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Jelveh Designs - Glass Beads Torched One-by-One

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  #1  
Old 2014-06-10, 5:05am
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Default What kind of a torch do I need?

Hello everyone!

I have a struggle with choosing what torch I should aim for with my plans, so I was hoping you could help me choose.

I'm currently working on a HotHead, and while I love my little torch friend it's really rather slow for my taste. Sure, when I'm making a bead I didn't completely thing through it's good to have some time to think what to apply next. But when I have to make something big, and it's melting so slowly - I'm going mad.

For now I've only worked with sodo glass, but in the future I plan on working with 96 COE glass, and boro glass (also I'm not wuite sure ot it's properties and abilities), I want to work with different DH glasses to achieve fun silver effects, and more that anything I want to be able to go BIG on any bead or whatever I make. I know there are some torches that allow you to make monstrously big things, and well, that is my goal.

I want to be able to make tiny beads, big beads, figurines, something hollow (and so that it wouldn't shatter while I heat the other end of it) and just everything.

Is there a torch for me? I know with these qualities it's probably gonna cost me a fortune, but I have a specific and perfect torch for all of that on aim, I'm sure I'll be able to collect the money I need.
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  #2  
Old 2014-06-10, 12:46pm
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cant go wrong with a GTT Mirage. I have used one for almost two years. Thoroughly happy with it. Its gonna cost about $1800.
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  #3  
Old 2014-06-10, 2:27pm
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I'd get the biggest you can afford & run effectively with whatever oxygen set up you have.
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  #4  
Old 2014-06-10, 2:50pm
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the Bethlehem bravo and champion are very nice and versatile torches
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  #5  
Old 2014-06-10, 10:56pm
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Guys, thank you all for responses! For now from your advice I like the GTT Mirage, but it's pricey. What are it's advantages against the Bethlehem? There's no info I can properly put to use in stores
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  #6  
Old 2014-06-11, 3:49am
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I use and like the National-8 torch. It will cost around three hundred to get started and as you want to grow you can add new tips. To me it's the best deal by far for a starting torch.

http://www.sundanceglass.com/national8mtr.html

Bob
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  #7  
Old 2014-06-11, 4:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisaya View Post
Guys, thank you all for responses! For now from your advice I like the GTT Mirage, but it's pricey. What are it's advantages against the Bethlehem? There's no info I can properly put to use in stores

The center fire of the Mirage is is much better than anything Bethlehem has. Other than that I like Bethlehem torches better. And do you really want to wait 6 months to a year for a GTT? I think the Bravo would be a very nice starter torch that will take you a long time to outgrow.
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  #8  
Old 2014-06-11, 5:41am
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Originally Posted by bshelle View Post
I'd get the biggest you can afford & run effectively with whatever oxygen set up you have.

This.
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Old 2014-06-11, 7:08am
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Originally Posted by Kisaya View Post
Guys, thank you all for responses! For now from your advice I like the GTT Mirage, but it's pricey. What are it's advantages against the Bethlehem? There's no info I can properly put to use in stores
What kind of oxy set up are you going to use?
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  #10  
Old 2014-06-11, 9:58am
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What kind of oxy set up are you going to use?
I'm not sure what that means - so I need to decide that firrs? because as long as I know I'll use whayever mix the torch needs - probable oxy+propane.
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  #11  
Old 2014-06-11, 12:39pm
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Shelley is asking what you plan on using for your oxygen source-- tanked oxygen or oxygen concentrator(s). Tanked oxygen should run most any torch. Oxygen concentrator(s) should be purchased with a particular torch in mind since they can come with different LPM/PSI features. If you go with an oxygen concentrator, make sure it meets the torch's requirement for both. Hope that makes sense.

Mimi
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  #12  
Old 2014-06-11, 12:58pm
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Thanks Mimi, now I get it. yes, I plan on using an ozy concentrator - it's pricey but in a long use it will pay off, plus I know it's not very safe to use oxy and propane tanks together.

So far I really like the GTT Mirage torch, even if I have to wait for half a year - I don't have that kind of money right now anyway, it's gonna take some time to collect it. I think in a long perspective the bigger torch i get (GTT from all I've found) the better it is - I like to work big
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  #13  
Old 2014-06-11, 1:59pm
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I haven't used a Mirage, but my impression is that you really need tanked oxygen for it, or multiple concentrators. Sorry I can't be more specific! But do a search on the forum for Mirage torch, or contact GTT to get the specific oxygen requirements for it.

Mimi
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  #14  
Old 2014-06-11, 3:01pm
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I took a class at Loren Stump's studio and brought my own Bethlehem Barracuda (it's been replaced by the Bravo) Loren had Mirage and Delta Mag torches - with five of us building butterfly murrine over five days and working BIG, I have to say that my Barracuda held its own. I was not slowed down by it being smaller than the GTTs.

If you want to encase 104 COE silver glass (Double Helix, etc.), I'd recommend getting a Bethlehem instead of a GTT. The thrusting heat of GTT torches that's perfect for boro, is not as forgiving when it comes to melting down encasement without erasing all the silver glass effects. Just my opinion for whatever it's worth...

