Lampwork Etc.

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-   -   Using House Gas - U.K. (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314694)

Rara-Flame 2020-07-15 9:34am

Using House Gas - U.K.
 
Hi all. I live in the U.K. and I was wondering about the possibility of using house gas (instead of propane) on my Bravo. Bethlehem burners state that due to the torch having been designed as a low pressure burner it will work happily with house gas.

I have read (somewhere (a U.K. source)) that this a consideration, and that it is simply a case of having an extra gas line added and the correct fitting (3/8 bsp) for the torch (with a shut off valve) installed.

I would appreciate any feedback on this as it will eliminate the need to have propane. I have a oxycon setup for the oxygen so to have a house gas line will allow for a bottle/tank free studio.

I respectfully ask if there is anyone in the U.K. that has some info on this please.

Lorraine Chandler 2020-07-15 12:26pm

Hi and welcome. Try this link. It is the Lampwork forum of the UK. Lots of nice people there.


https://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php

Rara-Flame 2020-07-15 1:15pm

Hi. Thank you for your lovely reply. I will certainly checkout the site. :)

KJohn 2020-07-15 2:25pm

you should ask your gas company, there are limits to what they will install for residential, also ask Bethlehem. Low pressure is supposed to work with a minor/Mega minor, but I would hesistate with an alpha, let alone a Bravo...but who knows? Good luck

Rara-Flame 2020-07-15 3:19pm

Hi Kristin. Thanks for the info, I will look into that. I appreciate your time and consideration.

Speedslug 2020-07-16 5:44am

Aye, I have a GTT Cricket and I put in an extension from the back of my natural gas stove to my torch bench.

It is extremely low volume flow but I have no trouble working sizable soft glass pieces and even some small boro up to about 3/4 of an inch.

You could use the search function at the top of the page to look for natural gas.

If you use quotation marks, as in "natural gas", you will get more pointed results.
If you don't use them you will get results on both the words - natural - and - gas - as well as the two together.
Searches without quotes can take a rather long time as it looks for all individual words and then looks for combinations.

You can also get better results by using the Search This Thread drop down within specific threads like Safety or Boro or Studios.

Good luck and welcome to the addiction.

Rara-Flame 2020-07-16 8:12pm

Hi Phill.

Sorry for the delay - only just seen your post.

Thank you for the great info. :)

I will look into some of the points that you have made. I think that the main issue is going to be the pressure (psi) of the gas here in the U.K. On an earlier search - I did find a company that make a booster for the use of natural gas - unfortunately though, they are not for the U.K. market.

Speedslug 2020-07-16 9:15pm

No worries on the delay thing.


I'm 5 time zones away but we have others that are in Australia so "timely replies" have more to do with what month than what day.

And I often don't check most of the forums threads for weeks at a time.

I am often peeking into the Bathroom thread where there is often a daily "how's it going" thread.
But there were lots of bots back when this forum software was written so the threads in the "Back Alley" threads were put behind a requirement of 15 posts before new folks could access to kill off the spam and porn link posts and such.

So, again, no worries about -timely replies- as far as I'm concerned.

Besides, life always finds a way if getting in the way of the best laid plans and such ....

Lorraine Chandler 2020-07-17 11:39am

Maybe get in touch with Tuffnell's. I am sure they have heard all about which of the torches they sell have worked best with the in house gas systems on your side of the pond.:smile:

https://tuffnellglass.com/contents/en-uk/d36.html




Quote:

Originally Posted by Rara-Flame (Post 5077376)
Hi all. I live in the U.K. and I was wondering about the possibility of using house gas (instead of propane) on my Bravo. Bethlehem burners state that due to the torch having been designed as a low pressure burner it will work happily with house gas.

I have read (somewhere (a U.K. source)) that this a consideration, and that it is simply a case of having an extra gas line added and the correct fitting (3/8 bsp) for the torch (with a shut off valve) installed.

I would appreciate any feedback on this as it will eliminate the need to have propane. I have a oxycon setup for the oxygen so to have a house gas line will allow for a bottle/tank free studio.

I respectfully ask if there is anyone in the U.K. that has some info on this please.


Rara-Flame 2020-07-17 3:42pm

Hi Lorraine. Thank you for your thoughts.

I suppose the idea of having a tankless studio is appealing. Time will tell. :)

Moira 2020-07-20 11:49am

There are people in the UK running their torches off their household gas supply - but not many. It works fine - but the problem is finding a registered gas fitter who is prepared to install it for you.

It's worth a try - good luck!

Rara-Flame 2020-07-21 8:42am

Hi Moira. Lovely to hear from you.

Yes I have heard that some have managed to get this done.

I think that a lot of the fitters, of whom are reluctant to take on the commission, do not realise that flameworkers (on the whole) know a great deal about the safety, valve and hose construction, torch mechanics etc.

As I will be using a Bravo torch - my main concern is the ability of the house gas pressure to offer enough for the torch to work with.

It would be lovely if I could find someone that actually has this setup working. :)

Rara-Flame 2020-07-21 10:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler (Post 5077402)
Hi and welcome. Try this link. It is the Lampwork forum of the UK. Lots of nice people there.


https://www.frit-happens.co.uk/forum/index.php

Hi Lorraine. Trusting that this finds you well.

