Lampwork Etc.

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-   -   Questions about torch gas and oxygen psi? (http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20638)

hotflashwanda 2006-05-02 1:44pm

I must say that this has been an interesting thread, what with the mud-slinging and mixed metaphors (urine streams coming out of hoses and such). I'm going out to have a blast melting glass with my Barracuda, which is not defective in any way nor does it sport any strange yellow fingers of flame when adjusted properly. Oh, and it will be set at 5 psi propane and 18 psi oxygen, cuz then it just rocks those boro colors! :razz:
Anita
www.fireflybeads.com

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-02 2:10pm

Henry didn't tell me a thing. I am explaining it as I understand it. It just makes sense. Don't think that I can't think for myself... I just know Henry had explained it to somebody the same way. ;) I'm sorry you aren't getting it. Don't "warn" Henry about anything because of something I said.

jokersdesign 2006-05-02 2:25pm

http://users.mn.astound.net/jokersdesign/psi.jpg

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-02 2:42pm

Neat picture bro... very scientific. :D Now it makes perfect sense... ;) :lol:

kbinkster 2006-05-02 2:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokersdesign
Hey Kim,

I'm seaching google right now, but do you happen to have a picture of the "cheater torch"?

I'm looking at some of Al Janelle is his work is amazing.

So if I wanted GTT could make a Cheater torch for me? It's just not something they are going to ever go into production with.

It would be a custom job, Robert. So, it would take longer than "two weeks."

jokersdesign 2006-05-02 2:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Neat picture bro... very scientific. :D Now it makes perfect sense... ;)

LOL

I'm not posting it at you or trying to get you to understand.

If I understand it right I think you both are right but are making different points.

Higher psi makes the torch valves more touchy.

and

Higher psi make the makes a hard driving flame at the same volume instead of a soft flame.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-02 3:15pm

You've got it man... that pretty much sums it up in a very basic nutshell. I don't disagree with any of that. :D Basically, use what ever torch setting makes you happy. If it's working, it doesn't need fixing. ;)

kbinkster 2006-05-02 3:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jokersdesign
LOL

I'm not posting it at you or trying to get you to understand.

If I understand it right I think you both are right but are making different points.

Higher psi makes the torch valves more touchy.

and

Higher psi make the makes a hard driving flame at the same volume instead of a soft flame.

If your needle valve is all the way open, yes.

If you are using a gate valve, a ball valve, or even a needle valve that is not precise enough, you will have problems controlling the flow. But, yes, higher pressures make the valves touchier.

The needle valve controls the pressure and the flow. They control what is getting to that torch. So, the more you open your needle valve, the higher pressure you will have going through the torch.

You can get a soft flame even when using a higher pressure setting on the regulator because the needle valves control the pressure and the volume of gas going into that torch.

kbinkster 2006-05-02 4:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
You've got it man... that pretty much sums it up in a very basic nutshell. I don't disagree with any of that. :D Basically, use what ever torch setting makes you happy. If it's working, it doesn't need fixing. ;)

People definitely have their preferences when it comes to how responsive their valve control is. But when deciding what pressures to set the regulators to, they should keep in mind the following (from the Arrow Springs web site - emphasis mine):

Quote:

The best pressure to use for oxygen is between 20 and 25 pounds. Use 10 to 15 pounds for the propane.

Using these pressure settings will make the pressure regulators perform better and have a longer life. Some propane pressure regulators have a red danger zone on the delivery pressure gauge. This only applies when the pressure regulator is used with acetylene. Disregard it when using propane. Many torches give suggested pressure settings that are lower than what is stated here. These pressures are actually what the torch works best at, at a minimum. Supplying higher pressure does not affect the torch or increase gas consumption. The actual pressure that the torch will operate on is what you manually set using the torch's valves.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-02 4:45pm

This is so friggin hilarious. I've been laughing all day. I really have. When I had my Mirage, I was told by several people... not sure who, my memory fails me... but I was told to turn down my pressure at the tank reg, because I was having a problem working the soft glass with such a fast driving flame. No matter how good you say your valves are, they can't produce a large soft flame unless you turn down line pressure. For any of you that beleive Kimberly, get on a bigger torch on tanked oxy and just try it. You may get a small soft flame like the one she showed, but when you turn the valves open further to get a larger flame, it's rushing at a high rate... this can only be corrected by adjusting line pressure. Period. No magical valve can do that job. GTT makes a heck of a torch, but it just can't do what she claims... Anybody that can show me a torch that can some how produce a flame in the middle to upper range of that torch in size, in both soft and driving depending only on valve settings, can have a full days worth of my work. Which, if I'm arguing a point with Kimberly that day, won't be much. :lol:

jokersdesign 2006-05-02 7:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbinkster
It would be a custom job, Robert. So, it would take longer than "two weeks."


