Torches on Oxygen Concentrators Thread

[kbinkster]

I have been videoing flames of torches running on concentrators. I have posted links to the videos I have made so far in various discussions, but I thought it would be a good idea to have a single thread where I could post them, as well. You could check out my YouTube channel, too, if you would like. Look under PyronamixK.

This is an ongoing project. If you don't see what you're looking for, check back again later, I might have something up.

Please keep in mind that I am doing this with my own resources - the concentrators and torches I have in my own collection and what my friends may have loaned to me. I will be doing melt tests on video as time and glass permit. Right now, these videos are for showing the flames achievable by these torches on these concentrators. Also, I am not a professional videographer. I am learning as I go. So, please forgive the camerawork.






Here are the videos I already have uploaded onto YouTube and their descriptions:

Scorpion on Regalia
Scorpion on Regalia - mobile video version

This video shows the GTT Scorpion being run on a 10 LPM Regalia oxygen concentrator. In this video, Willy Horn (President/CEO of GTT) and his wife Kimberly (owner Pyronamix) measure the output of a pre-production GTT Scorpion while running on a 10 LPM, 8 psi Regalia with the propane set to 10 psi. This was recorded in Colorado at an altitude above 6,000 ft. Concentrators perform better at lower altitudes.


Scorpion on Regalia and Integra 10
Scorpion on Regalia and Integra 10 - mobile video version
This video shows the GTT Scorpion being run on the 10 LPM Regalia and the 10 LPM Integra 10 oxygen concentrators . In this video, Willy Horn (President/CEO of GTT) and his wife Kimberly (owner Pyronamix) measure the output of a pre-production GTT Scorpion while running on two 10 LPM, 8 psi concentrators with the propane set to 10 psi. This was recorded in Colorado at an altitude above 6,000 ft. Concentrators perform better at lower altitudes.


More videos are in the works. The filming is completed on:

Nortel Minor on Regalia
Mini CC on Regalia
Knight Bullet on Regalia
Bethlehem Barracuda on Regalia
and another video of the Scorpion on Regalia

I took still shots of the candles and will post those, as well.

[kbinkster]

Here's the last one made with my Sony Cybershot:

Scorpion on 8 LPM, 13 psi
This video shows the GTT Scorpion being run on an M-20 oxygen concentrator set to 8 LPM. In this video, Willy Horn (President/CEO of GTT) and his wife Kimberly (owner Pyronamix) measure the output of a pre-production GTT Scorpion while running on an 8 LPM, 13 psi oxycon with the propane set to 10 psi. This was recorded in Colorado at an altitude above 6,000 ft. Concentrators perform better at lower altitudes.
Scorpion on 8 LPM, 13 psi

For this video we are using an oxygen concentrator that has been measured to have a static pressure of 13 psi. This is within the range of the static pressure output of the M-15 and EX-15 oxygen concentrators we have tested in the field with our oxygen analyzer. We set the flow to 8 LPM, which is the maximum recommended flow output of those machines (M-15/EX-15). We believe this to be a close approximation of an actual M-15 or EX-15. Even if our machine were to have a full 15 psi static pressure, we believe that the extra 2 psi would not make a noticeable difference in torch performance, particularly because at 13 psi, the full 8 LPM is still being delivered to the torch.


It's a short video, mostly because my camera battery went out. I am planning to redo it with my new camcorder in order to get better flame detail. The videos that are in production right now are much better in terms of image quality - particularly image detail.

[kbinkster]

I am so excited to show what the Minor can do on the Regalia. My Mega Minor is on loan to someone, right now. As soon as I get it back, I will take a video of it.

So many of you have questions about what a neutral flame looks like. These new videos will show that clearly.

[Diane (clarus)]

Kimberly, I would love to see what a Bobcat does when paired with a Regalia.

Thanks for the videos - they're valuable information. A picture (albeit a moving one) is worth a thousand words.......

-Diane

[kbinkster]

Thanks, Diane. I have an older model Bobcat her right now, but not one of the newer models with the sharper pinpoint flame. Maybe I'll go ahead and do one with the old version now and and do one with the new version when/if I ever get one for myself.

[Diane (clarus)]

Kimberly, there are many of us who have the older model Bobcats .

-Diane

[kbinkster]

I'm happy to present:
Carlisle Mini CC on 10 LPM Regalia

The Mobile Video Version is being uploaded right now. If you have a slower connection, you might want to watch the mobile video versions of my videos. Please rate them if you like them. Thanks!

[Alaska]

Kimberly:

What You Tube user name and password should I use to view your Mini CC with a 10 LMP Regaila that you just posted?

[kbinkster]

Oops! Sorry about that. It's fixed,now.

[kbinkster]

Here is the mobile video version:
Carlisle Mini CC on 10 LPM Regalia - mobile video version

[Alaska]

Nice video. Will have to drag out the Mini CC and see how it performs on two 9 PSI 5 LMP machines. Tried using it on one 5 PSI 5 LPM and yes it worked but not well. The Cricket on the two 9 PSI 5 LMP machines performs very well.

