MAPP gas SUUUXXX!!!!
 

Ok, I just came in from my studio where I`ve been trying to make some beads. I`m new at this, and figured I`d start out with what I was taught on, which was a HH with MAPP gas...

I REALLY HATE HATE HATE MAPP GAS!!!

The first time I was out there, I couldn`t figure out why I had so much trouble melting the glass. At first it was ok, but after alittle while, it seemed like I was working lower and lower into the flame. By the time I realized my freakin` tank was freezing up, I was about an inch from the nozzle of the torch!! GRRRRRR!!

So today I go out with all this creativity and ideas floating around in my head, and I make1 bead, then on the 2nd bead, the flame is getting cooler and cooler and the rod is sticking to the bead, and now I have a frozen tank and a blob of twisted glass on a mandrel with a huge rod sticking out of it!!
(Hmm, maybe I should have worded that some other way,....oh well...)

I do have a spare tank, but the torch is hot, so I have to wait for it to cool. By the way, I torch in my garage with the door open, and it is probably about 45-50 degrees today. I guess it`s too cold to be torching? I had hoped to get at least 30 or 40 minutes out of the tank before it froze up, but this time I got only 20...

I`m seriously thinking about the bbq tank set up. Don`t know if I`m ready for a more advanced torch just yet. Just wanted to let off some steam, but if anyone has suggestions, I`m all ears. I haven`t tried the warm water trick yet, and am wondering if it will give me much more time before having to change the water? (deep sigh)....

I was on a hot head for quite a while and it lasted a lot longer than 2 beads before it started losing it's oomph... even in the winter when I was torching in Northern California. On a new tank you should be able to torch for quite a while. On a tank that's running low yeah I can see 20 minute torch times.

Do you have the flame turned all the way up or something? If so, I'd suggest turning it down until it almost goes out, then turning it up a little bit at a time until you find a place where you can work. You don't get much more heat from the hot head past a certain point, so if you have it cranked all the way open you're wasting gas and time.

Well, the tank is new, first time I used it. I did have the flame up when I lit it, but then adjusted it down to where it sounded quieter, almost too quiet, so I turned it back up a bit. But maybe I overdid it. I`ll try to watch out for that next time. Thanks!

Lol I thought I was going crazy for a second. I knew I posted to this thread!
Nope I posted in the other thread (garage sale thread)
Here's a duplicate of what I put there:

Get a bucket of warm water, maybe with a handle so you can hook it some way on your torch and use it to dip your Mapp cylinder in. The cylinders will freeze up with use and the water will help. It's a pain in the touchas but it works. Holly Cooper uses the camping propane cylinders and says she didn't have a problem with them freezing.

I did the cylinders for a short while. It didn't take long for me to upgrade to a bbq size tank (I used propane mostly) and hose set for the HH.

If you aren't wanting to upgrade to an oxy/propane torch just yet go for a bulk tank. I used propylene (mapp is the brand name) at first in a bulk tank and found it to be a pain to get filled (gas place was way out of the way) so I grabbed the bbq tank off my grill and have been using it since (well at least until I got pregnant). I couldn't see a distinguisable difference between it and the mapp.

Someone posted once that they wrap a heating pad around the tank. I tried it when I used a hothead and it really helps. I used plastic zip ties to attach it to the tank. Try it! Just be careful not to leave it on when not in use etc. Jenny

Oh gosh, get away from those 1lb MAPP canisters!! They are too much $$$ and are making your beadmaking sessions more misery than fun! If that was all that was available to me, I would have gave up a long time ago! LOL!

You would be AMAZED at the difference when you switch to bulk fuel. No more freezing up and it's hotter too. IMHO, to be on the safe side, I would order the hose set-up from one of our vendors, so you would get the right one. Jodel has one on their site, and I think Frantz and Arrowsprings does too. I would check for you but my dial-up is way too slow tonight.

http://jodelglass.com/shopsite_sc/st...l/page164.html

Check around at your local welding supply shops to see if you can get a tank account for a 30lb tank. They usually require some kid of deposit, monthly tank rental, and the swap-outs are about $42. If they don't carry MAPP, then propylene is a similar fuel. There are several MAPP similar fuels available. Some say you can use propane in a BBQ tank, but in my experience it mucks up the glass. Propane quality is different everywhere.

If you are really lucky, you may be able to get your own tank refills of MAPP at fuel suppliers, gas companies I would guess. Most of the time, people deal with welding shop suppliers to get this fuel. :)

If you have any further questions, PM me anytime! :) I used my HH for a year and a half, and still love it even after I upgraded to the Bobcat.

