Lampwork Etc.

Lampwork Etc. (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tips, Techniques, and Questions (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   Devardi cracks (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145643)

Beadfairy 2009-11-16 12:22pm

Devardi cracks
 
Hi there,

I'm really down :(
Looking into my bowl for some accent beads for a set and
see a spacer that is cracked....after months!
It was Devardi trans black over clear.
A few months ago I used the ink blue and covered it with aurae and encased with clear... all beads cracked, but in the middle. And no, my kiln is OK!

Made a few days ago some beads with devardi base (I believe it was ivory) and silvered glass and encased and see this morning cracks :shock: I'm glad that I didn't had any bids yet on this set and put it offline.
Also you can not use dark rose over white ... all beads cracked...I'm so pissed off... all the work for nothing and I just ordered some more glass beofre, crud! I did the compatibility test with white and it was ok *duh*

Most bad thing is that those spacers were sold a few months ago... a lot of them. Now I need to contact my customer about this. That is so ](*,)

Anyone else with some encasing problems?

redayh 2009-11-16 12:53pm

I honestly don't think it likes to be encased. I have gotten thermal cracking (or so it appears) with every bead I've encased. I don't know......

shawnette 2009-11-16 1:08pm

It's been reported that Devardi does not work well with silver glass. Sorry about your loss! Check out the Devardi thread in the Tips and Techniques room. I've used the Dark Rose over Effetre White and Devardi Pink with no issues. Which brand of white did you use and how long was it before they cracked? Which brand of Clear?

(Lol! Didn't notice that this post is in the tips forum.)

Three Muses Glass 2009-11-16 3:33pm

I used the Devardi Dark Rose over Effetre White, not fully encased, just a white heart bead and it cracked. Pretty color but I think I'll use it for plain spacers.

tammydownunder 2009-11-17 4:02am

Please don't flame me but it is my experience with this glass that you get what you paid for and not worth the effort. I hope that your customers understand and everything will work out okay.

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-17 4:52am

you've used it, Tammy?

shawnette 2009-11-17 5:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tammydownunder (Post 2753109)
Please don't flame me but it is my experience with this glass that you get what you paid for and not worth the effort. I hope that your customers understand and everything will work out okay.

I have to disagree. I paid nearly $30/lb for some Effetre Pink & Sage that pissed me off beyond belief. Fat uneven rods with bubbles running the entire length that no amount of annealing could fix. Had I paid $5/lb, my anger would have been less. And how much does Diamond Clear cost per lb? How many threads are going on about problems with it? Lauscha?

All glass brands have their issues. You learn what they are through trial and error and information sharing and then you work with it (or you don't). Devardi has some quality control problems but they're a new company and that's to be expected. They're improving. What's the excuse of the companies that have been in business for decades and still put out batches of crap glass? There is none because there will never be a "perfect" line of glass. There will always be some sort of problem, be it compatibility, bubbles, color inconsistency or whatever. At least with Devardi, you're not paying a premium price and still having those issues...

Kym 2009-11-17 5:42am

At the price Devardi is, I can easily afford the time and glass to experiment, to 'play' which I never feel free to indulge in much with more expensive glasses and the results I get are very pleasing to me. No one glass will ever make everyone completely happy.

I haven't noticed that it has much more in the way of problems than other glasses. You can find the same problems in other glasses too, we just tend to expect it in them because they are well known for it.

I am not saying it couldn't be better, just that I am happy with what I get from it.

Kym

pam 2009-11-17 5:51am

All glass manufacturers do have problems, Shawnette, that's for sure. In the long run, an artist has to make their own decision as to whether quality or quantity is important tothem. Everyone has their own priorities. I just think it's important for people to make informed decisions in that regard. Once that decision is made, based on facts and not hype, then it is up to them to make it work for what they want to do.

J&M 2009-11-17 6:35am

I've used Devardi on quite a number of beads since it was first offered to the public. (Everyone remembers THAT thread I presume) So far, I've not had any problems with cracking, except with some of the silver glasses. That was mentioned "way back when" also though.

