Devardi cracks
 

Hi there,

I'm really down :(
Looking into my bowl for some accent beads for a set and
see a spacer that is cracked....after months!
It was Devardi trans black over clear.
A few months ago I used the ink blue and covered it with aurae and encased with clear... all beads cracked, but in the middle. And no, my kiln is OK!

Made a few days ago some beads with devardi base (I believe it was ivory) and silvered glass and encased and see this morning cracks :shock: I'm glad that I didn't had any bids yet on this set and put it offline.
Also you can not use dark rose over white ... all beads cracked...I'm so pissed off... all the work for nothing and I just ordered some more glass beofre, crud! I did the compatibility test with white and it was ok *duh*

Most bad thing is that those spacers were sold a few months ago... a lot of them. Now I need to contact my customer about this. That is so ](*,)

Anyone else with some encasing problems?

I honestly don't think it likes to be encased. I have gotten thermal cracking (or so it appears) with every bead I've encased. I don't know......

It's been reported that Devardi does not work well with silver glass. Sorry about your loss! Check out the Devardi thread in the Tips and Techniques room. I've used the Dark Rose over Effetre White and Devardi Pink with no issues. Which brand of white did you use and how long was it before they cracked? Which brand of Clear?

(Lol! Didn't notice that this post is in the tips forum.)

I used the Devardi Dark Rose over Effetre White, not fully encased, just a white heart bead and it cracked. Pretty color but I think I'll use it for plain spacers.

Please don't flame me but it is my experience with this glass that you get what you paid for and not worth the effort. I hope that your customers understand and everything will work out okay.

you've used it, Tammy?

I have to disagree. I paid nearly $30/lb for some Effetre Pink & Sage that pissed me off beyond belief. Fat uneven rods with bubbles running the entire length that no amount of annealing could fix. Had I paid $5/lb, my anger would have been less. And how much does Diamond Clear cost per lb? How many threads are going on about problems with it? Lauscha?

All glass brands have their issues. You learn what they are through trial and error and information sharing and then you work with it (or you don't). Devardi has some quality control problems but they're a new company and that's to be expected. They're improving. What's the excuse of the companies that have been in business for decades and still put out batches of crap glass? There is none because there will never be a "perfect" line of glass. There will always be some sort of problem, be it compatibility, bubbles, color inconsistency or whatever. At least with Devardi, you're not paying a premium price and still having those issues...

At the price Devardi is, I can easily afford the time and glass to experiment, to 'play' which I never feel free to indulge in much with more expensive glasses and the results I get are very pleasing to me. No one glass will ever make everyone completely happy.

I haven't noticed that it has much more in the way of problems than other glasses. You can find the same problems in other glasses too, we just tend to expect it in them because they are well known for it.

I am not saying it couldn't be better, just that I am happy with what I get from it.

Kym

All glass manufacturers do have problems, Shawnette, that's for sure. In the long run, an artist has to make their own decision as to whether quality or quantity is important tothem. Everyone has their own priorities. I just think it's important for people to make informed decisions in that regard. Once that decision is made, based on facts and not hype, then it is up to them to make it work for what they want to do.

I've used Devardi on quite a number of beads since it was first offered to the public. (Everyone remembers THAT thread I presume) So far, I've not had any problems with cracking, except with some of the silver glasses. That was mentioned "way back when" also though.

Jack

I agree with Shawnette.

I've had weird problems with high dollar glass too. With Devardi, I bought the sample pack and I'm taking notes on the ease of workability each color has. I am trying out surface frits (the leaded ones) in small amounts of size #1 and full coverage with size #0. I make my beads small and round though, the shape is less likely to have trouble. I want to try some of the frits they offer. They look interesting.

Everyone needs to remember that Devardi is relatively new on the market, and they know it's a pretty big one. Don't you see that this would be every reason in the world for the company to work hard and continuously to improve their product? I'm going to be patient and see how this goes.