Sweet, Yeah I figured it would be custom and take more then 2 weeks. Do you know how they would do that? Like would they modify an existing GTT torch or would they make a one port one barrel torch body and stand?

Do have any pictures of a cheater torch?

kbinkster 2006-05-02 8:21pm

They have made both hand torch versions and bench burner versions. I do not have any pictures.

The body of the torch is 1/4" outside diameter. The flame range goes from the size of a bee stinger (the little sharp tip on the end) to the size of a pencil (1/4"). There is no other torch that can get as small as that one does. You have got to see it to believe it.

You can sneak in between flower stamens on paperweight setups. You can reattach legs on ants. It is like a little laser. You can hit a stamen to the left or right of the stamen that you are working on and it won't make it collapse and drop over instantly. You will just see a little orange glow. But, if you leave it there long enough, then it will fall over. Al Janelle used his to go into the eye sockets of his animal head beads and work the detail.

The neat thing about it is that it is so stable, it won't shut off if a breeze hits it. And it doesn't blow itself out, either, like a premix does (e.g., the Smith Little Torch).

It will work finicky glass (Gaffer, Kugler, leaded glass, etc.) without reduction. It will melt a 1/4" rod of boro. It's good for working set-ups and super-fine detail. There are people out there who have them, but I am not at liberty to reveal their identities or the type of work that they are doing with them.

I won't discuss the pressures it can run on. I'll just say that it works and leave it at that.





Oh, O.K., I can't hold out. That torch can run on very low pressures, of course. But, I know someone who runs his on 40 psi oxygen and 15 psi propane (because it is in-line with his other torches). And, he can get any flame he wants out of it... by using the needle valves.

Well, I'm off to go take some pictures of a bench burner on a bet.

kbinkster 2006-05-02 11:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
This is so friggin hilarious. I've been laughing all day. I really have. When I had my Mirage, I was told by several people... not sure who, my memory fails me... but I was told to turn down my pressure at the tank reg, because I was having a problem working the soft glass with such a fast driving flame.

This puzzles me. I don't know why you would have such a hard time. Maybe the best thing would have been to have someone who routinely runs a soft flame on a GTT to show you how they do it without changing the regulator pressures.

When you turned down your regulator settings, how low did you have to set them to get a soft flame?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
No matter how good you say your valves are, they can't produce a large soft flame unless you turn down line pressure. For any of you that beleive Kimberly, get on a bigger torch on tanked oxy and just try it. You may get a small soft flame like the one she showed, but when you turn the valves open further to get a larger flame, it's rushing at a high rate... this can only be corrected by adjusting line pressure. Period. No magical valve can do that job. GTT makes a heck of a torch, but it just can't do what she claims...

Here are some pictures of a large soft flame from the centerfire of my Phantom (the same as a Lynx). Some of them are taken with a flash and some are not. I was trying to get the best picture of the flame. Sometimes, the flash would make parts of the flame invisible.



The flame is roughly 1" across and 12" long. The torch is angled, so it looks shorter. It is a large soft flame made by using only the red and green valves - basically mimicking a Bobcat. This is a "standard" flame, not a triple mix flame. The regulators were set at 50 psi oxygen and 20 psi propane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Anybody that can show me a torch that can some how produce a flame in the middle to upper range of that torch in size, in both soft and driving depending only on valve settings, can have a full days worth of my work. Which, if I'm arguing a point with Kimberly that day, won't be much. :lol:

I have already shown the photographs of the large soft flame. Now, here are some pictures of a driving flame.



The first two pictures are a hard driving flame made with the red, blue, and green valves (triple mix). The third picture is ahard driving flame made with just the red and green valves (standard -again, mimicking the Bobcat). The flame measures in at a length of about 22" for both the triple mix version and the standard version. The torch is angled, as I mentioned earlier, so it looks shorter. The width was different, though as the inner oxygen sharpens the flame. The width for the triple mix version was about 1/2" and the width of the standard version was just a little bit wider. I made the adjustments from the soft flame to the hard driving flame using only the needle valves. The regulators were still set at 50 psi oxygen and 20 psi propane.

Here are some special flames using all three valves on the centerfire of my Phantom.



