Tank vs concentrator

Binks · #1 2014-06-14, 10:19am

I apologize for repeating any previous posts, but I've searched the archives and still have questions.

I learned on liquid or tanked oxygen, so as I'm setting up my studio, I'm trying to make the big choice between tanks and concentrator. I've read about the breathing issue with concentrators and watched some videos of how much variation there can be. Some videos show steady flames with fluttering tips, others show major changes. I'm concerned that I will get the jumpy flame and end up frustrated. I know that some use holding tanks, but wondered how much that reduced the variation.

Cost is a big factor, I'm trying to keep to a budget. The OxyCon I'm looking at will be about $500. The local welding supply offers 5 year leases on 200L tanks for $189, regulators for ~$100, and refills plus delivery are $64 a pop. I would get about 60ish hours of oxygen from tanks for the same price as the OxyCon. How many hours are OxyCons usually good for?

I also wonder about how to even use the OxyCon with my torch. I was taught to turn on the propane, light it and then add oxygen, but with the OxyCon it seems it always needs to have the oxygen valve open, how does that effect start up?

I guess I'm just afraid of blowing up my house or damaging my torch.

I would appreciate any guidance, advice or tips.

Baywinger · #2 2014-06-14, 10:48am

What torch are you running and what is it's oxy requirement?
oxy cons only supply a certain amount of oxygen and you have to buy either larger units or chain units together to supply large amounts of oxygen. as for flickerng I run 3 oxy cons into an 11 gal holding tank so there is a reserve of oxy to keep the torch fed and to supply a larger need. also oxy cons come in different pressure ratings so again you need to match that with what your torch needs. you can get some savings in oxy by running a center fire on an oxy con and the outer fire on a tank

Binks · #3 2014-06-14, 12:40pm

I have a Lynx, it takes 7LPM. The OxyCon I was looking at is the EX-15, it produces 8LPM at 15PSI. The machine won't have to run flat out to give me the juice I need. I like to make mid to large beads and small soft glass sculptures. I occasionally use a little boro, pendants and small sculpture, but I like soft glass more.

Lorraine Chandler · #4 2014-06-14, 2:10pm

Try your set up with the oxycon as it is the cheapest way to go for now. You can start saving your pennies for a second one later on if you like using it or you can use your savings to go with a different set up later.

echeveria · #5 2014-06-14, 7:20pm

Also, I shut off my oxycon to light my torch.

Binks · #6 2014-06-14, 8:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by echeveria

Also, I shut off my oxycon to light my torch.

Ok, I'll try to do that! Do you have a holding tank?

Baywinger · #7 2014-06-15, 3:49pm

the recommended oxy pressure for the lynx from GTT is to your Set Oxygen Regulator to 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure.
the ex 15 only supplies 15 psi

Baywinger · #8 2014-06-15, 3:51pm

as for lighting your torch with an oxy con I just turn down the open oxygen valve till it is barely on turn on the propane light it then adjust the flame

Hayley · #9 2014-06-15, 4:01pm

You will need two Ex15 to really utilize the potential of a Lynx (even with two, it won't be like using it on tanked oxygen).

You just turn off the oxygen valve long enough to light the torch. It doesn't hurt the oxycons doing that for a second.

I use an EX15 and a Regalia with my Barracuda without a holding tank. I also have the option of adding another M15/EX15 when I want to use both inner and outer rings. Never had a problem with fluttering flames.

Baywinger · #10 2014-06-15, 5:16pm

two m20's would be better

Binks · #11 2014-06-15, 7:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baywinger

the recommended oxy pressure for the lynx from GTT is to your Set Oxygen Regulator to 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure.
the ex 15 only supplies 15 psi

The GTT instructions say 10-15 psi, I just double checked my manual because I thought I'd made a big mistake! The Phantom is 25-30 psi, I don't have a Phantom, just a Lynx, maybe someday...

I may get another OxyCon later, but for now I can only afford one. I've been working like crazy and tutoring on the side to fund this studio. I just want to get want I need to get off the ground and then build on it.

My next question, will it fit in my car? I have a Mini Cooper.

Baywinger · #12 2014-06-15, 11:00pm

my apologies I was looking at the info for the lynx hand torch not the lynx bench torch
INSTRUCTIONS FOR LYNX HAND TORCHES:

 Set Propane Tank Regulator to 10 lbs. of pressure.

 Set Oxygen Regulator to 25 to 30 lbs. of pressure.

istandalone24/7 · #13 2014-06-16, 9:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by echeveria

Also, I shut off my oxycon to light my torch.

why exactly? why not just close the oxy valve on the torch for a second while you light the propane?
yes technically oxycons should not be run w/o flow (like don't run the oxycon w/o torch value open) but for the 2 seconds it takes to light the torch.......

i think by turning your oxycon on and off, you're doing more damage/wear & tear then if you just closed the valve briefly.

istandalone24/7 · #14 2014-06-16, 9:27am

oh btw....an ex15 will power a lynx just fine for beads, but don't expect a very oxidizing flame.
two ex15's and it will be a whole different torch...more like the tanked/lox that you are used to.
definitely go the holding tank route too...those 11 gal "compressed air holding tanks" that you top off your car tires with work great and are somewhat cheap if found on sale.

