782

The torch will be at the far end of the table near the plant...does it look like I'll have enough room? I'm not quite sure how big the mega minor flame is compare to a hot head...

Thank you for any help



EDIT: Just found THIS post...didn't do much to make me feel better: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh....php?p=3067973

menty666 2010-06-12 11:34am

I don't recall ever hearing of a lampworker getting blown up. Meth makers though...whole different story :) We get occasional burns, but very rare explosions of any sort.

10's fine.

It depends on what you're doing really. A k tank should last you 2-3 days if you're working 8 hours a day.

As for enough room....That's a little iffy. I think the rule of thumb (unless you're on one of the upper tier GTT's) is 3 feet depth minimum.

Copperrein 2010-06-12 11:44am

OK... 3' from torch to back wall..

Now, fba's....Does my welding supply cut and fit them in the hose? I read that I should keep them close to the torch. Do I need anything like teflon tape in my fittings? I know that's a no-no with natural gas.

menty666 2010-06-12 11:48am

They're brass fittings, so no, you shouldn't need the teflon. There's some debate on whether or not it's actually a bad idea on whole, but most agree that you risk pieces flaking off and coming down in the line, clogging the ports on the torches.

The flashback arrestors are just inline screw in pieces. I have mine on the regulators attached to the tanks.

Diane (clarus) 2010-06-12 12:00pm

How deep is your table? 24" is about the minimum I'd want for the flame of a Mega Minor.

Make sure you have your propane tank outside and you have some kind of ventilation. Check the Safety forum here on LE and ask away there.

-Diane

jamie lynne 2010-06-12 12:14pm

You can eliminate the chance of an oxy tank exploding by using an oxygen concentrator. They are a little pricey, but will pay for themselves quickly. Oxygen isn't cheap. I burned through 100 pounds in about 90 minutes when I was using tanked oxy. That was on a minor. 35 bucks a refill.... or... $250 for a oxycon that isn't dangerous and will supply you with unlimited oxygen for years. You may need 2+ for a mega.

Copperrein 2010-06-12 1:06pm

$250??? I can't find any cheaper than $700 I read on here that for a Mega Minor I need a 10 liter ideally. I could steal my grandmothers....but she kinda needs it...tho for glass...it would be worth it

ROC 2010-06-12 1:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie lynne (Post 3071352)
You can eliminate the chance of an oxy tank exploding by using an oxygen concentrator. They are a little pricey, but will pay for themselves quickly. Oxygen isn't cheap. I burned through 100 pounds in about 90 minutes when I was using tanked oxy. That was on a minor. 35 bucks a refill.... or... $250 for a oxycon that isn't dangerous and will supply you with unlimited oxygen for years. You may need 2+ for a mega.

Where'd you find one for only $250?? That's cheaper than what I've been pricing.

jamie lynne 2010-06-12 1:13pm

Here ya go. :) I actually got one delivered from a guy in Atlanta for $200 total.

http://hobbiesforus.com/

Copperrein 2010-06-12 1:20pm

Hrrmmm... Not bad. I guess if I'm used to a hot head, 5 lpm may not be that noticeable to me, whereas someone used to 10 lpm and a larger flame would have issue?

jamie lynne 2010-06-12 1:26pm

If you are coming from a hothead to a oxy/fuel torch you will be surprised at just how much heat you will have. There is a GREAT amount of difference from a HH to a oxy/fuel torch even on a single 5 lpm oxy con. I am still perfectly content with just one 5 lpm concentrator on my minor. But you may need (and I really don't know) a second for a mega to burn properly.

Alaska 2010-06-12 1:34pm

If using tanked be sure to chain the tank to the wall to prevent it from falling over. Also add the cost of the regulator.

A 250 cu foot tank can run from $18 to $60 per fill plus tank rental if you do not own. And they are not light. First floor use only.

The overall read is that tanked is preferred by many. More psi and higher purity.

With a concentrator you are limited to either 5 psi or 9 depending on model. Plus the purity will be lower. Consider GTT torches (Cricket - Scorpion) for concentrators as they are more efficient than some other torch models. For a new venture I would suggest looking into the Cricket. It runs well on one 5 LPM 5 psi machine or great on tanked.

Copperrein 2010-06-12 1:41pm

Hrmm, I went with the mega minor starter kit from mountain glass, so I've flashbacks, regulators, t hose, glasses, etc already on the way. I'm kinda locked in at this point, and not too terribly concerned about my choice.

I'm seriously considering moving the whole thing to the garage (not attached to the house) and keeping the tanks outside with all the proper markings, chained very tightly to the wall. I was in the navy for 7 years and we are taught very well about the dangers of a tank turning into a flaming missile hazard...and that's just regular old compressed air.

