Need advice please!
 

Hi everyone,

First off, what a wonderful place this is. I've gone through tons of threads, looked at some awesome tutorials, and found some very informative and helpful posts. Plus, some of your beads are just absolutely gorgeous!

Now for the advice seeking part of this post:

I'm getting back in to lampworking, 13 years after being burned and basically throwing in the towel. I was a teen and well, I'm older and maybe not wiser, but braver now :) I asked my mother for my recent birthday for a lampworking kit, as that is how I had gotten into it years ago. She was confused with all the options and basically gave me a card with money.

After searching various websites, I am confused. Please correct me if I'm wrong but from what I gather, if I start with a Hot Head torch, I can't work with boro glass? I saw it referred to as borosilicate Pyrex at www.sundanceglass.com. To work with boro I will need a more expensive propane/oxygen torch with tubes and regulators, etc...?

Way back when, I had a lil Hot Head, a MAPP canister attached to my table...and I used what glass my mom had given me. (I was 16, cut me a little slack for not remember what exactly).

I have about $300 to spend to get started. Definitely not much after looking at all the supplies (and glass!) that are out there. In ya'lls experienced opinions, with my limited funds, is my best and really only option to start with the Hot Head and in time upgrade? I'm trying to get lucky on ebay right now and win a Nortel minor burner with hoses for under $100 (please PLEASE don't go bidding against me). That leaves $200 for other supplies. What are the MUST haves for either set-up?

What 3 glass web-sites do you have bookmarked (don't count this one!)?
Specifically for supplies?
How do the prices at http://www.generationsglass.com/ compare to your most frequented sites?

I thought this would be easier to get back into. Boy oh boy, this is making the last year with my 1 year old look like cake :lol: I do tend to complicate, over-research, and confuse things...if you can't tell. By the way, I will gladly make some "OMG thank-you so much for your help" beads for any good advice after I get set-up and started (and I can make something presentable).

Thanks ahead of time for your words of wisdom (or experience). And let me know if you have any questions for me :)

-Jenne

For beads there seems to be quite a difference between what you can and cannot do with boro vs soft glass. (like if you want to decorate your bead with a whole bunch of little raised balls, use soft glass, not boro, etc). And with boro you need oxygen-so it's either the cost of an O2 generator or tanked oxy. Which means that soft glass would better fit your budget. I never worked with soft glass (on boro for 15 yrs) but I have seen real nice soft glass work. Hope this helps. Good luck. (I hold an ice cube on a burn for about 1/2 hour. Usually it doesn't blister. Even though I have over 50 aloe plants growing year-round in my yard, I find that ice works best for me.)

Jenne, if you win the minor burner (and good luck BTW, sounds like a great price) and hoses you will still need either two regulators, one for propane and one for oxygen, or one regulator for propane and an oxygen concentrator. Those are pricey, $400 to $500 I think, so renting an oxygen tank and buying oxygen is cheaper. Two regulators, tank rental, and gas and oxygen is going to run you at least $150 to $200. A hothead costs $40 and I think the gas canisters are like $10 to $12 at Home Depot or any hardware store.

HOWEVER, and this a big however......you need to read about safety in the safety section. You need a fan to pull bad air away and clean air needs to come in from another source.

I can't stress this enough, think about your safety first, ventilation is a must, not a choice.

I started on a hothead, knew nothing about ventilation at first and after becoming sick (headaches, nausea, trouble breathing) I finally got online, found this forum, and found people who helped me to be safe. All you have to do is go to the 'Safety' section of this forum and read or use the search function above. You can find everything you need to know.

So......welcome back to the glassy fold. :) HTH!:waving:

I'm trying to figure out the oxygen aspect if I do win the minor burner. This may be a stupid question, but can I run the minor burner with just the propane until I figure out the oxy problem? The place I plan to set-up, I may be able to actually tap into the propane tank....if I can sweet talk my step-dad into doing the splitting and hose set-up for me. I'm soooo mechanically un-inclined (is that even correct?) it's scary.
I remember having good ventilation when I did beads years ago, but had actually forgotten all about it until it was mentioned....thank-you, and my bad for skipping the safety aspect.