Baywinger · #15 2014-06-16, 9:48am

you can often get the holding tanks from harbor freight, then it is very simple to modify the tank to feed the oxy cons into the tank to feed your torch, the oxy cons can simply be teed together before going into the holding tank
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...ank-65595.html

Binks · #16 2014-06-16, 7:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baywinger

you can often get the holding tanks from harbor freight, then it is very simple to modify the tank to feed the oxy cons into the tank to feed your torch, the oxy cons can simply be teed together before going into the holding tank
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-too...ank-65595.html

I was looking at those tanks yesterday. It's an option I'm going to try soon.

I need to have my old 50s era wiring up dated for sure! My electrician and I have already discussed the fan and kiln, but I'll need to get the OxyCon powered. He's going to give my studio it's own box right there for easy access.

artsyuno · #17 2014-06-17, 11:08am

I made a holding tank with a Harbor Freight tank. It only takes a few minutes and a couple parts.

medesigns · #18 2014-09-13, 2:59pm

Hi, I was taught (years ago) the POOP. To start up Propane, Oxygen then to shut down, Oxygen, Propane. Turn on P, O and shut down O, P. I have never blown up my homes and I lived in three states.

Marie

Dasi · #19 2014-09-16, 9:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

You will need two Ex15 to really utilize the potential of a Lynx (even with two, it won't be like using it on tanked oxygen).

You just turn off the oxygen valve long enough to light the torch. It doesn't hurt the oxycons doing that for a second.

I use an EX15 and a Regalia with my Barracuda without a holding tank. I also have the option of adding another M15/EX15 when I want to use both inner and outer rings. Never had a problem with fluttering flames.

This info is perfect and exactly what I was going to say! As for fluttering flames, if the ball is not holding steady then the flame will fluctuate.... The carburetor is not working and needs work. That is what causes the look of breathing in the flame. Just had this problem with my concentrator and David from Available O2 rebuilt mine. Now the flame holds steady. Tanks are alway better but you pay so much more per year then the cost of a few concentrators.

Dasi · #20 2014-09-16, 9:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by medesigns

Hi, I was taught (years ago) the POOP. To start up Propane, Oxygen then to shut down, Oxygen, Propane. Turn on P, O and shut down O, P. I have never blown up my homes and I lived in three states.

Marie

Years ago... POOP was before concentrators! Yes, on tanks this is what is taught STILL.

But you damage concentrators closing off the flow of O2 for any length of time. I ALWAYS leave the 02 valve open! To light the torch just Turn it off just the few seconds it takes to light the propane flame when you are ready too torch. When you turn off the flame, just turn off the propane. If you Leave the concentrator running while the O2 valve on the torch is closed, you will damage the concentrator in the long run...

Floorkasp · #21 2014-10-04, 9:11am

I was actually told (I have only been lampworking for just over a year) that it is best to not switch the oxycon on and off too often. Apparently, this causes a lot of wear. They were intended to run day and night. For turning on, I do what others said was well: keep the oxycon running for a minute or so with the valve open, then turn down the valve, open the gas, turn on the gas, and then turn up the oxygen. When I take a break, or have to walk away from my flame, I will turn off the propane, but just keep the oxygen running.

flowman · #22 2014-10-23, 6:56am

Wow, I've been doing it all wrong--I had never heard that running the concentrator with the torch valve closed can damage it. I've only had mine for a year, but I'm thinking of switching to tanks--I took my bobcat to Hot Times and it was a like a completely different torch--great flame and plenty of O2 to avoid reduction with rods that I've had trouble with at home. I was planning to keep my oxycon to run my Little (silversmithing) torch with.

Thanks, I need to start reading LE more regularly.

LarryC · #23 2014-10-23, 1:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by flowman

Wow, I've been doing it all wrong--I had never heard that running the concentrator with the torch valve closed can damage it. I've only had mine for a year, but I'm thinking of switching to tanks--I took my bobcat to Hot Times and it was a like a completely different torch--great flame and plenty of O2 to avoid reduction with rods that I've had trouble with at home. I was planning to keep my oxycon to run my Little (silversmithing) torch with.

Thanks, I need to start reading LE more regularly.

no surprise. Never met anyone who didnt experience a large boost in performance using tanked vs. a concentrator. what size tank are you getting?

dusty · #24 2014-10-24, 8:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by istandalone24/7

definitely go the holding tank route too...

I unhooked my holding tank after running it for a few hours. I'd turn the oxygen down at the torch, and then it'd build up pressure inside the holding tank and turn itself back up, and vice versa. It didn't matter if I changed it a little or a lot, it was going to adjust itself over the next half a minute. Maybe it's my concentrators, but I get a nice, predictable, steady flow without the holding tank, and the tank didn't offer any benefit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dasi

Years ago... POOP was before concentrators! Yes, on tanks this is what is taught STILL.

But you damage concentrators closing off the flow of O2 for any length of time. I ALWAYS leave the 02 valve open! To light the torch just Turn it off just the few seconds it takes to light the propane flame when you are ready too torch. When you turn off the flame, just turn off the propane. If you Leave the concentrator running while the O2 valve on the torch is closed, you will damage the concentrator in the long run...

The POOP order is actually more for premix torches, which tend to pop (small internal explosion) and can cause a flashback if the propane is turned off before the oxygen. You can shut off the oxygen for the fraction of a second it it takes to turn off the propane without fearing damage to your machines.