Need Generator Advice!
 

Mods, feel free to move this if it is not in the appropriate place.

I'm looking to purchase a generator with this year's tax refund to run a Lynx really well or a Cheetah decently (not both at the same time) However, I'm confused by all the different types out there. Is there anyone who ~owns~ one and can recommend their brand and where they purchased it? I need some buying advice!! :-k

Well, I did find one thread about them...

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ight=generator

but I would still love to hear from other owners :) [-o<

I heard that there will be a OG-20 coming out soon that is supposed to be WAY better than the OG-15...
But other than that I don't know anything about them...

I have two concentrators and they run my Lynx great!

Do you really mean generator or are you talking about a concentrator?

nope I know the difference. I have a concentrator now and it doesn't have enough OOMPH and I want to do boro and not have it take all day :)

I use a lynx and have used 1 concentrator, 2 concentrators, a generator and now a generator with a holding tank. (OG15) I'm considering upgrading to the OG20 when it comes out.

I purchased my OG15 used and I haven't been completely happy with it. It could have been damaged in shipping somehow but I don't know. maybe my expectations were just too high. I've spent hours on the phone trying to figure it out and now just think that's how it works. I thought getting the holding tank would mean it would turn off for a while while I worked but it doesn't. The tank does give you an added reserve of oxygen so it does run with more O2 output than without it. That is a big bonus.

Working straight from the generator (without the additional $500 holding tank) I felt was the same as 2 concentrators.

Don't get me wrong...right now the generator and holding tank are my set up of choice but I would go with the OG20 if I were just now making my first decision to buy one.

The M-30 is coming out and it's a concentrator. It will put out 20 LPM at 30 PSI, which is a LOT of Oomph, for much less $$$. The M-20 is what JC is running her Cuda on and she's loving how it melts boro. I haven't tried that set up myself, but the expensive generators are a thing of the past in my opinion. ;) :love:

Do tell what the M30 concentrator is!

The M-30 is a concentrator I can't wait to get my hands on. The company has already released the M-10 and M-20. Those are 10 LPM units. The M-10 is 10 PSI and the M-20 is 20 PSI. They are finishing up the M-30... it's going to be an awesome unit. I'll have to check on the M-10 and M-20 prices... it's VERY reasonable and they are quiet like a mouse. ;) The M-30 hasn't been priced yet, but it's sure to be the best value. :love:

Brent,

Do you know if these concentrators can handle the humidity in our type of climate? The reason I chose my Airsep AS-12A generator (the high pressure one @ $2400, ouch!) over the OG-15 is because supposedly it can run well in humid climates. (no problems with it yet!) I've heard and read that the OG-15 sieve beds can become saturated and damaged from humidity and those machines like 70% or less. You know as well as I do that we have near 100% most of the year, lol!

I'm kind of regretting the fact that I spent so much on mine, but I did buy it nearly two years ago, and that's long before the new and much lower priced machines came out. I would like to look into something else in the future to run a Barracuda to its optimum performance without the use of tanks, I hope. :)

Sorry, I don't mean to butt into the thread with my questions, but it's something to consider before buying! ;)

no, that's a great question! I live in Alabama and we have humidity about 85% of the time so it is pertinent to me as well. ;)

Who makes the M-20 and M-30? will they be available through one of the lampwork suppliers or is it something that is purchased direct?

I will be carrying them. Generations and Art Glass House has them too. I'll double check the humidity thing... I know it hasn't been mentioned as a problem. People run other concentrators down here without a problem... but it's definitely a question better answered early. :D

I have the M-20 and I haven't had any problems with it. I also have a studio with a/c but when I work in the summer it is still humid since the windows are open for the vent fan (though I do work at night not during the heat of the day.
When I am not working the studio stays 78 degrees (a/c) in the summer.
I haven't had my concentrator for very long got it when they first came out. I love it, it's pretty quiet I love that it doesn't have that screeching alarm like the medical concentrators!!

lol I just realized the other thread is the one I started.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to insinuate that you didn't know the difference just maybe misspoke or did like I do some times with my dyslexia... thinking one thing and fingers type another...hehehe

No worries! I should have said I wanted to upgrade from a 5 lpm concentrator to a generator and that would probably have made it more clear :)

Hey Mr. Smiley, can you PM me some more info on the M-30, like when you might have some available? :cool:

BUMP!
Brent... I'm VERY interested in the M30... any news yet?