The laser flame is about 1/4" wide and about as long as the hard driving flame. It was made using the red and blue valves only. The pinpoint flame was very hard to photograph. The thinnest part would not show up no matter what kind of lighting I used. It starts off about 1/4" across then quickly tapers to literally the width of a needle. Again, the regulator pressure is set at 50 psi oxygen and 20 psi propane.


So, there you have it. I have shown that you can get a soft flame and a hard driving flame without changing the regulator settings. I also showed a teeny tiny needle flame that using Brent's logic, should have been blown out by all that high pressure gas ripping through the torch at high pressure. In a previous post, I showed a small soft flame made on a Lynx hand torch - which is the same thing as the centerfire of my Phantom. I used very high pressures just to demonstrate my point that the needle valves control the flame, regardless of regulator settings. The regulator pressures limit the high end of what you can get out of the torch and affect the responsiveness of the needle valves. The photographs that I have posted should speak for themselves and put an end to this nonsense. My point has been proven.:wave:

Oh, I almost forgot... There was no "whoosh" sound at any time I was running the torch. There was definitely some hissing while I was running the hard driving flame, but no whooshing.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-03 4:41am

Well, I have to go out of town... so, I have to stop this for real. Too bad, because I could have taken some of my own pictures. :lol:

Kim, you are always on here talking about running with the blue knob closed... is this just for demo purposes or can you run that way for working long periods? I was always told to have the blue knob at least cracked.

I was also told only to run the blue and red combo for short periods... is this something you can run longer term? I always heard it could damage the torch.

These are pretty well known rumors. I have heard them all over the place. It may serve GTT well to have this info on their website... also, you may want to add that line pressure really doesn't matter. Set your GTT to 50 and 100 and rock and roll. This would have saved the discussion at AGI about what line pressures are right for a Delta. Just ask them to put on the GTT site, that it doesn't flippin matter and all adjustments can be made at the torch. It would really save some time for people. Be the first torch company that does this. Some sort of info or specs listed would be awesome on the GTT site. Some tips and tricks on getting the whole range of flames possible that are safe to run would be really really helpful to a lot of people. Nobody can argue that the GTT isn't an amazingly versatile torch. It really really is. I loved my Mirage and I use my Cheetah occasionally now. Update the GTT site with this info, if it's solid like you say it is. ;)

HardwoodTrailGlass 2006-05-03 4:56am

Not to butt in or anything, :-s but I do want to say:
'Thank you' for taking the time to post all those pictures and the explanations. =D> Nice job.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-03 5:03am

Yeah, thanks for taking the time Kimberly. Really. :D

pam 2006-05-03 6:23am

Haven't wanted to butt into this love fest, but, Robert, I can only say what I do and have done for a good many years. I work primarily soft glass, but do frequently work boro, solid sculpture as well as perfume bottles. Whenever I have gotten a new torch, I have always set my pressures to the max setting recommended. My reasoning behind this is that I will have the upper end of what the torch can do if I need it, but I can dial it down to whatever I am working on. I have never changed my pressure settings for my own work, although I do change the settings when I have 8 to 10 torches running off one tank. This doesn't mean I am right or wrong, just the way I have worked for over 15 years.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-03 7:44am

Come on now Pam... we all know you like to argue as much as Kim and I do... you act like you don't... but you do. I get under your skin all the time. I prolly give you the full body quivers when I tell people how much I like my Chili Pepper. :lol: ;) It's all good. People will set their torch however they want to. Crank that pressure up GTT people it doesn't matter. :lol:

barb 2006-05-03 8:24am

Brent,

You are right - Pam loves intelligent debates which is why engaging her is not always an intelligent decision. However, the statement "that people will set their torches at whatever they want" is not the point. A specific technical question was asked for a reason and should be answered techinically.

I think Willie has the background and knowledge to provide accurate information when it is asked and the fact that Kimberly is the messenger doesn't lessen that information. Anyone who has met Willie or talked to him for any length of time will tell you that he is extremely intelligent and very knowledgeable about all aspects of the glass business. Kimberly has actually been an excellent liaison between the forums and GTT.

Barb

kbinkster 2006-05-03 8:32am

My last post proved my point, so I really don't have anything new to add right now. However, since you are asking some questions...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Well, I have to go out of town... so, I have to stop this for real. Too bad, because I could have taken some of my own pictures. :lol:

What would your pictures show? Why wouldn't they show something similar? I ran the soft large flame and the hard driving flame on the red and green valves only. The blue valve is the difference between the Bobcat and the Lynx, the difference between standard mix and triple mix. So, the flames I dialed in without the blue valve could just as easily be dialed in a a Bobcat, a standard torch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Kim, you are always on here talking about running with the blue knob closed... is this just for demo purposes or can you run that way for working long periods? I was always told to have the blue knob at least cracked.

