Propane smell

SunDoorBeads · #1 2007-05-23, 7:53pm

Hi I just hooked up my minor & oxy con tonight for the 1st time I was on a hot head prior to tonight. When I turned the propane valve on I could smell a pretty strong odor but when I put dish detergent on the connection nothing happened is this normal? I am a little afraid of getting poisoned by carbon monoxide any tips would be great I work out of my garage with the door up so air can circulate. Thanks in advance for any help

Chuckie · #2 2007-05-23, 8:08pm

Where is the smell originating from? Is it closer to your torch or closer to your tank? You need to check all the connections. You should check the seal at the tank to the regulator, from the regulator to the hose, from the hose to the torch. You may also need to check the entire hose. It's a good idea to do a periodic check for hose leaks anyway.

Did you attach the regulator to the tank using teflon tape to help seal the threads? If you didn't, you should get some of the tape and wrap the threads before seating the regulator on the tank.

Oh, and double check your torch to make sure the gas knob is OFF before turning on the tank...unlike I did on my first attempt to fire up my torch. My curious nephew had turned the knobs while I wasn't looking the day before I first used it. Whew...was that stinky!

SunDoorBeads · #3 2007-05-23, 8:46pm

Thanks for the tip I will check out everything- just out of curiosity and clarification you should not smell any gasey smell right? oh and the smell seems to be coming from the tank. Thanks again for such a quick reply

Chuckie · #4 2007-05-23, 9:17pm

No, you shouldn't smell any gas. Try reseating the gauge again with some teflon tape.

dogmaw · #5 2007-05-24, 6:22am

Here is a really good thread by our safety guru Dale. Please, read this all the way through. One of the things he explains is why NOT to use teflon tape.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ht=teflon+tape

Dale M. · #6 2007-05-24, 7:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckie

Did you attach the regulator to the tank using teflon tape to help seal the threads? If you didn't, you should get some of the tape and wrap the threads before seating the regulator on the tank.

No....... Teflon tape in propane tank threads are a no-no..... The actual seal is in the nose of the connector.. Its either metal to metal or metal to "O" ring. . Teflon tape is only uses for metal to metal tapered pipe thread connections (hard piping) not for quick change tank connections...

Using teflon tape may be actually cause more problems than it cures....

Its a bad idea, just dont do it.... It just masks the real problem with the connection...

Dale

kbinkster · #7 2007-05-24, 12:25pm

Brass is such a soft metal and can easily get nicked or bent. Also, debris can get in there. Check the inside of your fitting as well as the threads to make sure that there isn't a hang-up in there that would keep it from screwing on correctly and tightly and holding the connection together.

Like Dale said, the connection is either metal-to-metal or metal-to-O ring and it is in the nose of the connector.

In general, when you do a bubble test for leaks, make sure that your tank is on and your torch is off so the line is as pressurized as it can be. Brush the soapy water onto every fitting, joint, and connection. Inspect the line itself for any damage. I think that you could dip a segment of line at a time into a bucket or tray of water and check for bubbles if you suspect a pin leak in your hose, too.

Chuckie · #8 2007-05-24, 1:35pm

There are actually two schools of thought regarding the use of teflon tape to secure regulators to propane tanks. But if you do use teflon tape, there are safety precautions you must take to use it.

First, if the regulator seal is a compression-type seal, like the metal-to-O ring Dale mentioned, you will likely not ever have a problem getting a good seal. But if the seal is metal to metal threads, some people prefer to add teflon tape.

If you do use the tape, buy the teflon tape that is specially made for use with gas lines. There are two different types and if it is not rated for use with gas, it will deteriorate over time. Secondly, when you wrap the threads, avoid wrapping the bottom few rows of threads. If you get any of the tape down under the seal, it can get sucked into the regulator and mess up your regulator and the flow of your gas.

When you remove the regulator, you have to be extra careful not to let any of the tape debris fall into the opening for the same reason. In addition, as Kim mentions, debris can cause an improper seal when you put the regulator back on.

That is why a lot of people recommend that people do not use teflon tape. It has to be used correctly if you are going to use it.

Dale M. · #9 2007-05-24, 2:10pm

There is only one correct way, no matter how many schools of thought other people claim....

Any CGA type of metal to metal connection or metal to "O" ring should NOT have Teflon tape on it. These are industry standards and have been designed to eliminate the need for any sealing tape. IF the CGA type connector will not seal it is defective and components need to be replaced.

Its pretty well laid out here on what is a CGS connector that should not have Teflon tape and tapered pipe threads that should have tape as a sealer...

