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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2006-12-10, 9:21pm
misfit misfit is offline
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Default going to give boro another try. a few questions.

So I saw the guy who had convinced me the last time to try boro, told him I was giving it another shot. (buying a starter kit from Brent)
And he suddenly had advise for me, more exspansive than last times at least.
What of this sounds on the button and worth listening too, and what of it sounds like I can saftly ignore???

A) this time buy clear. Boro is NOT soft glass and although I may hate and rarely to never use clear in soft glass EVERY peice will be mostly clear in boro. (I do tend to hate doing what most people do with clear in soft glass- Okay fine. price wise clear sounds good- and for what I want to do in boro it'll be fine too.)

B) forget about all those reds and oranges and bright opaque colors I love. (ummm. why? I read they can kiln strike and I read the directions for doing so- it doen't sound impossible, although all my red and orange did turn out brown and ugly last time, it will eventually work. right? There really isn't some hidden secret is there? I really like reds...)

c) learn to deal with thick rods. Boro rods come thick for a reason. Boro is done mostly with big thick rods and tubes. Forget about the 3-4 mm stringers I like working with and learn to cope. (Ummm why? since boro works so much slower doesn't that mean I have even more time to work with my 3-4mm rods? more control is possible right? )

D) forget about enamels, Powders yes but no enamels. (umm aren't they basically the same thing? can't I use the powders like I do enamels now? As in layering them up to get different color effects???)

E) turn up the heat. Really let the torch rip. ( ummm. why are not the manufactures recomended settings on the carsile enough? I really don't want to turn it up past the recomended psi. I like a small 4-6 inch flame, I suppose I could turn up the gases at the torch, but do I really need the huge flame as long as my boro still melts and I can keep the peice hot? or is this why I get only ugly dark browns??)

F) Last but not least. upgrade my vent. ( My hood currently has a 10 square foot front opening that can close down to 5 square foot opening, I can work with that if I sit, But I prefer to stand. the cfm is varitable 1000, 1250 or 1500. The main fan is a large squirl cage and I always have good air flow past me. Sure I dislike the odor of torching, but I always have. I Think now its the bead release I really smell. Do I really need more ventalation than this? This system passed the tests used for the chemical lab at the local college, built to the same specs, and was built by the same people. How could it not be enough????)

Thanks for any help.

A.

p.s. I'm feeling sort of like I'm being given reasons not to try boro again...
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Last edited by misfit; 2006-12-10 at 9:42pm.
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  #2  
Old 2006-12-11, 3:25am
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A... is dead on. Clear is your friend with boro. The sample pack is coming with clear... you'll see.

B- Don't forget about those colors... just use the Amber Purple or DAP that comes in your kit over white... then add some clear.

C- You can work whatever sized rod you want.

D- Powders are great... you'll love them.

E- I agree, let her rip. You don't have to go above reccomended pressures, but work it hot and fast! If you baby alot of the colors, you will get poop.

F- It sounds like your vent will suck your face off already, so I don't know about this one.


Boro is so much fun! I think you'll really like it after you give it another try.
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  #3  
Old 2006-12-11, 3:33am
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I have never smelled anything while torching and I have a really good sense of smell.
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  #4  
Old 2006-12-11, 9:51am
misfit misfit is offline
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thanks Brent. Nice to know part of why Ugly crap browns were happening.

Keven, I'm one of those people who can identify the different ingrediants in perfume and can tell when a fishtanks levels are off by smell alone. Trust me Bead release has a foul odor. smells almost as bad as kiln wash.
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  #5  
Old 2006-12-11, 1:36pm
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off on the smell tangent... have you noticed that gesso smells like urine? ewww
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  #6  
Old 2006-12-11, 2:15pm
misfit misfit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusticstudio View Post
off on the smell tangent... have you noticed that gesso smells like urine? ewww
yeah.... and some brown oil paints have a scent element to them thats almost identical to blood... always made me wonder what was in them both...
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  #7  
Old 2006-12-12, 11:54am
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try elvis red, it self strikes as it cools for a good transparent red, momkas opaque red is easier to work than GA, less boily.
pull your own stringers,
have great fun with powder and frit,
you can work a small flame size is just for size of project, its the btu's, temp, that melts the glass. i work details with a flame the size of a pencil lead.
use your tools to move the glass as well as gravity.
take a piece of tissue 6" x 1" and hold it by your face while vents are on, if it moves up towards a 45 degree angle away from you your system is good,
if not try enclosing it before changing everything, i just dropped glass in the rear and plexi on the sides (didnt want to feel boxed in but you could do wood or sheetrock) down from my hood to my table top, it starts about 6" foward of my torch head , need room to hold rods/puntis/tubing. made a great difference in the efficiency of my system, pulling just from where i am rather than the whole room, I added blue tape to the edges in the pic so you can see it.
i also run a fan or heater under my table towards me so fresh air is fed up at the edge of the table between me and the torch.
ro
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  #8  
Old 2006-12-12, 12:26pm
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You want bright opaque reds and oranges? These are Northstar, but GA makes similar colors:



They're not striking colors, and you have to be careful about them boiling, particularly when you're trying to use them as stringer.
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  #9  
Old 2006-12-12, 12:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
yeah.... and some brown oil paints have a scent element to them thats almost identical to blood... always made me wonder what was in them both...
Well, blood smells like iron, maybe that's it?
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  #10  
Old 2006-12-12, 4:09pm
misfit misfit is offline
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Thanks for all the hints everyone.