Me too. Can you post it here or pm and and let me know when they will be available and how much they are? Thanks very much.

I just sold my OG15 and holding tank and replaced it with an Integra10 from Paulette at Suncoast Beads.

Holy CRAP! I don't know if they're along the same lines as the others you're talking about (I saw them in Tucson and think they might be) but it was $1530 (almost half of what the OG15 and tank costs new). I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner. I think we need a smiley for that. ::kick kick kick::

Oh, and it's a lot quieter and takes up about 1/3 the space, which was my main reason for selling the OG15.

My Integra 10 from Paulette ROCKS my world!!!.....But, I'm working on a Nortel Midrange, doing mostly boro beads.....so some people think that I'm easily rocked. :rolleyes: Gives me MORE than enough heat, and I have to admit that I was a bit skeptical at first. Won't ever want to go back to hauling tanks again!

Peace,
Suzee

The line between a concentrator and a generator is fuzzy at best! :biggrin:

Paulette's Integra 10 is called a concentrator, and its output exceeds OGSI's OG-15 'generator'.

I vote for the Integra 10 any day! It's an awesome machine and isn't supposed to be bothered by humidity. I checked because it's humid here on the Olympic Peninsula... I've been running my Barracuda on one for almost a year now. And it has no filters to change-- you just wash the spongy pre-filter on the top of the unit once in a while (I can't remember how often the literature says to do it).

Would not recommend an OGSI machine to anyone (I had one with a holding tank), but the M-20 and M-30 sound great!

lynne

Bump!

I will go out on a limb and say I'm not sold on the M-20. I've seen a few side by side comparisons, and it doesn't put out the kind of pressure I like.
I feel like the Integra10 is more like a tank of oxy. Turn it on and go.
JMHO

Well, we have used a generator with a holding tank once. The only reason I see for getting a generator at this point is if you want a holding tank too.

We have an M20, and have had some issues with it. If I was going to do it again, I would spend the extra money and get the integra 10 which we have also had the opportnity to use. We have a barracuda and both machines run it very hot.

Any new suggestions-ithis thread is a few months old....Which concentrator,generator for use with Cheetah and a G-Tec 30?

It is my understanding that the M20 is being discontinued (purity issues) and an M15 will be added to the line-up. Did Kristian start carrying them again? I thought he had discontinued them.

Anyway, the M10 outran the M20 when GTT tested some units recently (So. Central sent some replacement units :)). The M10 ran the Lynx at about 50-60%. This is actually pretty good, especially for soft glass. It ran the Bobcat at full throttle.

I run a Lynx, the centerfire of my Phantom (same as my Lynx), and a Cheetah on an Integra10 (not at the same time). It puts out 10 lpm at 9 psi. The Lynx needs around 10-15 psi oxygen to get the most out of it. So, the Integra10 runs it at about 90% or so. There's just a little bit on that top end that it can't get.

EDIT: I just saw that this was an old thread that was bumped up. If you are working soft glass or small/mediumish boro, I would recommend the Integra10 for the Cheetah. It runs nicely for those applications. Pam Dugger uses an OG20 on a Cheetah and is happy with it for her work.

Yes, I purchased the OG-20 with my Cheetah and cannot praise it enough. It is wonderful. I do not get the full range of the Cheetah, but I would guesstimate at approximately 75%. Since I never ran the Cheetah full anyway that small amount doesn't affect me. The purity is exquisite - never a reductive flame, unles I dial it in. It is a wonderful machine.

Now this is what i get for not staying up with the boards!!
I have been working so hard lately I haven't had much of a chance to catch up here.

I have an M-20 and I was impressed at first but then I realized it wasn't nearly as hot as two used cocentrators together so I hooked on of my used conscetrators up and am running both on my Minor. I like to work hot.

I bought mine from Kristen, I didn't know he discontinued them. Kim, do you know why? Now I am wishing I had spent $300 less and gone with the M10.


Kim Cook

Well, I cannot find the post I remembered. Maybe it is not on this forum, or maybe whatever problem there was has been resolved and the post was deleted.