Jack

Lisi 2009-11-17 12:05pm

I agree with Shawnette.

I've had weird problems with high dollar glass too. With Devardi, I bought the sample pack and I'm taking notes on the ease of workability each color has. I am trying out surface frits (the leaded ones) in small amounts of size #1 and full coverage with size #0. I make my beads small and round though, the shape is less likely to have trouble. I want to try some of the frits they offer. They look interesting.

Everyone needs to remember that Devardi is relatively new on the market, and they know it's a pretty big one. Don't you see that this would be every reason in the world for the company to work hard and continuously to improve their product? I'm going to be patient and see how this goes.

dichromary 2009-11-17 12:17pm

I am in agreement with Shawnette and Lisi too. I experiment with the colors and keep track of the results. I like to work hot; so some colors will not be reordered but many I do like and will be using regularly. Encasement can be problematic. So far white and salmon encase nicely. I like to use Kuglar clear for most of my encased beads.

pam 2009-11-17 12:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisi (Post 2753660)

Everyone needs to remember that Devardi is relatively new on the market, and they know it's a pretty big one. Don't you see that this would be every reason in the world for the company to work hard and continuously to improve their product? I'm going to be patient and see how this goes.


Devardi is not really new on the market. It's been here before.

Here is a quote from a post from 2002. "It's cheap glass, made in India and is full of bubbles, explodes easily and frequently, and devitrifies when you look at it. It seemed like a good idea when I wanted to start out, because it was cheap, but IF it was a good idea it was because it takes a huge amount of perseverence to stick with lampworking when the glass is as tough to work with as this stuff is. Search the archives and you'll find out more than you want to know. Some of the stuff actually has little impurities (I believe someone once referred to them as small stones) in the rods. Like I said earlier, the rods actually had a greasy, oily feel to them when I dug them out this past weekend."

Another one from 2002.
Q.I got some glass rods from India. They are soft (though very shocky). Has anyone used glass from India, and if so, approximately what COE do you think it was?
A. the COE is *approximately* 104. They are *supposed* to be compatible with Moretti. However, you can take that with a large grain of salt. I have some (bought a sampler when they hit the scene).....I still have almost all of it. It's just too much of a pain to work with. Sure, it costs less, but it's no savings when it goes flying about the room or cracks, or some of the other evil things it does (just my not so humble opinion).

I could go on, but I won't. Sounds like it has improved since 2002 though.

shawnette 2009-11-17 1:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam (Post 2753734)
Devardi is not really new on the market. It's been here before.

Here is a quote from a post from 2002. "It's cheap glass, made in India and is full of bubbles, explodes easily and frequently, and devitrifies when you look at it. It seemed like a good idea when I wanted to start out, because it was cheap, but IF it was a good idea it was because it takes a huge amount of perseverence to stick with lampworking when the glass is as tough to work with as this stuff is. Search the archives and you'll find out more than you want to know. Some of the stuff actually has little impurities (I believe someone once referred to them as small stones) in the rods. Like I said earlier, the rods actually had a greasy, oily feel to them when I dug them out this past weekend."

Another one from 2002.
Q.I got some glass rods from India. They are soft (though very shocky). Has anyone used glass from India, and if so, approximately what COE do you think it was?
A. the COE is *approximately* 104. They are *supposed* to be compatible with Moretti. However, you can take that with a large grain of salt. I have some (bought a sampler when they hit the scene).....I still have almost all of it. It's just too much of a pain to work with. Sure, it costs less, but it's no savings when it goes flying about the room or cracks, or some of the other evil things it does (just my not so humble opinion).

I could go on, but I won't. Sounds like it has improved since 2002 though.

That's going on an assumption that it's the same factory. Reichenbach, Kugler, Zimmerman and Lauscha are all from Germany but they aren't from the same factory.

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-17 1:05pm

I have encased the white and semi opaque white with Lauscha, plus frit in between. I've had most of those beads for months, and they are still fine.

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-17 1:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam (Post 2753734)
Devardi is not really new on the market. It's been here before.