For burns now (I cook constantly, home-made baby food etc.., so I get burnt alot), I soak my burn in milk for 15 minutes then put Preparation-H and a bandage...no blisters. You'd think I'd learn to be more careful, but the truth of it is, I was born accident prone and it seems the harder I try to be safe, the more accidents happen. I actually got told off for wanting to get back into bead making because of my accident prone nature.

Anywho, still interested in more helpful advice and any links to web-sites you all may deem 'marvelous'.

Bed-time for now, thanks for the input so far!

NO!

I'd start with the hot head if you are limited on $$$, and annealing bubbles from artco, then find someone to batch anneal your beads.

Great advice David! I second what he's said here!

Oh, and welcome back to glass! I know you're gonna love it - again! :lol:

As for annealing, I can batch anneal in a small slumping kiln my mom has....well, as long as she still has it *crosses fingers*. She has a couple very large kilns to fire her pottery, but I don't think she'd appreciate my running those for a few handfuls of beads.

Unless someone last minute outbids me, looks like I will win that Nortel. I'm simply going to have to come up with more money, or some super smart thrifty thinking. Where my husband works, they rent an oxygen tank, for $100/mo I believe. They use quite a bit though, so I can probably ask his boss who he gets his oxy from and perhaps make a quantity deal. I'd probably just have to bring it there for refilling. IF they do smaller tanks. Hubby said I can probably get smaller regulators for what I need for about $45...does that sound accurate?

Do ya'll recommend the annealing bubbles over fiber blanket for cooling my beads? The cost seems close enough that I would prefer whichever is better.

Jenne, if the small slumping kiln is glass only that is great. When I bought my kiln originally my intention was to do clay and glass in it. Before I did that I did some reading and found that if you do clay and glass in the same kiln it ruins the glass, makes it cloudy and scummy. I don't know if that's true because I never tried it but you might want to be aware of that.

Good luck on the Nortel, I hear it's a wonderful torch. I never used the annealing bubbles but were I to start again now that's what I'd go with.

I have no idea what oxygen prices run in VA but I rent tanks and pay 40.00 *a year* for one tank rental and then $16.00 each time I have it filled. I do know that oxygen costs and tank rentals vary widely depending on where you are (I'm in Texas).

I have an O2 regulator I can send you for $30.00- that is less than half what I paid for it. It is in good condition. I was using it for my propane but I got a new one and there is nothing wrong with this one. Would you like it? If so, PM me...

Also...regarding the O2, I use tanked oxygen and the place where I get it from allowed me to buy a tank when I was just starting out. So I own the tank and I have it refilled when it is empty. It is basically the smallest size one can reasonably use without running out once every two hours. Once you go up from there, I believe they are rental only (now I rent larger tanks, as my oxygen consumption has increased). I also found that I use MUCH less oxygen on a Lynx than I did when I was on a Minor torch, but I certainly understand your decision to buy the Minor, considering your price restrictions. I used a Minor for about a year and a half, and it was great for a first dual-fuel torch. The GTT torches (which the Lynx is) are known for being very fuel-efficient, so if you decide to upgrade you will save on fuel. Hope this helps.

Astrid, the kiln I was thinking of is used for both...but then I asked my mom about it and she says she was given a smaller kiln I may be able to use. She said it's like 1'x1'...which I really can't picture so I'm thinking it may be a bit larger than that.
I found a place that does tank rentals, the lease fee is $60/year no matter the tank size, and the 4 1/2 ft one is $25 to have it filled. I have to take it to them or it's a $25 delivery fee.

I have some PMs in to people for various tools, so hopefully I'll get some responses soon. It looks like I may be able to stay on budget without having to wait for some extra cash. Of course, I may end up with all the tools and such but no glass lol.

Anyone know where I can get good eye protection without spending a fortune? The cheapest I see for working with boro has been $90 and that's just...ouch!

You all have been so great with your advice and help, I do appreciate it and I'm so looking forward to making ya'll some thank-you beads :)

You should be able to order clipon boro shades for under $40, and then clip them to any glasses.