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75

Dale

bhhco · #10 2007-05-24, 3:41pm

Dale is 100% correct. To think that a seal can be made with teflon tape on a regulator to BBQ propane tank connection is simply wrong and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of all the different types of 'pipe threads' used. Do a google search on pipe threads and spend a few days reading all the types, functions, designs and measurements.

It is categorically impossible to create 'thread seal' with teflon tape on the type of threads used to connect a regulator to a BBQ tank valve -- it simply cannot withstand the pressure differential between the inside tank pressure and the atmosphere.

I don't know where the idea came from that it could be done, possibly from some homeowner who used teflon tape to attach a shower head in a bathroom... but it does not apply to gas regulator-to-tank valve fittings... ever. It only applies, as Dale said... to National Pipe Thread (NPT) steel tapered threads which are either doped or taped, and in addition, tightened by wrench at least 3/4 revolution after hand tight, until the steel-to-steel thread interface cuts into both thread faces.

Now... as far as what the poster 'smelled'. First, it was propane odorant, not carbon monoxide... so there is no danger of CO poisoning. Physically, the propane might make you quesy, but it's real potential for harm is fire. Second, it probably was 'normal' in an abnormal sort of way. The post is thin on details, and as others mentioned, if the torch valve was open, even a little, it could have come from the torch. The post does not say if the tank is outside, so if it's inside beside the torch then there is little way to differentiate the 'leak' source. If the torch valve was closed, and if all the connections were tight, and if everything was working as it should... in fact, if everything was acting as it should, then the regulator's internal pressure relief probably 'burped' and released a puff of propane from it's vent holes when the tank valve was opened... that is normal... it is coping with a sudden pressure rise. If the tank is outside, one usually has to be very close to it to know it even happens. If inside, it is very noticeable.

Finally... everyone (except Dale) needs to look inside the opening on the BBQ tank valve. You will notice in there that there is a black rubber ring. That is what the regulator seals to... nothing else inside the valve body. Sometimes that black o-ring inside the valve is damaged... and it will look damaged ... if it doesn't look shiny and new, then it's probably damaged and cannot seal to the regulator. If it hardens up (and they do) then the connection will leak. Sometimes the regulator has a o-ring on it too, and in that case a rubber-to-rubber mate occurs... which is prone to leaks. Which then leads us back to folks trying to 'fix' that leak problem with by using teflon tape on the threads

... and as Dale said... all that does is mask the real problem. Instead of an immediately noticeable leak to warn us of a problem, we get a smaller, much less perceptable, 'silent' fire prone leak. So do not use teflon tape on it. Ever.

SunDoorBeads... you did a good job noting the problem and asking for answers. You have a good head on your shoulders

. Keep the questions coming.

Me

WildBird · #11 2007-05-24, 5:22pm

Thanks for all this good info. I just went through a similar ordeal when I added another torch to my studio and went with the instant connects. I didn't know that teflon tape was an issue. In the long run I finally went back and exchanged for another quick connect for the propane 'hose to hose' connector. It isn't uncommon for these to be defective, as I now understand.
I was also told that if you have had your torch for a long time and have many hours on it, that you should check your torch knobs because they can get worn out and start leaking.

thanks again,
WildBird
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SunDoorBeads · #12 2007-05-24, 7:53pm

Thank you for all your posts especially the ones that could save me from burning my house down. My tank is inside and the smell was definately coming from the tank where it is connected to the regulator. I have yet to check everything I disconnected the hoses and the regulator until my hubby could check things out. I am brand new at the oxy/prop torch and all of you have been wonderful. Thanks again

Cat · #13 2007-05-24, 8:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDoorBeads

Thank you for all your posts especially the ones that could save me from burning my house down. My tank is inside...

I foresee more posts coming... lol Leaky tank inside = big problem.

Dale M. · #14 2007-05-24, 9:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat

I foresee more posts coming... lol Leaky tank inside = big problem.

Would a post like "tank should be outside at all times" be what you are thinking about?

or..

SunDoorBeads should read this thread in Safety forum?

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412

Dale

Dasi · #15 2007-06-11, 6:37am

I check for leaks using windex glass cleaner. This was a tip I got from Lori robbins....
The windex will evaporate and not leave soapy residue. It will bubble just like soap....

Also if the propane tank is almost empty, I find that torching gets stinky like the propane is leaking. When I smell propane, I check everything, but first after turning off the propane, I get the scale and weigh the tank. If it is almost empty, I know the reason and I go fill the tank and the smell goes away.