I am in agreement with Shawnette and Lisi too. I experiment with the colors and keep track of the results. I like to work hot; so some colors will not be reordered but many I do like and will be using regularly. Encasement can be problematic. So far white and salmon encase nicely. I like to use Kuglar clear for most of my encased beads.

Devardi is not really new on the market. It's been here before.

Here is a quote from a post from 2002. "It's cheap glass, made in India and is full of bubbles, explodes easily and frequently, and devitrifies when you look at it. It seemed like a good idea when I wanted to start out, because it was cheap, but IF it was a good idea it was because it takes a huge amount of perseverence to stick with lampworking when the glass is as tough to work with as this stuff is. Search the archives and you'll find out more than you want to know. Some of the stuff actually has little impurities (I believe someone once referred to them as small stones) in the rods. Like I said earlier, the rods actually had a greasy, oily feel to them when I dug them out this past weekend."

Another one from 2002.
Q.I got some glass rods from India. They are soft (though very shocky). Has anyone used glass from India, and if so, approximately what COE do you think it was?
A. the COE is *approximately* 104. They are *supposed* to be compatible with Moretti. However, you can take that with a large grain of salt. I have some (bought a sampler when they hit the scene).....I still have almost all of it. It's just too much of a pain to work with. Sure, it costs less, but it's no savings when it goes flying about the room or cracks, or some of the other evil things it does (just my not so humble opinion).

I could go on, but I won't. Sounds like it has improved since 2002 though.

That's going on an assumption that it's the same factory. Reichenbach, Kugler, Zimmerman and Lauscha are all from Germany but they aren't from the same factory.

I have encased the white and semi opaque white with Lauscha, plus frit in between. I've had most of those beads for months, and they are still fine.

Not only is it rude to quote that, I think, since you aren't actually identifying the company, it's incorrect. I've probably got 10 lbs of the stuff in my kitchen right now from three orders. No greasy or deviting. Yes, it can be really shocky. So can many handpulled italian colors. My worst ones are EDP and opal yellow.

BE doesn't :p

I was intrigued when the Devardi first came on the market because I love new colours, but it didn't take me long to realize I didn't want any.

If I were in your situation, I would either:

a) Set aside a LOT of time to do in-depth compatibility testing with my Devardi and the other manufacturer colours I wanted to use it with,

OR

b) I'd throw it all out, forget I'd ever heard of it and go back to using glass that tends not to have that problem.

If I'd already done the compatibility testing and still had cracking failures, I think that would only leave me with option b.

I hope you resolve your issues!

Truth! It's pricy, but reliable, and US-made so it keeps a bunch of folks in my town employed. Plus Bullseye brings in guest teachers from the glass artist community, further giving back to the people who support them. :)

Ya know, let's act like this is any other glass brand. When someone has cracking problems, troubleshoot.

How do you anneal? Batch or right to the kiln? What's your annealing schedule?

My post reflects EXACTLY how I would behave with any other glass brand that gave me consistent and upsetting problems after I had already gone to the trouble of compatibility testing.

You can tell me how to act when you are elected God.

hmmm maybe its because I'm new and stupid but I am not having much problem with the Devardi glass at all. A couple of shocky rods, and a couple with bubbles but that's about it and I have most of their colors at this point. I have made probabley 100 beads with their glass and only lost about 3 rods to shockiness and maybe 3 beads to cracks, however the beads that cracked were encased with lauscha clear. And it cracked over top of morretti too. I've read many threads on other brands of glass that clearly can have problems also. so I am curious why there is such hatred for this brand. I have only been doing this for 3 1/2 months and am confused as I am not having much trouble at all.

You started this thread?

I'm sorry, I don't think I've seen you say this sort of thing in any silver glass cracking thread. "throw it away, forget you ever heard about it and use something else"

It's ok for glass that's $100/lb to cause cracking and work it out, but not $6/lb glass?