Oh gosh you made me giggle reading your post, it sounds so funny lol
i switched to bulk a week after using MAPP and its fantastic, no worrying about it freezing up and running out etc...
good luck!!

I switched from the MAPP gas to propylene for my Hot Head a couple weeks ago, and love it!

Lessons learned: You can put a pitcher of very warm water under your MAPP gas, and lift it up so the bottom half of the canister is in the water. Then set a small stool or something equivalent underneath to hold the pitcher in place, you will be able to keep the canister warm and get most of the gas out.

(I would still recommend the bulk tank if you can manage it. )

Re' the bulk cylinders, the hose screws into the propylene cylinder in the counterclockwise direction (to the left), not the "normal" way. Thought I had the wrong hose, very frustrating until the welding people helped.

The flame from the bulk fuel is larger and hotter than the flame from the MAPP cylinders. As a result, I was cooking my glass for a while before realizing I now have to work farther out in the flame than before. Wasted some nice glass before figuring that one out.

Oh, and always remember to turn off the bulk cylinder before unscrewing your hose. Duh.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

Besure to get "bulk" hose that is long enough (at least 12 feet) to be able to keep bulk tank outside (at all times) while being able to have torch inside...

Dale

Yep, I have already considered at least a 12`length, but prob the 20` to be on the safe side. Definitely WON`T be bringing the container inside....

I will check out the above links also, and when I do switch over, I will try to remember not to cook my glass. I`ve already done that with 2 different colors of opalino moretti. Maybe it`s just the glass, though, I don`t know....nothing else so far has come out that way.

If I remember my research correctly, mapp gas is hotter and cleaner than propane. I worked with a bulk tank (30 lb.) tank for nearly 2 years and loved it. And for sure, any welding supply outfit should be able to hook ya up with a bulk tank.....those little 1 pounders are for the birds.

Dale suggests not using a hose longer than 12 feet-I think with 20 feet you will have a heck of a time keeping it from gunking up and a hard time hanging it to drain- there may be other safety reasons too. You might want to pose a ? in the safety forum.
Edit to say: I just saw Dale has seen the thread
Sally
( thanks for reminding me about the newbie swap - I had forgotten !)

I do????

Dale

LOL ! I thought I had seen a post where you advised this --- sorry If it was not you !!

Um, in the couple of years that I used bulk mapp, I never did 'drain' my hose....'course I alway bled (burned) it out......I think mapp is a cleaner burning gas...but I didn't ever have any gunk in my hoses that I new of anyway. Having said that, maybe ignorance IS bliss....

I always bleed mine too, and hang it so the hose leads down from the valve- I did have a gunk problem once ( a very bad one... I ruined some pretty glass) when the gas had to run "uphill " to my torch and the gunk collected in the hose- now I keep the hose elevated and now get clean beads!

I just switched to my 30lb bulk tank, and I love it. It's lasting a very long time. I keep waiting for it to run out, but it keeps going and going. I had a heck of a time finding it at first becasue I was asking for MAPP gas. I found out no one around here has specifically MAPP gas, they carry Propylene and Chemolene. I also thought I may have heard another name for it.

Whatever they want to call it, it's brazing gas, propane with an additive that makes it hotter, and from what I've read, cleaner burning. Now that I know what to ask, I realize it's all over the place here - several nearby places carry it.

The best part is, it cost me $55 for a tank (one time), and the fill ups are only $25!!! I use it a LOT, and I'm still on my first tank. It's been over a month. And it's never done the cool down / freeze up thing. I can't believe how much $$ I wasted on 1# cans!! Now all that $ can go into glass, like it should. Can't comment on the gunk issue, I haven't found out yet what mine's like...

I am in Michigan, it's been freezing-butt cold here, and I never had any low pressure due to cold problems some people have reported, either. My tank is on my back deck, with the hose running in the window. Hubby put that flexible foam insulation tube over the hose, at least it won't be out in the freezing rain, etc.

Find yourself one, you'll be sooo happy!!

I have a question for you all whose MAPP cannisters have frozen: Do you turn your HH off after each bead?

I started out on a HH and never had a tank freeze on me. I was wondering if it was because I turned off the torch after each and every bead.

Just curious.

I have two BBQ tanks with Chemo-lene. I trade out when one is empty and take the empty for a refill. It only costs me $18+/- to get it filled. This is MUCH less than the map gas 1 lb tanks. Chemo-lene is the same thing as Mapp gas, but a different name brand.