When you are running at the upper ends, you can run red and green only without cracking open the blue valve.

When you are running a medium flame for a short time, like five minutes, you can run without the blue valve.

When you are running low or middle range, you should crack open the blue valve. This will not affect the flame much, just make it a little bit narrower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
I was also told only to run the blue and red combo for short periods... is this something you can run longer term? I always heard it could damage the torch.

On the Lynx (and centerfires for Phantom and larger), you can run a flame made on the red and blue valves indefinitely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
These are pretty well known rumors. I have heard them all over the place. It may serve GTT well to have this info on their website... also, you may want to add that line pressure really doesn't matter. Set your GTT to 50 and 100 and rock and roll. This would have saved the discussion at AGI about what line pressures are right for a Delta. Just ask them to put on the GTT site, that it doesn't flippin matter and all adjustments can be made at the torch. It would really save some time for people. Be the first torch company that does this.

You could run 100 and 100 if you wanted to. The needle valves control what gets to the torch. The reason that pressure recommendations are given is that those are the pressures where the manufacturer believes the torch performs at its best. Remember, the pressure settings determine the upper end of what you can get out of your torch and how responsive the valves are. Pressue settings also affect the regulators, as well (like stated by Arrow Springs). So, pressure settings do matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
Some sort of info or specs listed would be awesome on the GTT site. Some tips and tricks on getting the whole range of flames possible that are safe to run would be really really helpful to a lot of people. Nobody can argue that the GTT isn't an amazingly versatile torch. It really really is. I loved my Mirage and I use my Cheetah occasionally now. Update the GTT site with this info, if it's solid like you say it is. ;)

Well, watch the video that comes with the bigger torches and read the instructions that came with each torch. That would have saved you a lot of time. GTT was the first to ever send highly detailed instructions with their torches. GTT was the first to ever send a video along, as well. So, just because something is not posted on a website doesn't mean that it isn't available or hasn't been given out.

kbinkster 2006-05-03 8:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HardwoodTrailGlass
Not to butt in or anything, :-s but I do want to say:
'Thank you' for taking the time to post all those pictures and the explanations. =D> Nice job.

You're welcome and thank you!

kbinkster 2006-05-03 8:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by pam
Haven't wanted to butt into this love fest, but, Robert, I can only say what I do and have done for a good many years. I work primarily soft glass, but do frequently work boro, solid sculpture as well as perfume bottles. Whenever I have gotten a new torch, I have always set my pressures to the max setting recommended. My reasoning behind this is that I will have the upper end of what the torch can do if I need it, but I can dial it down to whatever I am working on. I have never changed my pressure settings for my own work, although I do change the settings when I have 8 to 10 torches running off one tank. This doesn't mean I am right or wrong, just the way I have worked for over 15 years.

Pam, I think your reasoning is very sound. I also believe that your experience in this field is very valuable.

kbinkster 2006-05-03 8:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by barb
Brent,

You are right - Pam loves intelligent debates which is why engaging her is not always an intelligent decision. However, the statement "that people will set their torches at whatever they want" is not the point. A specific technical question was asked for a reason and should be answered techinically.

I think Willie has the background and knowledge to provide accurate information when it is asked and the fact that Kimberly is the messenger doesn't lessen that information. Anyone who has met Willie or talked to him for any length of time will tell you that he is extremely intelligent and very knowledgeable about all aspects of the glass business. Kimberly has actually been an excellent liaison between the forums and GTT.

Barb

Thank you, Barb!

Willy is extremely intelligent. He is also very patient. This makes him an excellent teacher. I have learned so much over the last couple of years by just asking him questions and listening to his answers.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-03 3:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by barb
Brent,

You are right - Pam loves intelligent debates which is why engaging her is not always an intelligent decision. However, the statement "that people will set their torches at whatever they want" is not the point. A specific technical question was asked for a reason and should be answered techinically.

I think Willie has the background and knowledge to provide accurate information when it is asked and the fact that Kimberly is the messenger doesn't lessen that information. Anyone who has met Willie or talked to him for any length of time will tell you that he is extremely intelligent and very knowledgeable about all aspects of the glass business. Kimberly has actually been an excellent liaison between the forums and GTT.