I don't get your attitude with the post you quoted.

ehhmmm:

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144903


:poke:

I've seen that thread, but myself have not experienced that problem so I'm wondering if there's a kiln temp issue like the one Lunesse discovered she was having. I make a LOT of encased BE beads and the only cracking issues I've had were with that one odd-lot opaque mint color, which apparently I could have resolved by annealing it hotter but I hate that color anyway.

:lol:

Yeah, I am thinking it needs a hotter annealing since I anneal at 925.

I've seen tons of posts where people were angry and talking about throwing away their $80-$100/lb glass because of compatibility or just plain fugliness problems!

But that's what I'm saying, Kalera. ALL glass lines have an issue at some point. That particular issue had a workaround that someone figured out and shared. That's the way it should be. Sharing info and providing feedback so that other users can learn and the manufacturer can take the info and make a better product.

(And someone elso posted in the same thread that one color cracked no matter what they used to encase it, including BE clear.)

I'd agree... I anneal at 968 and haven't had a problem with the Serena. Do you have multiple programs? Maybe you could set one for working with silver glass (I'm guessing that's why so low?) and one for the rest. Or set it to ramp down and hold at 925 after you're done working BE for the day? I do that when I work boro and soft in the same day... I start with boro, then ramp down to soft-glass holding temp.

For that matter, maybe the OP should try annealing a bit hotter and see if that solves her cracking problems?

I made a set of eight encased beads out of that same (Antique Rose) color a year ago and just sold it, no cracks, so I'm guessing it's a kiln temp issue for them as well.

BE is a very thoroughly tested and troubleshot product. It's a known quantity. So if users want a glass that's a known quantity, it's a good choice. If users don't mind messing with something that's less well-known and potentially less reliable, that's fine, but I'm not going to stop singing the praises of a glass that I love when someone expresses dismay at having problems with another glass.

If people have troubleshooting advice fr the OP, they should post it, and not try to stop others either from venting or from suggesting glass they're partial to.

yeah, I could set it to go from 960 to 925 - I may try that :)

Good luck, I hope it works for you!

The other thing I forgot to say about BE having issues is that they test every batch in-house to make sure it's compatible, and if they did let a color get through that had compatibility or any other issues, they recall it, and replace it or give you a refund. Or even if you just plain think it's ugly. This is one of the reasons many people recommend them to people who are frustrated with compatibility issues in other glass.

I didn't intend to derail this thread, I'm sorry. I just wanted to defend my recommendation for a fairly trouble-free glass, as I stand by it quite firmly.

Aw, Karin~

Sorry to hear about your cracking problems...hope you get to the bottom of it soon! I'm surprised that for whatever reason (kiln temp, annealing schedule, location of the moon, etc.) some people have problems with some glass and some do not. Because of inconsistencies that just can't be perfectly pin-pointed (batching, odds, formula changes and so on) - and it seems no matter the manufacturer, there ARE inconsistencies - these things just HAPPEN from time to time.

I've sure had my share of "mysterious" and strangely inexplicable crack problems - even when others are using the same glass, color combos, annealing schedules - it's mystifying! Argh...I feel your pain!

And as far as the issues of this glass being cheap or inclined to have problems because of where it's made, how it's made, who made it and so forth, this is how I feel about that issue (screw the dead horse - it's time to say how I REALLY FEEL):

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...BarfSmiley.gif Fire up your torches and prepare to flame my rear! :hide:

Sorry...but I'm fed up and really, it's not helping IMHO to speak derogatorily of a product that is generally good - and has been proven as such - simply because it's a low cost product or because of political reasons relating to it's manufacturing location! It may be circumstantial specific to SOMETHING that's happening with Karin and talking trash about the product doesn't seem to be the way to help her out.

De

I don't think anyone said to stop suggesting or singing the praises of other glass. The point people are trying to make is the ridiculous attacks on this glass need to stop (but we all know they won't). I don't see anyone attacking Precision or DoubleHelix (or BE) when there is a problem with those lines (saying things like throw it out or don't use it, it's crap). They figure it out with troubleshooting and tip sharing.

