Lampwork Etc.

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-   -   Propane in the House? NO! (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412)

MikeAurelius 2005-06-11 11:35am

Propane in the House? NO!
 
From the MSDS for propane:

"DANGER! Fires impinging (direct flame) on the outside surface of unprotected pressure storage vessels of Propane can be very dangerous. Direct flame exposure on the container wall can cause an explosion by BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion). This is a catastrophic failure of the vessel releasing the contents into a massive fireball and explosion. The resulting fire and explosion can result in severe equipment damage (meaning fire trucks!) and personnel injury or death over a large area around the vessel. For massive fires in large areas, use unmanned hose holder or monitor nozzels; if this is not possible, withdraw from the area and allow fire to burn."

This is a 'hot' topic, and we might as well get it discussed right off the bat. My intention is not to point any fingers but to get an idea of how many people are working safely with propane, and how many are not.

For those who aren't, what can we do to convince you to get that propane outside where it belongs?

barclayb 2005-06-11 1:06pm

Great topic! I'm not using propane yet and this will help me set my studio up safely when I do.

Nicker 2005-06-11 1:08pm

I can't vote, mine is kept in the welding shop beside the studio.

CorriDawn 2005-06-11 1:57pm

Mine is kind of an other. My tank is in my garage. I know, it probably should be outside.

sadiesmom 2005-06-11 1:59pm

Hi Mike,

My response isn't up there. When my tank is being used, I bring it into the garage and hook it up. Now, I can't say it doesn't stay in the garage overnight sometimes, but if I know I'm not going to be torching for a few days, it does go outside of the garage.

I had no idea you lived in MN until this new forum was started. If you ever come down to the twin cities area, I would love to impose on your time and knowledge and get your opinion on how my studio could be improved.

Thrilled to see you over here!!!
Denise

MikeAurelius 2005-06-11 3:00pm

If the garage is attached to the house, that is considered part of the house.

Are there any particular reasons people feel the need to keep the tank inside in or near the studio?

Nicker 2005-06-11 3:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeAurelius
If the garage is attached to the house, that is considered part of the house.

Are there any particular reasons people feel the need to keep the tank inside in or near the studio?

All though my tank is in the shop which is attached to the house,my set up was installed by a welder, inspected by the buliding inspector, insurance adjustor AND the fire chief. If they say it's safe I trust them. I think 2 layers of fireboard and the fire chiefs OK is good?

Dale M. 2005-06-11 5:00pm

Edit to nothing.

Dale

Jacinthe 2005-06-12 3:38am

I store my propane outside my house, and when I use it, I have it sitting outside my window with the hose running through the window.

Hugs from Holland,
Sarah

danelady 2005-06-12 7:17am

Tank in
 
WHen you are like me and haven't been able to GET an outdoor tank installed due to your BOONINESS of location, you do as I have been doing. The BBQ tank comes inside WHILE I AM TORCHING. I have a quick release and pop it off as soon as I am done, OUt it goes to the storage shed AWAY FOM THE HOUSE. WHen it IS inside, I have it about 20 feet from my work area, behind a door.

Outdoor tank SHOULD be here in a couple more months (PTL!)
Lynnie


Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeAurelius
If the garage is attached to the house, that is considered part of the house.

Are there any particular reasons people feel the need to keep the tank inside in or near the studio?


Dale M. 2005-06-12 8:42am

Edit to nothing.

Dale

danelady 2005-06-12 8:53am

UPDATED July 4th. Propane tank has been installed OUTSIDE, Ventiliation installed INSIDE!!

Woohoo!
Lynnie


I know you're not attacking me, honest! You won't hear any arguments from me! I have an appointment to have my propane installed outside, just on a waiting list! Hubby will be placing a rack outside my studio window for me to place my propane tank on, and hose it indoors till then. I Read all the thread, thank you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.
AAAARG........ Those are just the things and processes we don't want to hear... Mainly because it undercuts all the work we have been doing to promote safety... Suggest you put torching on hold till you can safely keep tank OUTSIDE at all times and have a proper connection piped into studio.

No this is not a attack on you, it is a just a comment on that the processes you are going by is flawed and that it is inherently dangerous even though you profess to try to do things safely.

Dale


bclogan 2005-06-13 5:42am

My tank sits next to me while I work, but I'm working outside on the deck. As part of setting up my back room for torching, hubby is running a NG line into the room, so I won't need the tank anymore... except on nice days when I work out on the deck!

Barbara

MikeAurelius 2005-06-14 6:04am

--bump--

beadstillmyheart 2005-06-16 4:53am

Where do I go to see safety issue things for HH use? Is there some sort of checklist for all this stuff (propane or otherwise) somewhere that is concise?

MikeAurelius 2005-06-16 6:15am

At the Art Glass Forum http://www.artglassforum.com

there are several sub fora, one on Safety, one on Technical Information. There are several dozen "white papers" that can be read all dealing directly or indirectly with torches and the Hot Head in particular.

