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-   -   Devardi cracks (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145643)

J&M 2009-11-20 3:50pm

Yes, Daniel and Natasha have been nothing but nice, ready to assist in any way, and very speedy in their delivery whether it be a large or small order. And, IMHO, the Devardi glass has improved greatly since the first time it was introduced.

Jack

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-20 3:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalera (Post 2759393)
I don't recall Mike Frantz being on TAM... do you mean Mike Aurelius? He's not exactly a good example for the point you're trying to make... what with the multiple accounts, sock-puppetry, and belittling customers with problems.

I'm glad you've had good experiences with Daniel and Natasha. I went into that thread thinking I'd be interested in trying Devardi, and came out of it wanting nothing to do with it, largely based on their behavior. The reports of low quality cinched it for me. Your decision is fine, and so is mine.

LOL...Aurelius made me certain I'd buy from another manufacturer. I do mean Frantz. It was in regards to someone ordering glass to be shipped to Mexico, or some place in Central America and it wasn't pretty.

Kalera 2009-11-20 3:58pm

Oh, I do remember that. For some reason I thought it happened here... that was with Laura Brito, and he did replace the glass.

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-20 4:00pm

That's who it was, couldn't remember.

Even he got unpleasant on there, if you recall.

Frogsongstudio 2009-11-20 4:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by J&M (Post 2758837)
It seems that you're the one who has an agenda here Pam. Why on earth would I? I just kindly asked for you to help out some fellow lampworkers that have questions on other current threads. You've had plenty of opportunity to post here on this particular thread.

Jack

You have "kindly" done no such thing. Your post was pure sarcasm meant to look innocent when in fact it was not.

andreajane 2009-11-20 4:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalera (Post 2759373)
When I was figuring out how to price my boro beads, I did some calculating, breaking down the cost of glass in each bead. I was starting with the assumption that I would need to charge more for boro beads because boro color is about $40-50/lb. Clear is cheap, of course.

With my bracelet-sized beads, I get about 96 beads from each pound. Even if I make a set that's solid color, which I rarely do, that makes my materials cost just under .47 per bead assuming a cost of $45/lb. If I'm using Vetrofond, it would be 12.5 cents per bead. I could charge .34 cents more per bead for the boro, but really, whether a customer will pay that depends on how pretty the bead is, which depends pretty much entirely on how pretty the glass is, how well I work it, and how much effort (time) I put into the bead. So instead of basing my pricing on the cost of the glass, I focus on how long it takes me to make each bead... since my labor is the most expensive thing I'm putting into it. I've priced less-attractive beads made out of very expensive glass much lower than beautiful beads made out of cheaper glass.

The beauty and time factors are why a quality glass that's easy to work with are important to me. They're not necessarily important to everyone, but for me it's a prime consideration. Glass that's easy to work reduces the time I spend making each bead, which means that in a day I can be more productive and make more pretty beads, which in turn means I can price them more reasonably, sell more, and put more (figurative) food on the table at the end of the month.

That is my reasoning for spending more on better glass. It's not applicable to everyone's situation, it's just my personal answer to the "it's so inexpensive it will save you money, so why not?" question. In my specific situation, the way I use glass, it actually wouldn't save me money... same reason why expensive silver glasses, with their high beauty-for-the-dollar payoff, are worth it for me.

All of the beadmakers I've talked to about this before this thread (I'd guess about half a dozen) follow a similar process when it comes to pricing, as do I.


Andrea

J&M 2009-11-20 4:35pm

Now your accusing me of something??? Please get over yourself. All you're doing now is trying to start an argument. There's no need for it. What you're saying is a falsehood and I won't be here to comment further. You seem to be a very mean-spirited person, making insinuations and accusations for no reason.

Regards,
Jack

pam 2009-11-20 4:50pm

Wow, talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Jack, as I said before, people are allowed to post where and when they see fit, that includes me.

With regard to pricing, a long time ago I determined that each bead I make costs me less than $5 plus my hourly wage. I don't care if I use gold leaf or the BE lustres or whatever, my bead is never going to cost me more than $5. Of course if I wanted to figure in all my torches, kilns, tools, generator, education, practice, etc., etc., I think I would have to value each bead at $500 each. lol I determine the price of each bead according to how much I like it.

J&M 2009-11-20 5:37pm

](*,)

Kalera 2009-11-20 5:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff (Post 2759414)
That's who it was, couldn't remember.

Even he got unpleasant on there, if you recall.


I do remember him getting frustrated, but I don't remember him getting really unpleasant... though I don't typically remember conversations verbatim, more just the impressions I get from them at the time. All I really remember is that he seemed frustrated, she seemed frustrated, and in the end they worked it out with no hard feelings.

lunamoonshadow 2009-11-20 6:42pm

Anyone who has read my posts over time probably remembers that I frequently and freely admit that more of my beads end up in the ''practice/wonky'' pile than in the ''suitable for sale'' pile! I love my torch & playing with glass though!

raindance 2009-11-22 10:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firemagic (Post 2754264)
When I first started using Devardi, I experienced some cracking issues. Then I realized I was using too hot a flame. I reduced the flame as stated on the Devardi website, and I worked the glass much cooler. I have no cracking problems anymore to speak of. I suspect Karin made the same mistake. I have made many beads now with Devardi and I just donít have problems with it. It works great. On the Devardi website there are videos that show you how to use the glass cooler, and also how to successfully combine and encase the glass with Moretti and silver glasses and other brands. Iíve combined and encased Devardi with a number of brands with no problem. Just keep the flame cooler.

This must be why I never had many problems with Divardi. I tend to work much cooler because, when I first started, I roasted the heck out of my transparent colors...so I started backing off into the cooler part of the flame. Then when I started doing sculptural beads, the cooler part of the flame is the best place to work...at least for me it is.

