ABR Imagery- Hurricane Oxy Generator- HELP!
 

Hey guys i was told by another member on The Melting Pot that suggested i post this here. I am having a huge problem with ABR. Im fairly new to the torch, and i fell into buying a hurricane with expectations of it powering my midrange. Now i find that anyone who has been on a torch for more than 6 months knows that the generators wont power squat.

Anyone thats a member of the forum should check out the thread in the members vending section>Hurricane Oxy Generator fs or trade

I asked for a refund and they wont take the return, and claim that the system will power my torch. They have used the "it the manufacturers problem" line a couple times. I emailed them, sent them a PM, and i was ignored. Everyone had told me to speak to Ross(the owner, i believe) and i couldnt seem to get ahold of him. The one time i got his voicemail i told him(kindly) that people suggest I speak to him about the problem. He had someone else call me back, and run the "call Paul, he builds the machines."

They did however give me the option to send the unit back to be "fixed." He told me he would be in Kansas City if i wanted to drive up and meet him to swap units, or trade for two m-15 units. Its a 3 hour drive (and about 80 bucks drive in an SUV) so I decided not to give up yet. I am also told this has happened before, and that it takes 1-3 months to get the system back, which is so far from the sales date that your kinda SOL.

So last night i sent ABR an email about it asking again for a refund, and that if i wanted to get technical, his site advertises an Unlimited Oxygen unit in the picture, and i actually got an Extreme Oxygen unit.(I am running out of options, it seems) And so today he changed the photo of the product. Too bad for him a took a screenshot yesterday, because i saw that move coming.

I am basically asking for any advice on what more i can do. I am filing a Federal Traid Commision complaint right now. I hope that can help.

Have you tried to contact Paul yet? He might be able to help you. I will say this about Paul...I was thinking of getting a second machine. I have an EX-15 powering my betta. I wanted 2 because I thought it would really, give me heat and he talked me out of it.
He basically told me that what I really need is a "bigger torch" He could have sold me a hurricane or a machine and I would have bought it but he was honest with me and told me that I wouldn't get much more out of it because of my torch.
That spoke volumes to me. He cared more about me then getting my money.
I'd give him a call. I can provide you with the number if you don't have it already!
Good luck to you!

yeah paul told me no refunds, but that he would "fix" the machine

Well you can do that....and then go from there? Sorry you're having problems with it. I have yet to have any problems with the machine that I own or any of the one's I've sold.
Let us know what happens :-)

well if it takes awhile to get the machine back, and its not any different(like what has happened to others) so then i have time of sale against me.

The Hurricane won't run a Midrange torch!!!

Sara

I would trade for the 2 M-15's and move on..... Make the drive and be done with it..... I understand you are pissed with the service. Been there.... I traded for 2 machines too. Still not happy. I had a hurricane once too.

I am not trying to start trouble with you or them. I just think you will have an easier time with the 2 unit system.....

Did you charge this on a credit card? Likely you did. Call your credit card company
and start a dispute. I got a hurricane that quit completely after a few months. I exchanged it for another hurricane that had an internal electrical fire. I asked for
a refund at that point. I was promised a refund, but it took contacting my credit card
company to get it done. I got a refund. But it took many months, as I waited to
contact my credit card company. After I started the dispute with the credit card company, it took 2 weeks. Good luck!

Hurricane
 

I had a terrible experience with the Hurricane posted in an earlier post here so won't go into all the details again but would not recommend dealing with Paul at Extreme or Ross at ABR. Ross is very rude and doesn't care about his customers. Seems like to many people having problems with this machine. My experience cost me over $300 in freight/restocking fees that I could not get refunded. I'd stay away from both.
Charlie

What a nightmare of a expensive ordeal!!!

Yeah, I would have been pissed off too!

Sara

I think if a supplies company is going to be dealing with these machines, then they should have their return policy stated on the website. This would prevent lots of future problems. I have always found Ross to be completely nice and calm and kind when dealing with him, but I can certainly understand if he is having to deal with lots of problems with these machines he could be responding badly. I think a frank disclaimer on the website, any repairs or returns have to be dealt with through the manufacturer.

If I buy a camera from Costco, I don't return it to Costco when it breaks, but go to the manufacturer if I have a problem. On the other hand, I think if I got my camera home and it didn't work out of the box, I would return it immediately to Costco for a refund. These things need to be stated so there is not so much confusion and purchasers know what they are getting into before purchasing.