Barb


I agree Miss Barb. Well, except for the last part. I'll engage the Binkster every chance I get and most of the time that means engaging Pam. :lol: I love giving Kimberly a hard time. I told her I would and will continue every chance I get. ;)

pam 2006-05-03 4:40pm

You know, Brent, you have just confirmed in writing what I have thought for a long time. You will argue with Kimberly any time over anything she says. It doesn't matter whether she is right, you will take the opposite point of view.

Take this thread, for instance:

Robert asked, "So my question is if I have my Barracuda torch setup to one of the following settings below, what would the difference or advantage between the settings be?"

I answered Robert, "The only difference in 3/10 vs. 5/15 would be the ultimate output of the torch, were you to use it full open. Since most of us do not normally operate our torches full open, I doubt you would see much difference.


Kimberly answered, "Pam is right because it is the needle valves that control the flow. A higher pressure will make your valve control more touchy. And a difference of just a couple of pounds would be hardly noticeable."

Then there were pages of you arguing with Kimberly and she was kind enough to take time from her busy life as a mother with a young child to take pictures to illustrate what she stated.

Robert comes back and says, "Higher psi makes the torch valves more touchy.
and Higher psi make the makes a hard driving flame at the same volume instead of a soft flame."

And you said, "You've got it man... that pretty much sums it up in a very basic nutshell."

Which is where we started. While most of us learned a lot in this thread, thanks to Kimberly, you were rude, insulting and condescending when it was totally unnecessary, and then you state you will act this way every chance you get. If your intent is to get her to leave LE, then I would say you are doing a pretty good job of it, except for one thing - Kimberly is made of stronger stuff. And yes, I will intercede on Kimberly's behalf because I find her to be an extremely intelligent person who adds a lot to this forum and knows a lot about the technical aspects of our art form and I respect and appreciate her input.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-03 6:12pm

Well Pam, I made a statement a while back voicing my opinion. She was rude, unprofesional and told untruths about me... but, she's your buddy, so she can do no wrong. I didn't argue this point because I just wanted to go against her... I feel her statement isn't entirely true and still do. You can set your torch however you want. If you don't like my point of view, dismiss it. :D I will challenge her any time I feel she doesn't have it right... I won't when I do think she has it right. ;)

MikeAurelius 2006-05-04 6:11am

Oh good lord. Not again.

Rude, condescending, arrogant, foolish. That sums it up pretty well for me as well, Pam.

For someone who is a moderator, and supposed to be "above such things", I wondered what the purpose of such continual, bordering on personal, attacks, were. Now, it's there for all to see. It's all about ego. And an overinflated one at that.

I suppose this post will be deleted like my previous ones have been any time I've tried to stop this endless bickering between these two people, but the fact remains that one person has shown themselves to be honest and untiring in their goal to get good information out there for everyone to use and the other person is taking simple delight in trying to be an ass.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-04 11:05am

:lol: Yeah Mike... as a supply business owner AND a forum owner are you above it? Nope, you and Dale go at it just as bad, if not worse. :lol: It's all good if you think I'm being mean to her and I shouldn't be. I certainly didn't start out being mean to her. She kicked me in the nuts first a short time ago... I've always said, you get what you give with me. Never sugar coated it one bit. I'm not going to let anybody be a jerk to me. I am so nice to the people I like. I'll make no bones about who I think are jerks... there are a few of you, but thank god there aren't many in the glass blowing industry. Most people are nice and unpolitical when it comes to stuff. Don't be mad because I have the courage to call it like I see it and not slink off like the bullies want. I'm just fighting back and having a little fun, while we discuss issues! :love:

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-04 11:19am

For those of you scratching their head trying to figure out what I'm talking about that happened between Kimberly, Pam and I... it has been deleted. It got that bad. We try to keep things around, but that thread certainly needed to be cleaned up. :lol: Stinky stinky. So, stop looking for it and scratching your heads. :D See you all soon. I am finally getting out of here. This is why I plan on leaving way early... it makes me on time. :D Oh, and I got the PT Cruiser today. Woohoo! :D

MikeAurelius 2006-05-04 11:27am

Quote:

Nope, you and Dale go at it just as bad, if not worse.
Well, I take exception to this. Yes, Dale and I have our disagreements, but we have never taken it to the level IN PUBLIC that you have done with (to) Kimberly.