I like BE. I love Urorobos and all of the furnace lines. In fact, I gave up 104 (sold it all) and switched to 96 years ago because it's just that awesome. I just recently started using the 104 again when Devardi came out because I wanted to test some of the colors. If people don't like Devardi, then they shouldn't use it. If they've never even tried it, then it's like Saturday morning cartoons used to say. "Don't knock it til you've tried it." If we don't test the glass and provide feedback, how can it ever improve?

Hi Shawnette, First let me say that I have a lot of respect for you as an artist and I don't have a problem with anyone electing to use Devardi if they are making that decision with all the facts in place, which you obviously are. I think what happened in this thread is that people started trying to help and then Devardi users came in to say what a wonderful glass it is, etc., etc. I think at that point it is important to let people who have no knowledge of this glass know that it is not this "wonderful new glass", but rather a glass that is known for having certain propensities, much more so than usual for first quality glass. So, perhaps if those using Devardi would be more objective in their appraisal of the glass, then others won't feel the need to chime in and give their points of view.

Also, I just have to say, using the name Devardi and comparing it in any way to BE is really just blasphemy, but then you know how I feel about BE.

Thanks Pam. That's a great compliment coming from you.

You are absolutely correct about people being honest and if you go back and read the first posts, no one was saying "what a wonderful new glass" Devardi is. All of the initial responders talked about cracking issues and our experience (or non-experience) with them. It was the Devardi bashers who came in with nothing constructive to add to the conversation.

Lol. Squid brought up BE, though. Not me. It's true, there's no comparison between the 2.

I didn't anything against Devardi in this thread. I just sincerely seconded Squid's (tongue in cheek) statement about BE being a more reliably trouble-free glass, albeit one with a higher price tag. That is all, but then I found myself feeling that I needed to defend BE.

And then I suggested that possibly upping the annealing temp might help the OP with Devardi as well as with the cracking issue Squid had with BE.

I know you weren't attacking Devardi and I wasn't referring to you or anyone else in this thread specifically. I was speaking in general terms. (and I know Squidly was being funny, hence the stick pokey smiley.) Honestly, you really don't need to defend BE. They're a top of the line company and their reputation and quality speaks for itself. If i hadn't fallen so deeply in love with Uroboros Black, I'd be a BE groupie, too.

When I first started using Devardi, I experienced some cracking issues. Then I realized I was using too hot a flame. I reduced the flame as stated on the Devardi website, and I worked the glass much cooler. I have no cracking problems anymore to speak of. I suspect Karin made the same mistake. I have made many beads now with Devardi and I just don’t have problems with it. It works great. On the Devardi website there are videos that show you how to use the glass cooler, and also how to successfully combine and encase the glass with Moretti and silver glasses and other brands. I’ve combined and encased Devardi with a number of brands with no problem. Just keep the flame cooler.

That doesn't even make sense to me - why would have you to keep it cool to keep it from CRACKING? I can understand to keep it from devitting or doing other funky things, but I don't understand how too much heat could change the compatibility of the glass :-s

I don't understand this either, I've been using Devardi for awhile now and I don't have any more issues with this glass than any other I've used. My encased beads are just fine. I use ivory silver stringer, 96 frits, of the several beads I've had crack I think it was me gawking at the bead to long. I work on a HotHead with propane, and don't have the firepower to burn the snot out of this glass. It says right on the Devardi website not to cook the hell out of this glass. I have worked with most of the colors, I warm my rods, and anneal my beads at 960 in my Chili Pepper. I've read a ton of posts about cracking beads and Lauscha. Never used it, Never gonna. I have about the same success rate as Sonja. I know I haven't lost more than 3 or 4 rods myself to shattering, and no more cracked Devardi beads, than any other line of glass. I'm making big whoppin focal beads, and I really work it long in the flame. You'd think I'd be having all sorts of problems, and I'm not.

Lauscha makes a yummy clear, and if it works for you, you don't ever want to change. I love my lauscha clear-and the beads I made with the devardi white and semi-opaque white + furnace glass frits have been fine.