What differences are you seeing between the Mini CC and Cricket on the same setup?

[kbinkster]

Well, in that first video of the Scorpion I made, I don't think we took measurements of the centerfire (same as the Cricket). When I got a new camera, I made another video of the Scorpion on the Regalia. We did take measurements of the centerfire with that video. That one should be ready in the next week or two.

When running the largest neutral flame using the same set-up, I found that the centerfire of the Scorpion (the Cricket) outperformed the Mini CC.

from the video I just published:

Mini CC on 10 LPM Regalia
candle length: 0.400"
shoulder width: 0.800"
flame length: 13.5"

Willy ran a nice clean flame with slightly shorter candles on the videos than during previous testing.


from the video not yet published where we measure the centerfire of the Scorpion:

GTT Scorpion centerfire (same as Cricket)
candle length: 0.700"
shoulder width: 0.900"
flame length: 15"

Willy ran a nice clean flame with shorter candles on the videos.

This is consistent with earlier testing we did using the Regalia and a stand-alone Cricket:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=107835

From that report linked above:

Carlisle Mini CC
candle length: 0.800” (longer center jet)
shoulder width: 0.900”
flame length: 9”

time to cut through 8mm boro rod: 16 seconds

candle length: 0.575” (center jet more even with rest)
shoulder width: 0.800”
flame length: 13”


from the report linked above:

GTT Cricket
candle length: 1”
shoulder width: 1.150”
flame length: 14”

time to cut through 8mm boro rod: 14 seconds



I had a surprise when I reviewed the data. I had always thought that the Mini CC had a wider flame. Everyone with a Mini CC talks about how much wider the flame is on the Mini CC than on other bead torches. Upon measuring it, I found that when the torch is being run on its largest neutral flame, the Mini CC's flame is not the widest in its class. Instead, other torches have as wide, if not wider, a flame shoulder when running the largest neutral flame on a 10 LPM concentrator. How the flame is adjusted makes a huge difference in flame width. So, while I might run it one way and have a wider flame, I might run it another way and have a narrower flame.

But aside from the flame width stuff, I found that the Cricket/Scorpion centerfire has a more aggressive, hard driving flame to it on 10LPM than the Mini CC. This is evidenced by the measurement of the candle lengths and the overall flame lengths. On the melt tests done in the previous testing, the Cricket took only 14 seconds to cut through an 8mm boro rod. The Mini CC took 16 seconds to cut through the same rod. On tanked oxygen, the Mini CC might do better than the other torches, or it might not. But, it will have to use a lot more oxygen in the process and that gets expensive.

[Alaska]

Kimberly:

Thanks for the update on both torches. My overall feeling is the same as your findings. The Cricket is more efficient in the oxygen department and will produce more heat for a given volume of oxygen.

[Lisi]

Kimberly,

Thank you so much! I know for a fact that this torch and my generator would be perfect for each other! This machine I have puts out waaayyy to much oxy for the Bobcat, so the Scorpion would love it!

(I think you know what I have, I complain all the time that no one else has one!) - Airsep AS-12A

[kbinkster]

I'm glad that you are watching my videos! Thank you!

Lisi, I do remember you posting about your concentrator and that it has a high output, but I forgot exactly how many LPMs (or CFHs) it puts out and at what psi.


I'm almost finished with the video showing the Minor on the 10 LPM Regalia (I've been up all night working on some of the details). I can't wait to get it uploaded!

I am also about half way through one showing the Barracuda on Regalia.

[MerryFool]

Originally Posted by kbinkster

I'm happy to present:
Carlisle Mini CC on 10 LPM Regalia

That was really interesting and informative, Kimberly! Thanks!

[crofootadv]

Kimberly, what version of mini are you using, a fairly "new" one ? Mine is just about 10 years old (no "high Oxy" option) and my candles look like they spread out more than your in the video.

I've done some tests too with friends oxycons hooked to mine and we came to similar conclusion - one one 5lpm machine, the mini really putters along slowly (I'd guess less than 50%) One two oxycons, the lpm problem is solved, but it still won't get to full heat. My mini seems to like the just slightly purer O2 from a tank to get to full heat, and my flame seems to be slightly wider too, I'll try to measure today.

You said you have a O2 analyzer, what % of O2 are you getting from the Regalia ? And I wonder what the average % of O2 we get from tanks is ?

I know when I was back mixing Nitrox for scuba tanks, most of our big supply O2 tanks from the local gas company came in at well above 99%, usually like 99.98 or 99.99% O2, but that was medical grade. Same source, but I wonder if the industrial tanks get contaminated after a few years.

Originally Posted by kbinkster

I had a surprise when I reviewed the data. I had always thought that the Mini CC had a wider flame. Everyone with a Mini CC talks about how much wider the flame is on the Mini CC than on other bead torches. Upon measuring it, I found that when the torch is being run on its largest neutral flame, the Mini CC's flame is not the widest in its class. Instead, other torches have as wide, if not wider, a flame shoulder when running the largest neutral flame on a 10 LPM concentrator. How the flame is adjusted makes a huge difference in flame width. So, while I might run it one way and have a wider flame, I might run it another way and have a narrower flame.

