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  #31  
Old 2012-11-28, 9:14pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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I realise that oxy tanks have been the shape they are for a long time, the two main reasons I can see for this shape ( and there may be more) is strength and ease of manufacture, (the cylinder is still not as strong as a sphere) the shape of the bottles gives them a very high centre of gravity and this makes them difficult to handle, you only need to get them a few degrees off vertical and they will topple, most men can of course handle this but most women can not, imagine a cylinder half the height and twice the width, the centre of gravity is now so low in the cylinder that it becomes difficult to tip it over making it much safer to handle, thus making it much safer for home use and especially where women are concerned, I think your statement "if handled right" is very interesting and in itself suggests potential problems. Perhaps a spherical bottle would raise the cost of manufacturing but a short wide bottle would not, I would imagine the cost and strength would be similar but the safety for handlers would be very much improved. I teach many workshops in other peoples studios and with a class of perhaps 12, all being women, I am the only person able to handle the standard G size bottle safely and I'm in my 70s, the women in the workshops are terrified of the big tall bottles because they do not have the strength to hold them if they tip.
cheers, Bernard
no. You misunderstood my statement. Handled correctly refers to the fact that they are just about indestructable assuming that the safety cap is on if the bottle is handled or moved. That is fact. they are the shape they currently are for one reason and that reason is to maximize storage density. If you learn to roll the bottle correctly you only have to lift a fraction of their weight. No reason to fix what isnt broken.
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  #32  
Old 2012-11-28, 11:57pm
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exactly, the bottles are indestructible, no argument there, but you need to go and talk to the women in their studios and see how they get on with handling them, it's not the bottle I'm worried about it's the people, not all of us are 6foot 2 and built of muscle, we are talking about two different things here, you about how strong the bottle is and I about how dangerous they are to people and a shorter wider bottle can hold exactly the same amount of gas as the tall thin bottle it's all in the proportions, most of the problem is that that's how they were made last century so that is how they make them today, everything can be improved.
B
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  #33  
Old 2012-11-29, 1:33pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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exactly, the bottles are indestructible, no argument there, but you need to go and talk to the women in their studios and see how they get on with handling them, it's not the bottle I'm worried about it's the people, not all of us are 6foot 2 and built of muscle, we are talking about two different things here, you about how strong the bottle is and I about how dangerous they are to people and a shorter wider bottle can hold exactly the same amount of gas as the tall thin bottle it's all in the proportions, most of the problem is that that's how they were made last century so that is how they make them today, everything can be improved.
B
once again your not listening...I never lift a fraction of that weight when i bring them to fill. Have your gas supplier teach you how to handle the bottles. falacies and misinformation grow quickly here.
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  #34  
Old 2012-11-29, 2:06pm
dusty dusty is offline
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I'm not that strong, but can move a tank one-handed. You just tilt it enough to get one side off the ground, then kick that side as you're walking to roll it. It doesn't require much strength.

A shorter, wider bottle can hold just as much, but a 4ft x 4ft area filled with them won't unless you start stacking them.
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  #35  
Old 2012-11-29, 2:32pm
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menty666 menty666 is offline
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Oxygen tanks are far safer than most people think. The risk does mostly come from their weight, but again, you don't pick them up. On smooth ground you can do the tilt and roll, and for rougher ground strap it to a hand truck like I do.

Mythbusters did an episode where they tested to see if an oxygen cylinder could go through a cinder block wall, and it did. But they had to go to some pretty extraordinary measures to get the valve to break off in some a way that it did it.

If they're too heavy overall, get smaller tanks; you don't *need* to get the largest size.

And saying women can't handle them is an insult to women. Frankly, I was shocked to see that.

As for a round sphere, these are industrial tanks, they're not *designed* with the home user in mind. Making them round would massively increase the space needed to store them and drive up prices.
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  #36  
Old 2012-11-29, 8:39pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Oxygen tanks are far safer than most people think. The risk does mostly come from their weight, but again, you don't pick them up. On smooth ground you can do the tilt and roll, and for rougher ground strap it to a hand truck like I do.

Mythbusters did an episode where they tested to see if an oxygen cylinder could go through a cinder block wall, and it did. But they had to go to some pretty extraordinary measures to get the valve to break off in some a way that it did it.

If they're too heavy overall, get smaller tanks; you don't *need* to get the largest size.

And saying women can't handle them is an insult to women. Frankly, I was shocked to see that.

As for a round sphere, these are industrial tanks, they're not *designed* with the home user in mind. Making them round would massively increase the space needed to store them and drive up prices.
I know petite women who transport Ts....It is an insult to women.
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  #37  
Old 2012-11-29, 8:47pm
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Originally Posted by menty666 View Post
Oxygen tanks are far safer than most people think. The risk does mostly come from their weight, but again, you don't pick them up. On smooth ground you can do the tilt and roll, and for rougher ground strap it to a hand truck like I do.

Mythbusters did an episode where they tested to see if an oxygen cylinder could go through a cinder block wall, and it did. But they had to go to some pretty extraordinary measures to get the valve to break off in some a way that it did it.

If they're too heavy overall, get smaller tanks; you don't *need* to get the largest size.