I don't tend to use the reds/pink furnace glass with 104 coe glass, though, because I have had horrid luck with those in the past, and I read something here that suggested they didn't have the lead content that some of the other colors do, making them less likely to mix well.

I also tend to lay down a little clear of the same kind I plan to encase with when using reds, yellows, and oranges as a base-for one it stretches the usually more expensive "hot" colors in the moretti line, and two, because some of those tend to not like to be encased unless you do this.

Uroboros is gorgeous stuff, too... I feel that! I sent all last week melting my 96.

I get you now; I just wanted to make sure I was being clear about my intentions. :love:

Hello,
I have talked with Daniel many times about the company that manufactures Devardi Glass. I was told this company never made glass rods for export before he purchased from them. I do not think it is fair to make the above statements, and "Quotes," without knowing the facts.
From the beginning of Devardi Glass, it has been like watching a baby seal being clubbed to death. Maybe that is a little dramatic, but it is just how I feel. If you throw enough mud out there, some of it "might" stick.
This is just not fair to two good people, trying to start a business and make a living.
I know the company Daniel and Natasha is purchasing glass from, is very impressed with the sales of their thriving small business. They have increased their purchases greatly with each and every order. They are shipping glass to many countries. Customers are ordering two and three times. Yes, repeat orders. Many colors are sold out before they can be offered to the general public. It should tell you, the ones that have never used the glass but are so quick to put it down, "We like it".
Nothing is wrong with coming on this thread, or any other, and discussing the "good or the bad" about Devardi Glass. But, it is wrong to make unfounded accusations that could possibly hurt someone's business and reputation. Why? I am so curious. Is it worth it? If I was a well respected member of this community, I don't think so.
Jim Clark

Jim, as I pointed out in my post, seems the glass has improved since 2002. And in my opinion it would also be unfair to describe this glass as a better glass than others on the market.

Pam, The only relationship this glass has with the glass imported in 2002 is that they both are made in India. The manufacturers like what Daniel and Natasha have done with the glass, so they have chemists working on new glass, lusters, silver, and others, and the quality has improved with each shipment, and I am told it will in the future, by using larger crucibles and larger kilns. The company is listening to customers.
I don't see that many users of Devardi glass are comparing it with Bullseye or Uroboros. They have excellent quality control and their glass is great. I don't think that is the point here.
I know Daniel could take the time to pull all first quality rods and charge a much higher price for them, especially the premium colors. His marketing strategy is his - put it all out there - make it and keep it simple - all at one price. Would I have done this if I was retailing glass rods? Probably not. But, I cannot argue with their success. It amazes me to see how many thousands of pounds of glass are being shipped with each new shipment. And, they still have to time to respond to anyone, by email or phone, that needs them or advise about their product. Their customer service is stellar.
No, this is not about comparing Devardi to Bullseye or Uroboros. Many of us do not want to pay $30.00 to $50.00 a pound for glass, especially in this economy. Many of us are ordering this glass, also, because we like many of the working properties. Yes, I have and do use some Bullseye and I have worked with Uroborus. Both, fantastic glasses.
Jim Clark

PS: Hello Kalera, Hope you had a great summer.

Sorry, Jim, I guess you missed the point entirely. Oh, well, never mind.

Pam, Was your point that this glass has improved since 2002? You could compare the two, but it is not made by the same company.
We have all established that Devardi does not have the quality control of Bullseye or Uroborus.
So, what is your point?
Jim

Hi together,

thanks for your replies!

Well I did not encase the trans. black ... I encased the clear with it.

Shawnette I think it was probably Vetrofond clear. Hmmm... must confess I'm not very sure, it also could be Moretti, but tend more to Vetrofond. If the cracks were there right after the kiln ...oh well... but after months??
I better use that glass only for spacers in future.

Working that glass cooler is only because of the bubbles and "scum", I don't think that it's got to do something with cracking.

OK, thank you all :)