But, there were problems with purity, which is why you aren't seeing the heat you had with two linked concentrators. I don't know what anyone plans to do, but there is a 6 month warranty in place. If your M20 isn't performing as it should, and your purchase was recent enough to be covered, you could see about having it repaired/replaced. I have read about So. Central Cryo./Unlimited Oxygen standing behind their products. I know that they are working with GTT on resolving the problem about the bad units they got. So, you should be taken care of, I would think.

And people said I was being mean when I said those units wouldnt last long...they're already discontinuing them :lol:

Justin, maybe you should hold off on the "I told you so" until there is some kind of official announcement.

I said that "it was my understanding" that the M20 was being pulled. Until the company puts out an offical statement or takes some kind of action, no one really knows what's going to happen. For all I know, they could have changed their minds about it.

Has there ever been any real official announcements?

You've got a good point, there.

I'm running 2 M-20's and am really really impressed. I took them up to Asheville and back without any issues. I noticed I had a flashback arrestor inline with it and removed it. It's even better now. I can get the bacon sizzle sound on the top end out of my Cheetah and it powers the Cuda perfectly. I sure hope they don't get rid of these units. I love mine. I'm sorry to tell you Justin (not really), but I think they are still gonna give you a run for your money. :lol:

All the sound means is that the pressure is there. You can get the pressure, but not necessarily the heat. If you aren't getting the heat, you're just blowing air.

The M10 that GTT tested produced more heat than the M20. This is because the purity from the M20 was not so good. The pressure was there, but the purity was lacking, and the resulting heat was not as great from the M20 as from the M10.



If a 10 lpm machine can run the 'cuda at 60% (reports from guys running that torch on an Integra10), then a 20 lpm machine should be more than enough to power the 'cuda all the way. Yet, Brent, you yourself said that you run the M20's around 15 lpm (to get good purity?) or so and that is why you had two to power the Barracuda. You aren't even getting the full 20 lpm/each out of your units as it is. Why would retiring the M20 and putting in an M15 be a bad thing, then, if it runs at the full 15 lpm? It would stand to reason that if 10 lpm runs the torch at 60%, something putting out 16.7 lpm would get the torch to it's full power, or close to it. And, 15 psi is right in the middle of the 10-20 psi Beth recommends for running that torch.

I believe that a 15 psi/15 lpm unit that puts out a true 15 psi/15 lpm at good purity would be great for a Barracuda. Of course, a single unit that truely put out 20 psi/20 lpm at good purity would have been better - as it should have been enough to fully power the 'cuda.

And, if the M15 costs less than an M20, it would be a good choice for lots of lampworkers.

We'll see what happens...

Trust me, I'm getting the heat.

The M-20 is 20 PSI, not 20 LPM each. I think you've got your specs messed up. They never said it was a 20 LPM unit.

Maybe this is where GTT's testing came up with such bad purity... if you were trying to pull 20 LPM out of the M-20, the purity would really suck. You can crank them up and maybe get 20 LPM of flow... but it's not what the machine is supposed to do. I've got mine set at 7.5-8 and the purity is still great. I got the M-20, so I could have the push / pressure. I got two, because I looked at the specs and knew I needed two. I am very good at thinking this sort of thing out before I invest my hard earned money into equipment. The Integra 10 is more money than 2 M-20's and still doesn't do what I need. ;)

Your current machines are operating well over what they were designed to do...

Yeah, I know Justin... but the mods are done by somebody that I trust. I've had a few conversations with Jack and Paul. They are really nice guys from what I can tell. They are doing something I need done to the concentrators. While they have stumbled here and there, due to lack of experience in the glass blowing field (they have tons in the medical sector), they are facing the problems head on. They are getting feedback from our industry and really trying to be an innovative partner. They are filling the gap that companies like yours are ignoring. As a boro worker, I really appreciate it. So far, my money has been wisely spent, trying to support these guys in their efforts. I commend them for taking so much resistence from a few individuals such as yourself. Constructive critisizm is one thing... What they have put up with has been anything but constructive. They have my respect and support for being a stand up company. I am a very happy customer so far. Now, I'm going to go warm up my kiln and fire up my M-20's. A full day of unlimited oxygen and a hot flame is waiting. :D

have fun!

Thanks man. I definitely had a blast. Got 4 nice pendants done and tried something new on every one of 'em. :D Strive to be innovative folks, it's more exciting! :love:

I ran Brent's Barracuda on the two M-20's for a while down in Asheville, and I must say I was impressed. I had no problem working colors that required a lot of oxygen. It got plenty hot as well.