One thing I learned about Divardi Dark Rose: when I tried using it to make veins in my leaf pendants, it cracked the Vetrofond White I was using as a base. It doesn't seem to have any problems with goldstone or aventurine, though.


I always use a Golden Hot to warm my rods, no matter what rods I'm using, so I never have issues with any rods cracking to bits on me...not even the colors that are infamous for exploding to bits. The Divardi Rose looks great etched, though. I use it by itself to make flowers, then etch the flowers.


I love almost all of the kinds of glass out there. They all have their pros and cons, it's just a matter of learning how to cope with them. The brand I had the very most trouble with was ASK...it's the only one I finally had to quit using, though I LOVED the colors so much!:cry:

MariJohnson 2009-11-23 1:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreajane (Post 2759123)
OK...then him talking about himself in the third person while discussing problems with his product has helped me make up my mind.

Thanks.


Andrea

I've got no dog in this fight, but have read the entire thing from start to finish, then went back and re-read to see where it went bad. I have insomnia and hoped I'd get bored and want to sleep, but it was like a puzzle, as I'd never seen the other threads. I have had *real* trouble, and haven't kept up on all the threads.

Wow!

Everything seemed reasonable until this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firemagic (Post 2755376)
I find it very odd that you would even be using this glass, Karin. Last year you did nothing but trash the glass. And now you start this thread with more negativity. Why, after all your intense opposition to the glass a year ago would you go ahead and use it? And why would you start an entire thread based on your (alleged) negative results when there are other viable threads to discuss the glass. It seems to me you are just up to your old tricks. You are still just trying to hurt the owners of Devardi Glass. Pretty sad.

I wondered why the vendor would fail to identify himself, and I re-read again, Kalera and Pam's other posts, and I found their posts thoughtful and really helpful until Daniel & company got so snarky. It went downhill from there. All those posts incognito? Why? It seems deceitful.

Just because some of those who posted here haven't had problems, doesn't give anyone the right to shout down those who have, even if they have opposing views or experience with the glass.

And regarding other vendors, they've all paid their dues by standing behind their products for 10, 15, 20 years... That's how you earn the respect of your customers and their repeat business. If you go off half cocked like this, you only alienate anyone else who stumbles on to this thread.

Sorry, but I hate deceit.

andreajane 2009-11-23 2:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariJohnson (Post 2762356)
Sorry, but I hate deceit.

Conflict is upsetting, but hiding who you are when you respond to it pretty much guarantees it will never get resolved. In my opinion.


Andrea

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-23 4:17am

I have to disagree. I think things went downhill when the first person who has never used the glass said it was not worth the effort.

Then there were the quotes from a glass which may or may not be the same glass, since it wasn't sold under the same name in 2002.

Then there was the worthless and throw it away bit, too.

I'd like to know how you guys say you know it's Daniel posting under that ID, also.

andreajane 2009-11-23 4:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff (Post 2762392)
I have to disagree. I think things went downhill when the first person who has never used the glass said it was not worth the effort.

Then there were the quotes from a glass which may or may not be the same glass, since it wasn't sold under the same name in 2002.

Then there was the worthless and throw it away bit, too.

I'd like to know how you guys say you know it's Daniel posting under that ID, also.

Is any of that stuff in this thread, besides the part about Daniel's possible identity? Because Mari's perspective, if I read her correctly, is that IN THIS THREAD things started to go downhill at the post she quoted. Almost everyone I know can't just move on from what they perceive as unfair treatment, including me, so if you and others who like and support Devardi are still feeling upset about previous conflicts I totally get that. But newcomers who only see part of a story form their opinions based on information available. I think that was also part of Mari's point.

I have made no claims about who Firemagic is because I have no idea. I do trust Kalera based on years of reading her posts and interacting with her online. If Firemagic wants to publicly claim his or her actual identity, that would resolve at least part of this. And if Firemagic isn't Daniel...where is Daniel?


Andrea

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-23 4:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by andreajane (Post 2762393)
Is any of that stuff in this thread, besides the part about Daniel's possible identity? Because Mari's perspective, if I read her correctly, is that IN THIS THREAD things started to go downhill at the post she quoted. Almost everyone I know can't just move on from what they perceive as unfair treatment, including me, so if you and others who like and support Devardi are still feeling upset about previous conflicts I totally get that. But newcomers who only see part of a story form their opinions based on information available. I think that was also part of Mari's point.

I have made no claims about who Firemagic is because I have no idea. I do trust Kalera based on years of reading her posts and interacting with her online. If Firemagic wants to publicly claim his or her actual identity, that would resolve at least part of this. And if Firemagic isn't Daniel...where is Daniel?


Andrea

I''l reply to my post and link to the posts I'm talking about-all on the first page of the thread.

Daniel and Natasha said they wouldn't post any more. A very long time ago.

likes to make glass stuff 2009-11-23 4:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff (Post 2762392)
I have to disagree. I think things went downhill when the first person who has never used the glass said it was not worth the effort.

Then there were the quotes from a glass which may or may not be the same glass, since it wasn't sold under the same name in 2002.

Then there was the worthless and throw it away bit, too.

I'd like to know how you guys say you know it's Daniel posting under that ID, also.

1) http://lampworketc.com/forums/showpo...09&postcount=5

2) http://lampworketc.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=13

3) http://lampworketc.com/forums/showpo...0&postcount=18

andreajane 2009-11-23 4:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by likes to make glass stuff (Post 2762404)
I''l reply to my post and link to the posts I'm talking about-all on the first page of the thread.

Daniel and Natasha said they wouldn't post any more. A very long time ago.

Thank you...I was wrong and I stand corrected.


Andrea


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