Thank you again for the above link - I took a look and set up an account. (as one does here) I had a mail back stating that my membership would be checked and that I would hear back shortly.

That was the Day after we spoke - as yet no reply back. Therefore I was wondering - is the forum actually still active? And ideas on this please. :)

Speedslug 2020-07-21 10:41am

You might have to actually do the work yourself.

Start with getting a "consult" from a professional. That way they are have no liability, they are just offering you an opinion on what you plan to do.

Then get all the parts to do what you have planned and get another "consult" from a professional.

Then do the installation yourself and lastly have it inspected by a professional or the local code inspector or a fire marshal.

The work itself is not hard to do or to understand.

I don't know how the laws work where you live but where I am they have this "King of the castle" thing in the local laws that says the government can't tell me what I can and can not do in my own home if I have title to the place ( or a mortgage on it).
We can be held liable if something goes wrong that winds up causing problems for others and we have to follow what ever deals we make with the bank that holds the mortgage.

Moira 2020-07-21 12:58pm

Frit Happens is still going, just. It used to be very active, before the mass migration to Facebook. And I hear that that applications to join may disappear into someone's junk file and not be noticed immediately.

I recommend that you persist though. Email again. There is a mine of useful information there, all searchable. When you manage to batter your way in, search for 'natural gas', and you will find some good info - a few years old admittedly.

Rara-Flame 2020-07-21 11:35pm

Hi Phill. Thanks for the info - most kind of you. I am thinking that it is, as you say, a matter of persistence. :)

Rara-Flame 2020-07-21 11:36pm

Thank you Moira, that is encouraging. I was wondering if the forum had closed down. :)

Lorraine Chandler 2020-07-28 7:20pm

Hi, Yes Lampworking, this forum and some forum members in particular suffered some very hard blows a few years back.

But it is about time for it to make a resurgence. :waving: Frit Happens is like LE, it has a ton of info, photos and just anything you might want to know. You will not be disappointed. Hang in there and keep trying. In the meantime we're here to help all we can too.
\\:D/

Here is what Bethlehem says about the Bravo:

improved design replacing our popular Barracuda Burner
All stainless steel construction that stays cool while the flame is super hot
A unique design that allows for a higher volume of fuel at a lower inlet pressure- 15 cu. ft./hr. at only 2 psi.
Can also operate on household gas (1/4 psi) and oxygen concentrators (7 psi




Here is what Tuffnell Glass says in the UK:

The centre torch has 6 jets for fine detail work while the outer fire has 12 jets , ideal for boro up to 44mm dia borosilicate tubing and all your soft glass needs .Marble makers will love it but it will need either oxygen cylinders or 3 reconditioned oxy-cons or 1 new 10ltr oxy-con and 1 5ltr oxy-con to run.

You will also need an oxygen splitter and propane splitter to run this torch as there are two oxygen and propane hoses running to the torch

A little different and Tuffnell Glass doesn't mention the household gas. Hmmm?8-[

Rara-Flame 2020-10-14 12:49am

Hi all. Trusting that everyone is taking care at this most difficult of times.

I have a simple question - is it fairly standard for those of us who decide to switch over from propane to natural gas, to use our existing propane hose? (With correct fitting at shutoff valve)

I take it that a good quality orange/red iso3821 propane hose (6mm) bore - has no issues with natural gas?

Speedslug 2020-10-14 4:27pm

I have had no trouble at all using my yellow and green hose these last 12 years or more.

Propane and natural gas are distilled from the same oil well gases so hoses made for one are OK for the other.

Propane will cause hoses made for acetylene to breakdown and get gummy and disintegrate from the inside out.
Clogs up the torch which get expensive to have the manufacturer cleanout and eventually will leak out the sides of the hose.

Natural gas is lighter than air so it's OK for use in basements but propane is heavier than air and will pool in low places like basements.
That is until the pool of propane finds the pilot light on furnace or water heaters then it can ignite in an explosive way.
Someone here disagrees with me a lot as to whether this is a real danger so I simply suggest you ask your insurance company if they will pay for any damages or if they will use just having more than a pound of propane stored in your house as an excuse to deny any claim at all, even for unrelated problems like like a water pipe flooding a bathroom, if they can prove having propane inside is a violation of your contract.
But that is off the topic at hand.

To be on the very safest footing, legally, I recommend getting a long length of bar-b-que tanks hose marked "Type T" on it along with barbed connectors and hose clamps.
Use a short length of hose where you have to have flexibility but use "black pipe" and bendable metal hose and shut off valves like those at the back of a stove to get the natural gas close to your torch bench.

thepope1 2021-04-06 12:34pm

NATURAL GAS with Mega Minor
 
Hi all!
I have finally gotten my studio set up using an Oxygen concentrator and a natural gas line. It works great! I was worried that there would not be enough pressure for my torch to burn hot enough, but it seems to be just fine for my Mega Minor. I appreciate all of the information I have gotten on this site about this subject!

Speedslug 2021-04-09 3:38am

Welcome to the addiction.


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