But aside from the flame width stuff, I found that the Cricket/Scorpion centerfire has a more aggressive, hard driving flame to it on 10LPM than the Mini CC. This is evidenced by the measurement of the candle lengths and the overall flame lengths. On the melt tests done in the previous testing, the Cricket took only 14 seconds to cut through an 8mm boro rod. The Mini CC took 16 seconds to cut through the same rod. On tanked oxygen, the Mini CC might do better than the other torches, or it might not. But, it will have to use a lot more oxygen in the process and that gets expensive.

[kbinkster]

Hi Greg,

I have the "High Oxy" version of the Mini CC. It has an H stamped on the body. I got it a few years ago (I still have the box). I think I might have mistakenly said that the High Oxy version was the one that could get the better pinpoint. The High Oxy is supposed to give the wider flame. Keep in mind that flames aren't easy to capture on video and will look smaller than they do in person. A lot depends on the lighting.

Tanked oxygen is usually 98+%, even for industrial grade. Concentrators don't typically put out more than 95-95%, because even when they are running at their most efficient level, about 4% of the output will be the trace gasses that are separated with the oxygen away from the nitrogen. The oxygen that goes into tanks goes through more separation until the concentration reaches as high as it is.

The last time I checked the purity of my machine, it was 93-94% at 10 LPM, and I am at an elevation of 6,000 - 6,500 feet. The specs for the Regalia are 90% (+/-) at 10 LPM at sea level. 90% is plenty for lampworking. You can still get great heat and work sensitive glass. Some people even prefer it to tanked.

It's a give and tank. You might not get the same performance on a concentrator, but you will get a lot of great benefits. No more money spent on oxygen, no more time lost swapping out tanks, no more handling heavy cylinders, no more running out of oxygen in the middle of a piece or over the weekend when the welding shop is closed, no more chaining anything to the wall, etc..

[kbinkster]

I am excited to announce that my video showing the Nortel Minor on the 10 LPM Regalia is uploaded.
The Nortel Minor on the Regalia
The Nortel Minor on the Regalia - mobile video version

If you like it, please rate it!

[sixbabygirls]

That is awesome video and information thanks Kimberley
now i need to find a new concentrator

[sixbabygirls]

Do you (pyronamix) ship to canada

[briatha]

Awesome videos Kimberly!!
I absolutely love my regalia

[wendybritt]

Kimberly...did you ever do the video with your older Bobcat? My Bobcat is about 4 years old so I am assuming it is the "older" version...is there any way to know for certain...do they look any different?

[kbinkster]

I have not yet done any Bobcat videos. The new ones look similar to the Cricket with a one-piece valve body/manifold/cone. The older models are still pretty awesome.

[wendybritt]

Thanks Kimberly...I am actually saving up to purchase a larger oxycon - the stuff I am making is pretty large [soft glass] and I get weary getting enough glass on the mandrel - once I get more oxygen then I will make a decision on whether I need a larger torch.

I currently have a single Devilbiss 5 LPM machine - and I could just add another, but I am tempted to get either a reconditioned 8 LPM, 20 psi machine or a new Regalia. Since I don't know which torch I want, it's difficult to know which way to go. I need to find a way to try some larger torches. The 8LPM would give me the option of adding another 8 LPM later, [which would open up some torch options] while keeping my investment down a little bit now - but a brand new Regalia [and warranty] is attractive too - perhaps with a Scorpion!!

[kbinkster]

The Regalia (and the 9 psi 10 LPM Invacare, for that matter) can connect to your DeVilbiss giving you quite a bit of oxygen. It would be fantastic on a Scorpion, if that's the direction you're heading.

[wendybritt]

If I used the Devilbiss for the centerflame on a Scorpion, and a Regalia for the outerflame, would that give me anything more than running the entire Scorpion on a Regalia?

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by wendybritt

If I used the Devilbiss for the centerflame on a Scorpion, and a Regalia for the outerflame, would that give me anything more than running the entire Scorpion on a Regalia?

Ack! I can't believe I missed your question! I'm sorry!

Well... I would put the two together instead of running the center on one and the outer on the other. Why? Because sometimes you want a larger centerfire than what 5 LPM can provide and sometimes, you might want to divert more oxygen to the outerfire from the centerfire (this applies more to something larger than the DeVilbiss, like another 10 LPM machine being run on the center). If the machines are compatible in their psi output, and the Regalia and DeVilbiss are, then it is better to combine them and run the entire torch off the combination. Adding a DeVilbiss to the Regalia in that way would give you more power than a single Regalia.

[kbinkster]

I put another video up on YouTube. This one is of the Barracuda being run from a single 10 LPM Regalia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgPl56JTrEw

[pittypat]

Ok, Kimberly,,,it is time to do the megaminor, please??????????? I am running on a Devilbiss5, am looking for more for Christmas present! Have been looking at prices, that is for sure. I would like to do larger creatures and some boro.
Thanks, Pat