You might also check around on the oxygen refills. When I first moved to this area, I got refills from one place, but I was able to open an account with National Oxygen and get a much better price. Refills went from about $25 to about $15. And don't forget about ventilation. It really is a must, and you really make yourself sick if you don't have it...I know from experience. If your hubby is handy, he may be able to set up an exhaust fan for you using a kitchen range hood, which is pretty cheap, especially if you can find a used one. Oh check the Garage on LE for glass shorts or inexpensive tools to help get you started.

I bought everything I needed to start from Delphi Glass (cringe) for around, I think, $130 bucks. HotHead, mounting bracket, C-clamp, rod rest, starter glass, fiber blanket, crappy glasses (that weren't diddy's at all). Everything.

That's before I found the lampwork forums and other vendors of glass.

It's on sale for $114.95, but the Hotline bead release is crap…too much graphite. Frustrating for a newbie to keep breaking the release, but on the other hand good for a newbie to practice having a light touch…

http://www.delphiglass.com/flamework...aking-kit.html

It's just an example. Of course I found other suppliers that had quite a bit more and charged quite a bit less for shipping, but I didn't know any better. Perhaps this might get you started though.

My favorite glass supply website is http://howaco.com/

I like this site best of all b/c I can buy 1 rod of any glass she sells. Super cost effective for trying new colors. If you like other COE's, not just 104, you can get a sweet Bullseye sample pack (107 rods) for only $55! The rods are considered 1/2 rods, but since Bullseye rods are a standard 17" long (very looooooong), 7.5" inches is a nice size to work with. Bullseye is COE 90 and I love it b/c I tend to burn and bubble the crap out of COE 104 glass. I also like COE 96 glass, which you can also buy by the rod or 1/4, 1/2, or 1 lb. increments from Howaco.

Jenne, Hi. Along with all the other awesome advise from everyone in here, I wanted to add to budget in a good book ($29-59). I had one class and then was on my own from there. The books will give you information on safety (please don't overlook the safety issues), techniques, suppliers and just really good information. You might keep your eye out in the garage sale for one, or check Amazon.com.
Have fun gathering for your adventure!

I would stay away from those "starter kits". Only about half of the stuff in them is useful long term and not good quality. since you are getting back into glass it suggests you will stay with it for some time. Start slow to acumulate tools, many can be made from 'found' items around the house. Try to buy good quality but don't splurge for 'name' higher priced tools. Keep checking the forums for advice.. people always share when they run into good stuff especially if it is cheap or found in a non glass source. Example; glass scribe/cutter, $15.00 from glass suppliers, $5.95 for exact same tool at Home Depot or Lowes.
Welcome back.
PJH

If you get the minor, check hobbiesforus.com for an oxygen concentrator. It will run your torch great for soft glass and pay for itself very quickly when compared to tanked oxygen!
Mary T.

Thought I'd add some more.

You can use a simple rock from the driveway to scribe glass rod and cut it.
A lot of people use a butter knife to shape and marver their glass. use a file to shape how you want it.
Graphite is great but a piece of granite (or tile) will work for a marver plate.
Harbor Freight is a great source for cheap tools; balance quality against time/amount of use.
Putty knife, sharpened srewdriver, exacto knife for shaping. Smaller one can be used as a pin vise
Sharpen your own tingsten welding electrode and epoxy in a wooden dowel for a pick ($3.00 at most)
BBQ tongs flattened for mashers.
Home made tongs for holding/moving marbles... if you do marbles. Drew Frit's book shows how to make one.
Metal jar lids to hold frit. Remove any lining ,material so you have bare metal
Kitchen drawer dividers to hold and organize stringers.
PVC drain pipe to make glass rod storage racks. Keep a good notebook/journal of what/how you do things for later.
Join a glass society in or near your area. Check the ISGB site for leads to one; good networking.
The list goes on and on.
PJH

You can do a lot on a Hothead torch.
I've been using one for over 7 years and have no immediate plans to "upgrade".
A HH is a great way to learn heat control because you are forced to slow down.
Like PJH said, you only need a torch, a tank, glass and a few tools found around the house.
My main tools:
Tweezers
Pick
Pottery spatula
Graphite marver

There's nothing I can't do that I want to with these limited tools and a few colors! :D

Good Luck!

And ventilation! Let's not forget one of the most important things...please protect yourself and have proper ventilation, not just a fan that moves the air around.

Have fun!

