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-   -   Can you hook up multiple torches (12) to natural gas line? (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294138)

Iwantonetoo 2017-03-18 4:34pm

Can you hook up multiple torches (12) to natural gas line?
 
I teach in a studio with 14 torches(all Minors), but I haven't ever had more than 12 students at a time.

Currently they're "plumbed" (for lack of a better word) 4 torches to a tank. Propane, and tanked Oxygen.

Out of the blue they ordered 2 OxyCons from ABR. Both EX-20's which got me to thinking about how to best utilize them and my thoughts have snowballed.

Someone at ABR told her each machine can produce enough for 2 minors.If I take the 4 torches from one/same tank of Oxygen can I use a Y connector and use both machines into the one line and have enough for 4 Minors?

She asked me how mine are hooked up and when I told her I'm on Natural gas she said "Can we do that here too?". My first thought is that we can't get enough pressure for multiple torches.

Any ideas? you're all so smart here.:wink: I'm not so sure this even makes sense outside of my head.

Thank you in advance!

wildwire 2017-04-13 8:44am

where I teach - it is a commercial area so the gas pressure is higher than residential. What I found was they use a very large hose about 2 inches wide to run the natural gas to all the torches and then connected the red hoses to the larger hose.

My issue is we run 6 torches off one tank of oxygen....I would like to split that into 3 per tank but due to city budget issues that may not be an option.

I am definitely not giving advice - just my experience.

Dasi 2017-04-18 11:53am

I would not run more than 1 torch on EX-20 even if they are minors. One EX-20 would be perfect for 1 minor and run it at max. I run my torch, a barracuda on 3 EX-20's chained together. I still wish I had more O2.
As for natural gas, they sell a booster so you can use it in a commercial environment.

Iwantonetoo 2017-04-18 9:24pm

Thank you for the input!!

echeveria 2017-04-19 5:01am

Jtv studio where we meet has 16 torches manifolded to NG. It needs a booster - we all gripe about lack of oomph. Torches are mega minors, also manifolded tanked oxy.

Alaska 2017-04-22 3:47pm

The issue with using NG, at household pressures (1/3 PSI), is the torch is starved for fuel. The torch will still work, but can not go beyond what fuel is available. Ran a Scorpion at 1/3 PSI and it worked well but can only do so much.

Then added a booster and now at 5 PSI it works as it should. If purchasing a booster, buy one that has enough capacity to fuel the number of needed torches.

Elizabeth Beads 2017-04-22 5:15pm

Alaska - may I ask where you got your booster? I'm going to natural gas this summer and have a Scorpion but may sell it and buy a Cricket since I use the inner fire only about 95% of the time.

I was told NG household pressure was 2 psi, maybe it varies by location?

dusty 2017-04-24 9:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads (Post 4924247)
Alaska - may I ask where you got your booster? I'm going to natural gas this summer and have a Scorpion but may sell it and buy a Cricket since I use the inner fire only about 95% of the time.

I was told NG household pressure was 2 psi, maybe it varies by location?

It does vary by location, and even from house to house. You can sometimes have the company adjust it if you need to. I think 2psi should be fine for Scorpion or Cricket - from GTT's website, "It requires as low as psi to 5 psi of natural gas or propane with a low consumption rate of 1.5 LPM (3 CFH) at the maximum flame size."

echeveria 2017-04-24 1:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusty (Post 4924413)
It does vary by location, and even from house to house. You can sometimes have the company adjust it if you need to. I think 2psi should be fine for Scorpion or Cricket - from GTT's website, "It requires as low as psi to 5 psi of natural gas or propane with a low consumption rate of 1.5 LPM (3 CFH) at the maximum flame size."