My vent is an enclosed booth.
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  #11  
Old 2006-12-12, 8:09pm
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You are making me hungry with those colors Emily!!

Paula
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  #12  
Old 2006-12-12, 9:42pm
misfit misfit is offline
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ordered the cherry, goldenrod and canary. Lava looked to special to resist also. debating on the poppy. they are just the sort of colors I love.
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Old 2006-12-12, 11:45pm
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A. Yes...buy lots of clear. Boro color can be expensive. Even if you don't encase a lot, clear can be a great money saving friend especially if you work on a large scale. I build a volume of clear then case it with my color. Clear is good!

B. No reason you can't try them. They can be frustrating but with some practice you can get the hang of it. A few hints: Work the trans. reds and oranges hot, they will look clear and be hard to see, try both kiln and flame striking until you find what you like. The Opaque reds (and most crayon colors) can boil if you work them to hot. If you have trouble with them try encasing before pulling your stringer. Yet another good reason to buy clear.

C. Depends on what you're making. If you’re making beads then stick with the thinner stuff. If you want to work larger scale (marbles and sculptural) you will probably want thicker rods.

D & F. As long as you have good ventilation no problem....why not play??? Sounds like your set.

E. In general, with boro you will want to work hotter and faster than you do with soft glass. NO you do not need to torture your torch. Turning it up some is ok but learning to work with the different areas of the flame is better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
p.s. I'm feeling sort of like I'm being given reasons not to try boro again...
I don't think you got bad advice; it's just tailored to that persons style of work. Don't be discouraged, give it another try, Boro can be frustrating at times but ultimately it is a blast.
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  #14  
Old 2006-12-13, 7:26am
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I would stay away from Northstar cadmium colors. Lava, Cherry, and Poppy boil just by looking at them. I have never had any good luck with them. Goldenrod and Canary are slightly better, but not much.

If you want crayon colors, GA Acid Yellow and Rasta Gold are nice. Momka's Sunset Orange is my favorite crayon color. It hardly ever boils on me, and I'm on a CC.
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Old 2006-12-13, 9:40am
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Misfit, if you PM me your mailing address, I'll send you some shorts of GA crayon colors -- reds, oranges, and yellows. I don't know the names, but maybe people here can help you figure out which is which. It will be just a little bit to play with to see if you like them better than the Northstar you've ordered.

GA gives bags of shorts (broken rods) to teachers to hand out at classes, and for some reason they seem to be mostly the crayon colors. I've taken a couple of classes from teachers who use GA and have gotten more of the crayon colors than I'm likely to use. I'm not a big fan of the hot colors. I want to keep a little for myself, but I'll be glad to pass some on to you, too.
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  #16  
Old 2006-12-13, 10:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo View Post
I would stay away from Northstar cadmium colors. Lava, Cherry, and Poppy boil just by looking at them. I have never had any good luck with them. Goldenrod and Canary are slightly better, but not much.

If you want crayon colors, GA Acid Yellow and Rasta Gold are nice. Momka's Sunset Orange is my favorite crayon color. It hardly ever boils on me, and I'm on a CC.
I second that recommendation for Momka's Sunset Orange. It is the only orange that hasn't caused problems for me. Momka's yellow is also pretty good.
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Old 2006-12-13, 10:58am
misfit misfit is offline
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I'm on a cc also, does that make a difference? Its a good hot torch, so I assumed it would be a good one for boro.

So what are the best colors to learn with? Besides what Brent is including in his package. So far what I've tried is:

Northstar NS-05 Orange
Northstar NS-06 Dark Orange
Northstar NS-07 Ruby
Northstar NS-08 Dark Ruby
Borobars Mellow Yellow
Borobars grape

I have to honestly say that I found the results of the Northstar *UGLY* I think I boiled the boro bars, their colors got a tad dingy looking too but it might have been because of the NS.
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Old 2006-12-13, 11:10am
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Honestly, I think the colors included in my boro beginners package are great ones...

http://www.soleiletlune.com/store/in...&productId=234

All of those colors boil easily (which is probably why they came out ugly), and I don't recommend working them on a CC without encasing them. The pre-mix flame on a CC is very hard on sensitive colors because it's so hot.
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