And saying women can't handle them is an insult to women. Frankly, I was shocked to see that.

As for a round sphere, these are industrial tanks, they're not *designed* with the home user in mind. Making them round would massively increase the space needed to store them and drive up prices.
After watching the Mythbusters all these years, I am mostly just afraid of my water heater. Oh and I will always jump in a swimming pool if someone is shooting at me.
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  #38  
Old 2012-11-29, 9:10pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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After watching the Mythbusters all these years, I am mostly just afraid of my water heater. Oh and I will always jump in a swimming pool if someone is shooting at me.
the water heater episode is one of my favorites
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  #39  
Old 2012-11-29, 10:07pm
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menty666 menty666 is offline
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After watching the Mythbusters all these years, I am mostly just afraid of my water heater. Oh and I will always jump in a swimming pool if someone is shooting at me.
I get that LOL Oddly, I'm working on having one installed, but I'm more worried about it blowing out the bottom and flooding
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  #40  
Old 2012-12-03, 3:26pm
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I actually prefer using a high-quality concentrator for a smaller torch/centerfire of large torch because:

I hate running out of oxygen while in the middle of working on a piece. It doesn't matter if I have six other full tanks waiting to swap out, I don't want to stop and risk losing the piece because the oxygen ran out.

Delivery trucks burn a lot of fossil fuel getting those tanks to me.

Tanks are a pain to handle and when my studio was in a (albeit walk-out) basement, it was a real hassle.



There is a difference in purity between tanked oxygen and concentrator oxygen, but the higher quality the concentrator is, the smaller the difference is. Heat-wise and flame-quality-wise, there is not much difference between a Regalia and tanked oxygen when used with many of the bead torches out there. I can work the same glass with a Regalia that I can with tanked oxygen on the single-stage torches and centerfires that I have used. When you start using torches that require a higher delivery pressure, the difference between tanked and concentrator is more apparent. You can work around that by adding additional equipment to boost the pressure output to the torch. If you have a torch that requires more flow, you can add another concentrator to the set-up.

Now, if the choice were between tanked oxygen and a junky concentrator, I would put up with the hassle and go with tanked.
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  #41  
Old 2012-12-03, 11:50pm
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Well I do seem to have stirred a few people up, firstly, I am not out to insult women, the most common tank used here in Australia is the G the closest tank to this in the US is the K and at almost 5 foot tall and weighing in at 154 LBS with a base of only 9 inches, I will leave you to do the maths and see just where the centre of gravity is. I grew up on a farm and have handled these size bottles since I was about 12 years old, I am now 71 and have no trouble rolling one across a concrete floor, getting them out of the back of a vehicle however is another matter. One of the studios I teach at has a steep driveway, the delivery men refused to bring the tanks down the driveway as they said it was too dangerous , this problem has been overcome now and the bottles are stored in an enclosure at the top of the driveway and the oxy piped 30 meters to the studio but it illustrates how awkward the bottles are even for "experts" I don't know many women in Australia who will confidently handle the G (k) size tanks and not many men unless they have a trade background are confident in handling them, my suggestion was about making it safer and easier for women to handle the tanks and those men who find it difficult. Personally I use concentrators, bottled oxy is way too expensive in my area, my studio is on a rural property, and even though I can back my truck up to within 20 meters of the studio the ground is rough rocky limestone, how many of you ladies would be happy to handle bottles almost 5 foot tall and weighing 154 lbs over that?
I just feel that in this day and age we could do it better and make things easier for everyone. And that's all I have to say on the matter.
Bernard
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  #42  
Old 2012-12-10, 12:17pm
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I see no reason a woman can't maneuver a 'K' tank if trained to do it properly. Or anyone else for that matter.
There is no reason to run out of O2 on tanks if you use a manifold with multiple tanks.
I use a block and tackle and sling to lift my tanks into the back of my pickup...no problem.
A hand truck with proper safety chains and secureing fixtures is a very good way to move tanks.
Use the largest tanks you can handle and store to minimize oxy cost.
I use oxycons on my center flame and tanked on my outer and it works well for me. I can also shift the inner to tanks by moving 2 ball valve levers so that is a snap.
I was 70 on Saturday so age is not a factor.
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Last edited by cheng076; 2012-12-10 at 12:19pm.
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  #43  
Old 2012-12-15, 6:07am
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Anne Londez Anne Londez is offline
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Tanks also use electricty to fill them up.
I can't say really, I'm so used to working with concentrators now. I would just need one more to cover all situations !

ETA I agree with Kimberly on fossil fuels and all that though. And even though I am a 5'3" woman, I can perfectly well manoeuver the larger tanks, thanks very much.
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  #44  
Old 2012-12-29, 5:22pm
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isatrujillo isatrujillo is offline
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My first post. (I dont speak english so please excuse my mistakes)
I'm so happy reading this post, tanked is what I have beacause my main work is jewelry and where I live tanks and oxigen are cheap, also they deliver them to my home!
I was thinking on buying a concentrator for my new bobcat (coming soon), but now I'll wait and see!
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and knwoledge!!! great forum!!!
Isa
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