While I think that may work for one torch, household pressure is not ideal for the manifolded setup that the OP asks about. I realize you were responding to Elizabeth, just wanted to weigh in again about how crappy 16 torches on household pressure run. I can fall asleep waiting for ivory to melt.

dusty 2017-04-24 5:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by echeveria (Post 4924435)
While I think that may work for one torch, household pressure is not ideal for the manifolded setup that the OP asks about. I realize you were responding to Elizabeth, just wanted to weigh in again about how crappy 16 torches on household pressure run. I can fall asleep waiting for ivory to melt.


It seems like if it works for 1 torch (none of this applies, otherwise), then the pressure is high enough, flow is the problem, and a bigger pipe could fix the flow problem without a booster. I'm not sure that a booster would fix that problem, either, since, the booster's job is to increase pressure, and I don't know if it does anything with flow. The cheapest fix/first thing to try would be having the gas company turn up the pressure (sometimes they will), and next would be running bigger pipes/hoses inside the studio (not the ones to it, but inside).

echeveria 2017-04-24 5:55pm

Could be, Dusty. It is not my studio though, just one that allows our ISGB chapter to use theirs, so I can't really experiment with it. When we turn on the gas, it takes about 10 minutes before the torches at the far end of the manifold can be lit.

And, even if we are running only one torch, the flame still seems weak to me.

Alaska 2017-04-27 4:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Beads (Post 4924247)
Alaska - may I ask where you got your booster? I'm going to natural gas this summer and have a Scorpion but may sell it and buy a Cricket since I use the inner fire only about 95% of the time.

I was told NG household pressure was 2 psi, maybe it varies by location?

Give this link a try:

(http://gas-tec.com/torchboosters.html)

Gas Tec make a number of NG boosters. They are not inexpensive. They may have some refurbished units available for less cost. Phone and ask.

Check the regulator on your NG meter for pressure. It is often stated in WC or water column and posted on the end cap on some systems. Then use the net for a conversion of WC to PSI. If the WC is 6.5 - 7.5 then the PSI ranges from .23 to .27 PSI.

NG firms often will not increase the pressure as it is an increased liability. The more pressure the more volume of gas should a leak occur. A commercial factory, etc often has a greater WC than a home. But policies vary from location to location.

Also if pressure is moved up, one has to consider the replacement of all appliance gas regulators that had inputs in the .2 PSI range.

One very general test would be to test the torch with propane. Run at 5 PSI and then reduce to .2 - .5 PSI. Readjust oxygen for the proper flame at the various fuel pressures.

dusty 2017-04-28 9:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaska (Post 4925034)
Give this link a try:

(http://gas-tec.com/torchboosters.html)

Gas Tec make a number of NG boosters. They are not inexpensive. They may have some refurbished units available for less cost. Phone and ask.

Check the regulator on your NG meter for pressure. It is often stated in WC or water column and posted on the end cap on some systems. Then use the net for a conversion of WC to PSI. If the WC is 6.5 - 7.5 then the PSI ranges from .23 to .27 PSI.

NG firms often will not increase the pressure as it is an increased liability. The more pressure the more volume of gas should a leak occur. A commercial factory, etc often has a greater WC than a home. But policies vary from location to location.

Also if pressure is moved up, one has to consider the replacement of all appliance gas regulators that had inputs in the .2 PSI range.

One very general test would be to test the torch with propane. Run at 5 PSI and then reduce to .2 - .5 PSI. Readjust oxygen for the proper flame at the various fuel pressures.

I don't know how accurate testing with propane will be, because propane has more heat per CF than natural gas has.

from http://www.propane101.com/propanevsnaturalgas.htm :
Quote:

  • 100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 97 cubic feet of natural gas (100,000 1,030 = 97.1) in one hour
  • 100,000 BTU/hr furnace will use about 40 cubic feet of propane (100,000 2516 = 39.7) in one hour


Iwantonetoo 2017-05-16 9:01am

I can't thank you all enough for this info! I love the LE community!

Chalem 2018-03-31 10:48am

A bit techy for me. Still have a lot to learn...Ill stik to one at a time...