Here is a quote from a post from 2002. "It's cheap glass, made in India and is full of bubbles, explodes easily and frequently, and devitrifies when you look at it. It seemed like a good idea when I wanted to start out, because it was cheap, but IF it was a good idea it was because it takes a huge amount of perseverence to stick with lampworking when the glass is as tough to work with as this stuff is. Search the archives and you'll find out more than you want to know. Some of the stuff actually has little impurities (I believe someone once referred to them as small stones) in the rods. Like I said earlier, the rods actually had a greasy, oily feel to them when I dug them out this past weekend."

Another one from 2002.
Q.I got some glass rods from India. They are soft (though very shocky). Has anyone used glass from India, and if so, approximately what COE do you think it was?
A. the COE is *approximately* 104. They are *supposed* to be compatible with Moretti. However, you can take that with a large grain of salt. I have some (bought a sampler when they hit the scene).....I still have almost all of it. It's just too much of a pain to work with. Sure, it costs less, but it's no savings when it goes flying about the room or cracks, or some of the other evil things it does (just my not so humble opinion).

I could go on, but I won't. Sounds like it has improved since 2002 though.

Not only is it rude to quote that, I think, since you aren't actually identifying the company, it's incorrect. I've probably got 10 lbs of the stuff in my kitchen right now from three orders. No greasy or deviting. Yes, it can be really shocky. So can many handpulled italian colors. My worst ones are EDP and opal yellow.

squid 2009-11-17 1:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnette (Post 2753130)
I have to disagree. I paid nearly $30/lb for some Effetre Pink & Sage that pissed me off beyond belief. Fat uneven rods with bubbles running the entire length that no amount of annealing could fix. Had I paid $5/lb, my anger would have been less. And how much does Diamond Clear cost per lb? How many threads are going on about problems with it? Lauscha?

All glass brands have their issues. You learn what they are through trial and error and information sharing and then you work with it (or you don't). Devardi has some quality control problems but they're a new company and that's to be expected. They're improving. What's the excuse of the companies that have been in business for decades and still put out batches of crap glass? There is none because there will never be a "perfect" line of glass. There will always be some sort of problem, be it compatibility, bubbles, color inconsistency or whatever. At least with Devardi, you're not paying a premium price and still having those issues...

BE doesn't :p

MelanieG 2009-11-17 1:21pm

I was intrigued when the Devardi first came on the market because I love new colours, but it didn't take me long to realize I didn't want any.

If I were in your situation, I would either:

a) Set aside a LOT of time to do in-depth compatibility testing with my Devardi and the other manufacturer colours I wanted to use it with,

OR

b) I'd throw it all out, forget I'd ever heard of it and go back to using glass that tends not to have that problem.

If I'd already done the compatibility testing and still had cracking failures, I think that would only leave me with option b.

I hope you resolve your issues!

Kalera 2009-11-17 1:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid (Post 2753757)
BE doesn't :p

Truth! It's pricy, but reliable, and US-made so it keeps a bunch of folks in my town employed. Plus Bullseye brings in guest teachers from the glass artist community, further giving back to the people who support them. :)

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-17 1:27pm

Ya know, let's act like this is any other glass brand. When someone has cracking problems, troubleshoot.

How do you anneal? Batch or right to the kiln? What's your annealing schedule?

MelanieG 2009-11-17 1:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff (Post 2753800)
Ya know, let's act like this is any other glass brand. When someone has cracking problems, troubleshoot.

How do you anneal? Batch or right to the kiln? What's your annealing schedule?

My post reflects EXACTLY how I would behave with any other glass brand that gave me consistent and upsetting problems after I had already gone to the trouble of compatibility testing.

You can tell me how to act when you are elected God.

SilverRiverJewelry 2009-11-17 1:53pm

hmmm maybe its because I'm new and stupid but I am not having much problem with the Devardi glass at all. A couple of shocky rods, and a couple with bubbles but that's about it and I have most of their colors at this point. I have made probabley 100 beads with their glass and only lost about 3 rods to shockiness and maybe 3 beads to cracks, however the beads that cracked were encased with lauscha clear. And it cracked over top of morretti too. I've read many threads on other brands of glass that clearly can have problems also. so I am curious why there is such hatred for this brand. I have only been doing this for 3 1/2 months and am confused as I am not having much trouble at all.