WhiskerWood 2005-06-16 12:03pm

I have my propane tank set up with a quick connect.
I bring it in to work and I take it out when I am finished...
I have a propane/natural gas sensor plugged in with battery back up and it is floor level...
So I feel mostly safe…
Eventually I will get it to where it comes in from outside but who knows when that will be…

starlia 2005-06-21 9:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorriDawn
Mine is kind of an other. My tank is in my garage. I know, it probably should be outside.

Mine is in the garage too.

Dale M. 2005-06-22 7:30am

I know that this will cause discontent and I was thrashed for commenting on this subject before. But what is the justificatioin in having your propane tanks inside....

Its against NFPA codes, most municipal codes and it is dangerous....

Dale

Moth 2005-06-22 7:44am

Dale, would you knock it off with the deleting your posts thing...I really wanna read the darn things blast it! I missed your posts for a long time, now you're teasing me.

~~Mary

Dale M. 2005-06-22 8:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth
Dale, would you knock it off with the deleting your posts thing...I really wanna read the darn things blast it! I missed your posts for a long time, now you're teasing me.

~~Mary

Sorry..... From some feed back from a vocal person I got the feeling my post on propane safety were not welcome here, so I deleted them.... Walked away from it and decided that after somebody blows up their house and their neighbors and kills a few people and are walking around asking self "why me" (if they survive explosion) then I may explain it to them...

Dale

MikeAurelius 2005-06-22 8:56am

Dale............you are doing it again.........

Dale M. 2005-06-22 11:20am

I guess I can no longer post in this forum......... The SAFETY forum is no longer about safety.... It about who has approval to post here..........

Dale

Jilly Bean Beads 2005-06-22 11:48am

I appreciate your posts Dale. Keep vocalizing.

MikeAurelius 2005-06-22 12:23pm

Safety discussions can be handled in a mature, adult fashion.

Mr. Smiley 2005-06-22 4:32pm

Ding ding ding!

Gentlemen, go to your corners... no name calling or hitting below the belt. Play nice! :D

Mr. Smiley 2005-06-22 5:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.
I guess I can no longer post in this forum......... The SAFETY forum is no longer about safety.... It about who has approval to post here..........

Dale

Dale, you are welcome to post here. You are also welcome to handle how you approach safety issues, different than Mike. You don't need Mike's permission to post on this forum. Please play nice with eachother... we want this to be a friendly place. If you guys have personal issues, please don't fight it out here. PM or email eachother. You don't have to agree on topics... just be respectful when you post. :D

Jilly Bean Beads 2005-06-23 4:13am

Thank you Moderators - safety is so important for us all.

Su Poole 2005-06-24 2:25am

Hi, Dale,

We live on a boat and use propane for cooking. The safety issues are many and the regulations are amazingly stringent, we have to pass a safety certificate inspection every four years including a test of the entire gas system or else we fail. When we looked at torching aboard the boat (ventilation is not the issue as we have more ventilation per square foot than any house would, also due to the safety regs) and we could easily set up an exhaust system more than adequate for our needs, we would have been able to connect our torch to the plumbed-in propane line in the boat. However, to support your discussion about safety, our tanks are required to be stored outside the boat proper, in a specially constructed locker that has low-level drainage holes to allow the any gas that could leak to drain away safely outside the boat. It's not required but many boats also have gas detectors installed at floor level to detect any stray propane gas, our cooking appliances such as the hob and oven all have flame-failure devises on them and all other gas appliances such as fridges or hot water heaters or furnace/heaters must be vented to the outside and not draw in room air for their combustion chambers.

That said, we are lucky enough to have a mooring with room for a shed, so we keep our propane tank outside the shed, and Mike's installed a variation of the 'Barley Box' over his work space with venting to the outside above the torch, and a wooden baffle just above the torching area to catch the fumes and keep them in that space till they're exhausted.

We've seen a few boats burned out because people were careless and thought they were doing things the right way. Safety is vital, and education of boaters is no more easy than any other group. It wasn't till the government and the EU created all the stringent regulations that boats became much safer places to live aboard and yet two weeks ago a couple were hospitalized simply because they were stupid enough to be refilling a kerosene heater INDOORS while it was still hot. The boat is a complete loss. They're only very lucky they're alive.

I understand completely your desire to educate and keep everyone safe.

-Su

MikeAurelius 2005-06-24 6:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Dale, you are welcome to post here. You are also welcome to handle how you approach safety issues, different than Mike. You don't need Mike's permission to post on this forum. Please play nice with eachother... we want this to be a friendly place. If you guys have personal issues, please don't fight it out here. PM or email eachother. You don't have to agree on topics... just be respectful when you post. :D

My position is that I'd rather have an open, free of discord discussion on the merits of propane usage and installation.


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