I started with a hothead and then upgraded to a minor, oxycon etc.
If I knew then what De can produce on a hothead I'm not sure I would bother with the 'upgrade', except the minor is nice and quiet.
I concur with everyone else on the whole 'starter packs have a lotta stuff you won't use thing'...then again I have also bought a lotta stuff I never use (lens press tong things anyone?)
If you're not in a rush hang out in the garage and get the bits you need, if you're in a rush get a starter kit...might as well start the 'shiny things you never use' collection sooner rather than later :)

Check out the medical oxy places, you should be able to get one for cheap, there is no difference between medical and hobby....I FOUND 2 in the street on garbage day and have never bought or hassled with tanked oxy (but tanked does run hotter) At the glass school we went through like 4 oxy tanks to each propane.....well worth getting a concentrator. 10 lpm much better than 5 or even 2-5's....

Time to mention that finding 2 in the street trash is a fluke... and was probably illegal. Most states have rules against selling a medical unit without a perscription....unless it is first sold to an intermediary company that then clearly marks it as 'Not for medical use'. I would guess that there are rules re disposal as well. There are other points to the law but that is the basic one for this discussion. Perhaps New Jersey does not have such a law. Where is Paulette when you need her expertise;-)? She sold units some time back and would know all the particulars.
PJH

probably most of us that own oxygen concentrators own them "illegally". I wouldn't worry about that bit at all. 99.9% of medical oxygen concentrator sales companies will not sell one for hobby use at all, but most individuals that are reselling one could not care less. I got one of mine from someone like that :).

When I get a chance, I need to catch up on the already great advice I'm missed since my phone line was cut yesterday. Checking quickly at work..

Any advice on a couple books/authors I can keep an eye for?

Will check back here soon...living without internet at home is awful! :O

I'm checking out the kiln my mother is letting me use for annealing. Off the top of my head I can't remember the brand of it. I do know it uses a cone for firing and well...don't really see a cone for as low at 968 temp for annealing COE 104 glass. Does it depend on the kiln? Do I need to get something to read the temp manually and do it all manual?

I guess it would help to know the kiln brand and I can find that out tomorrow. Until then, any info would be appreciated. Oh, and I should be getting my book soon so maybe I can stop asking ya'll so many questions :O

Jenne, if the kiln uses a cone it's not a glass kiln.

Honestly, if I was in your situation I would go with a Hot Head and a bulk tank. You can get one from a welding supplier. They charge a yearly lease rate and refills on the tanks are reasonable. These tanks last a long time!

If you go with the minor burner, you have to do the oxygen. That is where you are going to be running into more money very quickly! I honestly don't think your hubby's company will work with you because they are paying the leases on those tanks and are ultimately responsible.

I have the annealing bubbles from ARTCO (do batch annealing) and love them! Buy the bag and put them in an old crockpot.

As for supplies, all you need is:

* a decent size graphite paddle

* tungston pick although I end up using the end of a mandrel LOL

* mandrels

* cheap pliers for grabbing and pulling stringers

*safety wire pliers for cutting thin mandrels and taking beads off

* a couple of pin vices and a regular razor (old fashion kind) for cutting into molten glass

*bead reamer for cleaning the bead release

I'll think of more later.

Good luck,

Sara

I'm with Sara about getting the hothead set up first. If you go the other route, $300.00 will not buy you everything you need. Also I think with a hothead it's easier at first for you to learn control because you would be working slower. It would be less frustrating for you too. Here are my additions to Sara's list:

ventilation
tweezers (i use mine all of the time)
hemostat (nice to have for grabbing hot mandrels if needed and glass)
propane regulator (for use with a bbq tank when using a hothead)
bead release
exacto knife
butter knife (buy from thrift store)
vice grips (i use mine for taking my beads off the mandrel every time)

I'll come back to this thread later as I think more about this. It's been a long time since I've had this setup.

Patsy

If you end up getting a HH, then don't worry, this is the perfect torch to start with, in my personal opinion. I used mine for 18 months and loved it. I still do, and right now I'm preparing to hook it back up as soon as I can get a 60lb propylene tank delivered. There are a lot of beads I can make on that torch that my Bobcat and generator are just too hot for, :)