I don't claim to know much about how concentrators are made, so I don't know anything about reliability or things like that, but they did run every bit as good as Brent said.

I'm in the process of acquiring some different brand torches here (already own three different brands), and want to try them on some different concentrators myself. We want to be able to sell concentrators when we get our studio open for business...

Chad, I should have set it up on the Cheetah for you as well. It's equally impressive. It's a smaller torch, so there's even more power available. I have the Cheetah hooked up right now. I go back and forth, just trying new things with both torches. I haven't tried the Cuda since I got the flashback arrestor out of the line. I can't wait. Maybe later today or this Sunday. ;) I'll let you know if it made a difference on that torch as well.

You’re right, I got my specs mixed up - I thought the machines could put out 20 lpm at 20 psi. I knew that they were originally one lpm and boosted to another. I just had “20 lpm” in my mind for some reason - ever since the Gathering.

I remember reading about the machine having the lpm boosted and there being some sort of decal that the company sent out to go over the flow meter marks. You know, so that the flow meter would "accurately" show what lpm the modified units were putting out. I found the thread where that was posted and reread that part.

It appears that the M20s were originally 5 lpm machines. They were boosted to put out 10 lpm. And the decals were 10 scale decals. So, now knowing that, I can see why you would need two M20s for your Barracuda. Makes sense. Sorry for the confusion.

Side note:
It’s weird about the decal, since I thought those flow meters were put in at the (original) factory. If a machine that once put out 5 lpm could now put out 10 lpm, once it hit 5 lpm, the flow meter would still go up to the original 5 lpm mark on the machine. But with a decal, 5 lpm would show up as 10 lpm. That would mean if you are reading 8 lpm on the decal, the flow meter itself is actually reading that the machine is putting out 4 lpm. That is strange. Maybe someone can explain to me how that works.

So, anyway, it turns out that the M20 runs at 10 lpm and the M10 runs at 5 lpm. I asked Wally this morning what he ran the M20 at during the limited testing he did recently, and he said he had the ball right under the 10 lpm mark, that he knew not to push the unit over that mark. It was my understanding that if a 10 lpm concentrator is in good working order, it will put out the same purity at 10 lpm as it would at lower settings like 8 lpm - and a drop in purity, if there is one, would not be significant enough to affect the flame. If a unit runs so much worse at 10 lpm than 8 lpm, so much so that no one should run them at 10 lpm, then maybe they should be called 8 lpm units. Just a thought.

What I've mentioned are just preliminary findings. Wally is going to run some more tests in the coming weeks. I'll tell him that you said you are getting great purity at 7.5-8 lpm. I'll keep everyone posted.

Like I mentioned earlier, the Integra10 operates the Barracuda at only 60%. I would not suggest it as a stand-alone unit for your application. But, for someone making soft glass beads (and possibly small boro), it is a good, reliable choice for that torch. It was designed to put out 10 lpm at 9 psi, and that's what it does. I do not have any interest in Sequal (manufacturer) or Suncoast Beads (retailer). I do not sell these units. So, I have no reason to push this machine and prop it up to be more than it is. I am just an owner who is pleased with its performance. :)

They replace the light plastic ball with a heavier metal ball of the correct weight for the new reading. If you increase the weight of the ball, you change the amount of flow it takes to float the ball. I had the same question and asked. ;)

Aaaahhh, that makes sense.

Oh really? Hmm. Ive never seen a plstic ball in a flow meter. Every single one I have ever seen was metal.

I'll have to test this sometime this weekend.

Have fun.

First off, the Flowmeter ball in the Milennium from the factory is Metal, not plastic. I used a magnet to find this.

I did the test with different flowmeter balls. Although I didnt have a scale to weigh each flowmeter ball, you can tell there are slight differences.

Theoretically they would need a flowmeter ball that is twice as heavy to accurately read twice the LPM, right?

Anyway, with the different flowmeter balls of different weights, I noticed no difference in the meter. I checked the flowmeter on the Millenium and directly compared it to an auxillary meter. Its possible that they didnt weigh enough.

Interesting. Must be a metal BB or something in the M10/M20/M30. :shrug:

Yeah, maybe it's slightly smaller as well. I haven't gone into any testing... there are a few variations that could change how it reads. Buy one and test it out man. Then you'll know for sure. ;)