I used a debit card to buy this, and i got a hold of my bank about it. They told me I am on my own.

ross has always been kind to me, however when i did need to contact him about a problem, it was usually the company's fault, and he really had no reason to be upset with me. he has made good on the shipments that i received that were incorrect.

on the other hand, being from customer service at good ol' wally world for almost 10 years, he should have a specific disclaimer about service- especially if there are many problems with a particular machine, why still sell it? i know that in walmarts case, we would have taken it back, shipped it out for repair for you to a service center, fixed at your own cost (if out of warranty) and shipped back to you. but this isn't wally world :(, and sometimes you just have to raise hell to get what you need. customer service isn't what it should be most times.

also i don't know what bank you use, but there really should be something they can do, you are never on your own.

A return policy being clearly delineated on these machines is absolutely necessary -- especially since their guts are used parts from smaller concentrators. Sieve beds from Respironics machines, rebuilt compressors from Healthdyne, etc. Good luck!

This is what's posted on ABR website:

• All custom order sales are final from the time of order! This includes custom images, eyewear, kilns, cut glass, etc. Once a custom order is placed we will not refund or cancel the order due to any circumstance.

• We do not provide cash refunds for returned merchandise. The cash value of all returned merchandise will be credited to your account. Any request for merchandise return or exchange must be made within 24 hours of receipt.

• All returned merchandise is subject to a 25% restocking fee.

So the questions are - 1) Are oxygen concentrators considered "customer order?" 2) By not providing cash refunds, does it mean you will have a merchandise credit with ABR for the cost of your unit minus 25% restocking fee?

All in all, it doesn't look for your getting your full refund. Perhaps trade it in for two M-15s? At least you may be able to sell those units easier yourself?

When the oxygen generators first hit the glass market, they were made by a single company run by two individuals who made the same product. There was a point at which the individual co-owners decided to each run their own generator business-- independent of each other. At one point, ABR sold both brands. To our knowledge, the primary difference between the companies involved customer service and aesthetics such as the outer casing. The actual internal units retained the same capabilities. Each type of machine ran the same PSI and flow. Because both of the resulting companies were small businesses that struggled to keep up with growing demand, it became practical to supply end users with available machines. Now, ABR deals exclusively with Extreme Oxygen. In our experience, Extreme Oxygen is better able to meet the demand, offers better customer service, and has been proactive about improving the end product. The picture on our website may have been outdated. However the description of the product’s specifications as given to us by the manufacturer, are and were accurate.
The Hurricane retails at $1596. Freight cost, within the continental US, averages anywhere from $100 to $150. The Hurricane is warrantied through the manufacturer for three years and sold through several different distributors. We offered a sale price of $1250 on the machines. At the end of February, Tyler placed an internet order for the machine at the sale price. The machine shipped within a few days of the order and was delivered without incident the first week of March.
This week—two months after the delivery, Tyler emailed ABR (the one and only email) to notify us that there was an issue with the generator running his torch. Because he owns a MidRange---a torch we were told by the manufacturer that is appropriate for the Hurricane---it seemed logical that there must be an issue with the generator not working properly. Ross called Tyler to address the issue. After listening to Tyler’s concerns with the machine, Ross determined that Extreme Oxygen would be the appropriate party to remedy any mechanical issues with the machine. ABR does not make the machines. So, we would never attempt to repair them. In our experience, Extreme Oxygen has always been prompt in repairing and returning the machines to the end user.
Tyler was given three choices in reference to his machine. First, he can return the machine at our expense and will receive a refund less a 25% restocking fee. Second, he can have the machine repaired under the warranty by Extreme Oxygen at no cost to him. Third, he can take two of the EX-15s in exchange for the Hurricane—that he would be responsible for returning. ABR even offered to meet him in KC for the exchange---an 8+ hour drive from our location---because it would cost him significantly less to meet us than to ship the machine to us. Tyler has refused all three offers.
We offered Tyler a good price on a product. We offered him several options to resolve the issue he has with the Hurricane---a machine he purchased over 60 days ago. We have done everything we can to help Tyler’s situation in a manner that is fair to both parties involved. While we certainly regret that Tyler is unhappy, we simply can not take responsibility for his decision not to make cooperative attempts to resolve the issue.
There are a few points that need clarification. Extreme Oxygen can not refund money on a machine they did not sell. They are more than happy to repair their machines. Ross is someone who is in high demand---as are all business owners. He is not the type of person who avoids people or issues. If you can’t speak to him when you call, it’s because he is sincerely busy. You will never talk to the owner of most of the businesses you deal with on a daily basis. Ross really tries to touch bases with every person he can in a single day. Finally, we NEVER intend for any of our customers to be unhappy.