Now I know of the horrors of propane, what a nasty little gas. That has become my biggest concern. Perhaps with the weight of the o2 tank and the propane...the garage is the best bet...*sigh* But I'd rather be by the family instead of out back....

menty666 2010-06-12 1:56pm

I managed to get a used 5 lpm unit off of craigslist for 100.00. So deals can be had :)

Copperrein 2010-06-12 2:35pm

Alright! I have an even better plan! (yay)

The distance from the balcony where I will be working to ground level is 15'...so I'll have plenty of hose to reach. All I need now are two quick-connects. Each day when I'm done I'll lock up the cylinder locker (after bleeding the hoses and removing them). Both the propane and oxy cylinders will be chained inside that. I'll get all my 'this can explode' placards and affix them on the locker. Drill a bunch of holes in the bottom and sides of the locker and BAM...safety.

I feel much better now...

Lorraine Chandler 2010-06-12 5:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperrein (Post 3071460)
Hrrmmm... Not bad. I guess if I'm used to a hot head, 5 lpm may not be that noticeable to me, whereas someone used to 10 lpm and a larger flame would have issue?

I have a DeVilBiss 5lpm and a Mega Minor using a BBQ tank and I melted through my first three mandrels and my candles were right on for a neutral flame. It gets plenty hot. I made boro spacer beads with it just to see if it would melt boro.

I was dropping glass globs all over the bench the first few days. I can't imagine it with a 15 or 20 oxy con...I would have to switch to boro just so I would have actual beads and not melted globs!!!:biggrin:

Dale M. 2010-06-12 6:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperrein (Post 3071298)
OK... 3' from torch to back wall..

Now, fba's....Does my welding supply cut and fit them in the hose? I read that I should keep them close to the torch. Do I need anything like teflon tape in my fittings? I know that's a no-no with natural gas.

If a connection is a "tapered pipe thread" yes Teflon tape is appropriate....

If the threads are straight cut (nut) and connection uses a ball end (or tapered) into a socket, Teflon tape is a no-no-.... These would be "B" fittings (hose ends) and connections for regulators to oxygen or propane tanks.... These type of fitting are designed to seal by metal to metal contact only...

Dale

Copperrein 2010-06-12 6:58pm

Lorraine, great info...I haven't even considered anything besides 104 glass...*lightbulb* I can work boro now, can't I? Ooooooo :D

Dale, I'll just ask my welding shop, they have a large clientèle of glass artists. I can cut and thread black pipe but I've never actually installed it.

Lorraine Chandler 2010-06-13 12:44pm

Especially with 2 5lpm oxy cons or tanked oxy or a 15 or 20 lpm...A Mega works just fine for boro beads and small sculpture. Anything bigger in boro and you might want a tank, liquid or a big generator with a holding tank.

So many options:hide:

Copperrein 2010-06-13 1:38pm

I'm going to start with tanked gas and see from there...I feel way more comfortable with the idea now that it will never be inside the home where I'm actually working. I remember buying 10 of those mapp cylinders from home depot at a time for like $5 a pop I think. I'll see what the financial burden is over a span of a few months and then determine if I want the oxycon.

want torch nao! ugh...hate the wait.....hhhhaaaate it....

squid 2010-06-13 1:44pm

you'll want the oxycon. :)

Copperrein 2010-06-13 1:46pm

if I can get 10lpm for $400 or less...I would consider it

squid 2010-06-13 1:47pm

you don't need 10 lpm - 5 lpm is a huge step up from a HH - and you can always add a 2nd 5 lpm later and Y them together.

Copperrein 2010-06-13 1:51pm

Hrmmmm...

But how do I get the tube that goes up my grandmother's nose to fit into the torch? (har-dee-har-haaar)

squid 2010-06-13 2:20pm

There's an adapter :)

Copperrein 2010-06-13 2:27pm

No duct tape then?

jamie lynne 2010-06-13 2:39pm

I swear an oxy con will be the best investment you will make. You won't regret it. You don't run the chance of running out of oxy mid-bead. You don't have to take the time to go get it filled or pay for delivery. No tank rental, or tank to buy (mega $$$). No lugging (which is usually when the accidents happen). Plus, when you get old you can just hook up a cannula and you are in business. :)

If you are really going to be working 8+ hours a day at 100 lbs/ 90 minutes work time. (I'm pretty sure mine held 2000 lbs.) That is 3-4 days MAX on a tank. Do you really want to make that trip that often? At that rate you could pay for an oxycon in a month or two.

Dana L 2010-06-13 3:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copperrein (Post 3072977)
No duct tape then?

No duct tape in my house... Latex sensitive. [-X

Copperrein 2010-06-13 3:08pm

Jamie...you've almost sold me...dang....*sigh*

Dana...sheep-skin then?

Copperrein 2010-06-13 3:17pm

Alright....damn...

Which of these will work? Can I use the $200 one listed at the top? Can you guys post photos of how your oxycons are set up?

http://p5.hostingprod.com/@hobbiesfo...entrators.html


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