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-17 1:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oenone (Post 2753841)
My post reflects EXACTLY how I would behave with any other glass brand that gave me consistent and upsetting problems after I had already gone to the trouble of compatibility testing.

You can tell me how to act when you are elected God.

You started this thread?

I'm sorry, I don't think I've seen you say this sort of thing in any silver glass cracking thread. "throw it away, forget you ever heard about it and use something else"

It's ok for glass that's $100/lb to cause cracking and work it out, but not $6/lb glass?

I don't get your attitude with the post you quoted.

shawnette 2009-11-17 2:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid (Post 2753757)
BE doesn't :p

ehhmmm:

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144903


:poke:

Kalera 2009-11-17 2:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnette (Post 2753885)

I've seen that thread, but myself have not experienced that problem so I'm wondering if there's a kiln temp issue like the one Lunesse discovered she was having. I make a LOT of encased BE beads and the only cracking issues I've had were with that one odd-lot opaque mint color, which apparently I could have resolved by annealing it hotter but I hate that color anyway.

squid 2009-11-17 2:27pm

:lol:

Yeah, I am thinking it needs a hotter annealing since I anneal at 925.

Kalera 2009-11-17 2:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff (Post 2753863)
You started this thread?

I'm sorry, I don't think I've seen you say this sort of thing in any silver glass cracking thread. "throw it away, forget you ever heard about it and use something else"

It's ok for glass that's $100/lb to cause cracking and work it out, but not $6/lb glass?

I don't get your attitude with the post you quoted.


I've seen tons of posts where people were angry and talking about throwing away their $80-$100/lb glass because of compatibility or just plain fugliness problems!

shawnette 2009-11-17 2:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalera (Post 2753911)
I've seen that thread, but myself have not experienced that problem so I'm wondering if there's a kiln temp issue like the one Lunesse discovered she was having. I make a LOT of encased BE beads and the only cracking issues I've had were with that one odd-lot opaque mint color, which apparently I could have resolved by annealing it hotter but I hate that color anyway.

But that's what I'm saying, Kalera. ALL glass lines have an issue at some point. That particular issue had a workaround that someone figured out and shared. That's the way it should be. Sharing info and providing feedback so that other users can learn and the manufacturer can take the info and make a better product.

(And someone elso posted in the same thread that one color cracked no matter what they used to encase it, including BE clear.)

Kalera 2009-11-17 2:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid (Post 2753915)
:lol:

Yeah, I am thinking it needs a hotter annealing since I anneal at 925.

I'd agree... I anneal at 968 and haven't had a problem with the Serena. Do you have multiple programs? Maybe you could set one for working with silver glass (I'm guessing that's why so low?) and one for the rest. Or set it to ramp down and hold at 925 after you're done working BE for the day? I do that when I work boro and soft in the same day... I start with boro, then ramp down to soft-glass holding temp.

For that matter, maybe the OP should try annealing a bit hotter and see if that solves her cracking problems?

Kalera 2009-11-17 2:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawnette (Post 2753920)
But that's what I'm saying, Kalera. ALL glass lines have an issue at some point. That particular issue had a workaround that someone figured out and shared. That's the way it should be. Sharing info and providing feedback so that other users can learn and the manufacturer can take the info and make a better product.

(And someone elso posted in the same thread that one color cracked no matter what they used to encase it, including BE clear.)

I made a set of eight encased beads out of that same (Antique Rose) color a year ago and just sold it, no cracks, so I'm guessing it's a kiln temp issue for them as well.

BE is a very thoroughly tested and troubleshot product. It's a known quantity. So if users want a glass that's a known quantity, it's a good choice. If users don't mind messing with something that's less well-known and potentially less reliable, that's fine, but I'm not going to stop singing the praises of a glass that I love when someone expresses dismay at having problems with another glass.

If people have troubleshooting advice fr the OP, they should post it, and not try to stop others either from venting or from suggesting glass they're partial to.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:19am.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.