Well I (for one) can understand where Tyler is coming from. He is a newbie to glass! He took the word of what was printed on the website about the Hurricane. So when he received it, he probably didn't know just how the flametypes were supposed to look like on the Midrange. Then later when people told him (point blank) how things were supposed to look, he felt like a fool!!!

Furthermore if you know something to be false reguardless of what the manufacturer says, don't print it!!! That is called "deceptive advertising".

Also, it is funny how Ross has time to go on the forums and complain about Aura...



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Sara

The manufacturer said he would send us a video of the Hurricane running the MidRange. We will post this video as soon as we get it. This will give everyone the opportunity to make their own decision on the matter. Tyler has expressed interest in returning the machine. We will move forward with this on Monday as soon as he contacts us to confirm the pickup address.

I'd be surprised to see a Hurricane as-is running a midrange (in person, mind you), since it didn't power my Barracuda's inner flame all that well...

Ross is a great guy and very easy to get along with. Since he didn't make the machine or warranty that this would work with this torch I think he is COMPLETELY bending over backwards. The manufacturer is the responsible party here and Ross sounds to me like he's trying to keep an impossible situation and customer as happy as he possibly can.

Here is the manufacturers video of this machine h-1 running the midrange.....
It definitely works!!!


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Well, it certainly appears to run that torch fine to me.

This will piss yall off but the truth is these brothers are scam artists and they are selling crap that sometimes woorks as good as a used medical units. They will likely dissapear soon so dont be suprized if the photo changes again to a new brand.

wtf......hater

if you are gonna call some one out like that you could at least do it with your real name

you know this post is liable-slander! and is illeagal ,

kinda shitty of you too!

The unit I tried on my midrange didn't look like the one in this video. Is this a newer model?

Watching the video was nice but it is hard to compare.

Honestly, I believe the output with tanked oxygen is much stronger and I know the purity of it before hand.

I considered buying a generator several years ago. After consulting with many people, I realized I wouldn't be happy with anything other than tanked oxygen.

Sara

WOW, do you even know that we have already been around 4 years or more. We have hundreds of satisfied customers and a handful of unhappy ones. There has NEVER been an unsatisfied customer that we have refused to work with. We have been at all the shows so people can meet with us and get to know us. We will be around for a long time. In fact, I am working on a new machine that will be completely new and will make the M5 and M10 obsolete. Victorian Art Glass and Eugene School of Glass will have the first ones to test and OK them. I have personally given away 1000.00s of dollars worth of equipment to help Lampworkers. I only wish that the satisfied people would post along with the unhappy ones. But scams, I dont think so. Sounds like someone from O2+. Jack

Jack,

would you like to explain to us about the newest oxygen booster while you are visiting?

How does this work with the existing line you carry? What is the cost?

Just wondering...

I am more than willing to test out any new equipment and if it works as well as tanks, your bank account will see an immediate payment.

Sara

Hi Sara, Happy to respond. You will find that nothing beats tanked o2. That is the first thing that anyone will notice when making the switch. That said, most lampworkers that I deal with say that the convenience of having a machine that creates o2 with the flip of a switch, is certainly worth checking out. Having an "Unlimited" sorce of o2, beats dealing with the tanks. We deal with people who can't even get tanked o2.
The o2 booster is a steel unit that works with the M 15 and UO2 Hurricane. It is stackable with the o2 outlet on the side. It puts out 10 lpm at 15 psi. So teamed with a Hurricane you could get 25 liters which is over 50 cfh of good o2. The price varies depending on who you purchase it from. Also 2 of these teamed up, cost less than my Psyclone and puts out more. Thanks for your offer, I am interested in letting you test. jack

I'm one of the satisfied people...so satisfied I bought a second oxy con from Jack about a year after purchasing the first one. True, I had a problem with the first one, but it was such a small problem. A quick trip to the hardware store, a $3.00 part, and Jack walked me through the repair. It doesn't get much better than that folks! And scam? Nope, I don't think so. I met Jack, spoke at length with him and never got that feeling. And while tanked oxy will always be better I have absolutely no complaints regarding the oxy I'm getting with my two units from UO.

And before anyone says "oh, she's new to lampworking" or "she's never worked with tanked oxy" I'll tell you...I'm not new, been doing this for awhile and I started out on tanked oxy.

And Jack...if you need someone to test your new unit...look me up. I'm working on a Cheetah now and have been thinking about upping the oxy with another or bigger unit.

I sure will alex. And I appreciate the good words. What are the 2 units you are using now? So I can tell what the next step up would be for you. jack