Dale and I have come to a gentlemans agreement about such things, and if you would care to notice, there has not been an obnoxious dispute between us in nearly a year. Maybe its time for you to do the same. But, as always, you live in the past, not the present, which is why you keep dredging up all the old sh*t everytime someone dares call you on YOUR behavior.

I'm not perfect, no one is, but I've changed the way I behave on-line, maybe you should consider doing the same.

kbinkster 2006-05-04 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
For those of you scratching their head trying to figure out what I'm talking about that happened between Kimberly, Pam and I... it has been deleted. It got that bad. We try to keep things around, but that thread certainly needed to be cleaned up. :lol: Stinky stinky. So, stop looking for it and scratching your heads. :D See you all soon. I am finally getting out of here. This is why I plan on leaving way early... it makes me on time. :D Oh, and I got the PT Cruiser today. Woohoo! :D

Oh, Brent, quit playing the victim. You know what instigated my comments towards you on that thread. I called you on something and you didn't like it. And, your behavior in it was remarkably similar to what you have displayed here.

I have a copy of it (what was posted up until about two hours before Brent "cleaned it up," anyway). If anyone one is that interested and would like to see how things developed and why, just ask and I'll email it to you.

At any rate, I have remained quite civil towards you since then. I have not gone out of my way to argue with you unnecessarily. I certainly have not taken up one side of an argument simply because you are on the other side.

I don't have to call you names or accuse you of anything. Your public displays (and not just your posts concerning me) speak volumes as to what kind of person you really are. And I'm sure that's fine with you. You are obviously very comfortable being "you."





I sure would hate for this thread to go the way I suspected it would as soon as you started up with the insults. There is a lot of valuable information in this thread. I would hate to see it disappear because you can't let go of your ego.

Mr. Smiley 2006-05-04 12:11pm

Cleaning it up was my punishment for getting into it with you. :lol: I had to do all the editing and make the thread make sense again. All I said is that I classify GTT's as a boro torch. Period. Just an opinion. You didn't like that. I never said they won't work for soft glass. I never said people shouldn't use them for soft glass. I just said they are a boro torch in my mind. You didn't like that. Like my mind matters so very much, you have to attack and discredit me? I am just a glass blower. Nothing more. I love what I do and my experience has taught me things that I base my opinions on. I am very comfortable being me... jump my shit for having an opinion and you'll get yours jumped right back. I've always made that perfectly clear. You could have simply disagreed politely and we would not be in this mess. Really. People disagree with me all the time. It's how they do it that sets the tone for our encounter. If you have it saved, go back and read who got nasty first. ;) Maybe you'll see why I got offended. :love:

Have a nice 11 days folks. I'm outta here. I'll see some of you in NC. :D

kbinkster 2006-05-04 1:41pm

Brent, you can re-read the thread and read my explanation of why I took exception to your post. Your post was not a simple opinion and your comments were further reaching than a simple “GTTs are a boro torch, in my opinion.”

If you would like to discuss this further, I suggest that we take it to the woodshed and spare this thread.

“Why not take it up privately?” some may ask. I have found that Brent is much more civil towards me in public than he is in private. If you think he is rude to me in this thread…

Dale M. 2006-06-01 8:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
:lol: Yeah Mike... as a supply business owner AND a forum owner are you above it? Nope, you and Dale go at it just as bad, if not worse.

Excuse me....

Mike and I have a understanding.... There has not been any confrontation between Mike and myself for quite a while....

You on other hand seem to blow into a thread, raise hell for a few days, and then depart, all this for no real reason... You have done it in some Safety threads, and given bad information and impressions and left confusion and disgust behind, now you are causing a problem here, and you have the nerve to accuse Mike and myself of being bad boys...

I liked you better before your ego and arrogance stepped in... Even if you are ineffectual as a moderator....

Shame on you Brent...

Dale

Mr. Smiley 2006-06-01 8:58am

I love you Dale, wanna snoodle?

kbinkster 2006-06-01 9:11am

You know, that isn't even funny. I know you like to snap back with your "humor" when you get called on things, but really, that wasn't funny. It was tasteless, at best.

Mr. Smiley 2006-06-01 9:13am

Whatever. Digging up a terd and sticking your finger in it, just to proclaim how bad it stinks is silly. I met his rediculous post with another. Don't like it, start your own forum and you can control what is said there... oh wait, Dale already did that.

MikeAurelius 2006-06-01 9:30am

1 Attachment(s)
hmmmmmmmm...that reminds me: Don't feed the troll.

Justin L 2006-06-17 9:59pm

:lol: that picture is great!


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