IntegratedGasTechnologies 2019-08-06 11:06pm

How does LPG Regulator equipment work?
 
In India, the majority of the general population are utilizing gas controllers in our nation. For the most part, puts each day has impacted in India that is the reason such a significant number of families have kicked the bucket for the regular purpose behind is we have use gas controller however I don't realize which gas controller we are utilized that is sheltered or not. Such a large number of organization producers of gas Safety gadgets and gas controller and so forth. When I utilize any organization gas controller we have don't peruse the item subtleties it is sheltered or not. there are various kinds of gas controller accessible for the market yet how to discover the who is the best gas Safety gadget or gas controller for you and your family. Presently we are propelling the gas Safety gadget first time in India. we are approved for Denmark government however at this point we have sought India on account of regular impact for spillage and not verify gadgets not testing gadgets. Our gas controller Auto-cut-off Regulator, when your LPG gas pipeline or gas controller and so forth, is releasing this gas gadget is auto-cut-off and you first of tackling the spillage issue then you can again utilize it. we have additionally given 5 years guarantee for our items. on the off chance that you more data about this gadget you can visit our site or read the leaflet

With the increase in the use of LPG gas, the demand, and importance of the gas safety equipment also increased. Nowadays it will be difficult to locate the house without LPG gas connection. With a gas safety device at your home, it is sure that your home is safe. In this blog, let us discuss the various features and how to choose a gas safety device for home, which they should have.

Gas safety device

What is the safety device in the LPG Regulator? LPG (Liquefied Petroleum Gas) is a combination of two hydrocarbons-butane and iso-butane which is liquefied by compaction. Popular LPG is a skilled energy source that is also used for homes, hotels and other business purposes. The cylinders are strong and are not easily damaged, but if not properly maintained, then the result can be leakage from the valve, cylinder and pipe connection.

LPG Gas Safety Equipment is a new mechanical product introduced for domestic LPG cylinders. This keeps the home away from accidents due to gas leakage. This helps protect the environment from terrible disasters, which can be caused by gas leakage.

How does gas safety equipment work? When the gas leak, the device will automatically stop the gas supply from the cylinder. A gas leak can be either when the regulator is not working properly; The tube bursts or the tube catches the fire.

Things to remember when choosing a gas safety device: The main feature of the device is their auto shut-off feature when detecting high leakage. Also, the device should have features like gas-saving, low gas indicators, and minor leak test capacities.

Saves gas: These days, most branded gas safety devices save gas up to 20%.
Minor leakage test capability: It helps in reducing gas wastage and leakage protects snowballing prominently. As the first step, turn off all the gas appliances and then turn on the gas safety device and the regulator. Press the safe gauge a few times. Then turn off the safety device while keeping the regulator tap on. Inspect the gauge needle for five to ten minutes. If there is no change in needle then the system is working properly. But if the needle position drops, it indicates a leakage. Apply a soap solution to all fittings and systems; The bubbles will rise from the leakage spot
The low level of gas in the cylinder indicates: The device has a gauge that indicates the level of the gas in the cylinder. It is similar to the one in cars, which indicates the fuel level.
Also, in certain devices, the pressure and temperature will be activated to cut the system.
Gas safety-device-1
Also, while selecting the LPG gas safety device, check the warranty to see what brand is providing and whether any insurance has been provided in case of defects. There are brands available in the market which provide insurance for three years warranty and about two crore rupees.

Now with all the information available for gas safety equipment, choose the best that caters to the quality standards.

drewby3396 2019-08-07 5:08am

Multiple Torches
 
Where I work glass is in Ballston Spa, NY. There are 5 benches for soft glass and two for boro. K tanks provide the oxygen and a gas booster raises the city pressure. However, pressure and volume are two different things. A manifold may be in order to run so many torches. We have supply manifold of 2" black iron. Each torch is "teed" off individually. Oxygen line is similar. All have quick disconnects. Works well.


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