Lastly, you can power a Bravo quite effectively with oxygen concentrators.
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  #15  
Old 2014-06-11, 7:48pm
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Forget about oxygen concentrators if you want to do large Boro objects and I would not suggest the mirage with concentrators at all. It is a large torch and it requires a large volume of high purity oxygen. fact is oxygen tanks handled responsibly are much safer then propane tanks. For large Boro work you will find better info at talkglass.com.
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  #16  
Old 2014-06-17, 9:10am
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I have recently switched from a GTT cheetah too the Beth Champion I find I like how how the Beth flame works the colors both soft and boro better than the GTT flame while I did like the triple mix tech very much I often had issues of boiling boro colors with the driving heat from the GTT torch. I am finding working the Champ even on full power of 36 ports I get a very powerful and hot flame but it is not boiling the colors the same as the 13 port Cheetah did. the large Champ is also much more oxy conservative than the cheetah. the new ones like the Bravo and Champ are engineered to work on Oxy cons as well as tanks, Like Larry said the GTT need Tanks to run or the realy expensive high pressure high volume oxycon systems.
and Yes you can get a Beth torch today good luck with the GTT.
by the way if you where looking at the Mirage it is the Champion not the Bravo you should look at as it is a similar size torch. the main difference of course is GTT's proprietary triple mix tech and so far I am not missing it at all. the center fire can get an extremely fine point and striking boro is not a problem.
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  #17  
Old 2014-06-17, 9:14am
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are you any where near the SF North Bay area? if you are you can stop by my studio and see how you like the champ on both on concentrators and tanks
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  #18  
Old 2014-06-17, 11:01am
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If you're currently on a hothead, I think it'll be a long time before you're ready for a mirage. I'm not commenting on your talent, just the huge jump in torch heat. I'd suggest going with something more midrange for a while that you can run on concentrators (if you want to use them). A few years down the road you can sell and upgrade again. Torches hold their values pretty well. It sounds like you want a dual stage, so look at the Bethlehem Bravo, The GTT Phantom and the Carlisle Hellcat. The Hellcat would probably be the easiest transition from your hothead, as it has a less intense, bushy flame with a lot of radiant heat that is good for keeping sculpture or hollows warm. The other two torches have hotter, pinpointier (yes, I made that word up) centerfires. There are other torches in that same range. Check the oxygen needs of each. Some will be easier to run on concentrators than others. If you can find a used Bethlehem Barracuda, that's also a good option. I'd go for a 4-stud so you can use a foot pedal now or down the road. I use a Barracuda with 2 Regalia oxygen concentrators and can do anything I want with soft glass plus some not ridiculously huge boro (I've made marbles a couple of inches in size without a problem).
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  #19  
Old 2014-06-17, 12:35pm
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Morgan, thank you so much for your answer! I'm actually in Ukraine, so I can't stop by your studio

Yeah, it got on my nervs a bit that I can't get a GTT right away - have to wait for it for hell knows how long. I definetelly want to use concentrators, so your options are sounding pretty good. Maybe I'll go with the Champion after all... I wish I could try it out and see how it goes - there aren't many lampworkers here, and the ones that are here work on either hothead or a Minor.

Felicia, thanks for the iput i feel so loved here, everyone wants to help if they can. I'll look at the torches you suggested - I think now my mind is a lot more organizier( I make words up too) then it was when I created the thread.
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  #20  
Old 2014-06-17, 2:22pm
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I am able tp get decent fire power out of the champ using 3 m20's linked together which supply 30 liters of O2 at 20 psi per min. in discussions with Bethlehem to get the maximum you need to supply 40 literes 10 for the center fire and 30 for the outer fire per min at 20 psi. now keep in mind that same three m20 system could not keep up with the demand of my cheetah and it runs the champ at around 3/4 power which is still pretty hot here is a link to a vid I posted of the champ running on the three m20's. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...tal_comments=1
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Old 2014-06-17, 2:38pm
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Well, the Champion uses an alpha for the centerfire. I have an alpha and have been very happy with it! It depends on the type of work you do, as I would not say there is a lot of radiant heat compared to some other torches. But I don't know how running the outer fire would help with that. Have you see the videos?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWp9mFnt9K0 - running on concentrators


There is a special at one of the American distributors..http://www.artglasshouse.com/pc_prod...55C8D0794CA6C8

Good luck with your search
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  #22  
Old 2014-06-18, 6:56am
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Buy the largest torch you can afford. I have a Barracuda which I dearly love, but it is an oxygen hog. You can run in on two concentrators at around 80% of its capability. I now have a Mirage and it has everything from a small flame with the center fire to a fat flame for doing large boro work. I still use my Cuda because it can get a better pinpoint flame. It is really easy to outgrow a torch.
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  #23  
Old 2014-06-18, 9:21am
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did you just say that the mirage's pinpoint flame isn't as pinpoint as what can be had on a cuda?
have you tried just using the blue oxy only...with a small crack of the green? can get razor sharp like that.
i think you're the first person i've heard say they like beth's centerfire better!!
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Old 2014-06-18, 10:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istandalone24/7 View Post
did you just say that the mirage's pinpoint flame isn't as pinpoint as what can be had on a cuda?
have you tried just using the blue oxy only...with a small crack of the green? can get razor sharp like that.
i think you're the first person i've heard say they like beth's centerfire better!!
Thanks, I will try this! I admit I am not a used to my Mirage as the Cuda -- there is a bit of a learning curve. Lana
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Old 2014-06-18, 10:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istandalone24/7 View Post
did you just say that the mirage's pinpoint flame isn't as pinpoint as what can be had on a cuda?
have you tried just using the blue oxy only...with a small crack of the green? can get razor sharp like that.
i think you're the first person i've heard say they like beth's centerfire better!!
Here is a second person who likes Bethlehem's centerfire better!!!
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Old 2014-06-18, 12:29pm
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I have a Champion and I still have the Lynx hooked up beside it because I like it so much better than the Champion's center fire.
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Old 2014-06-18, 4:53pm
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have you tried running just the oxy from the outer fire to tighten up the champ inner fire?
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Old 2014-06-19, 12:57am
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the lynx have just more punch... but i like the alpha too it just depends what i am doing
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Old 2014-06-19, 3:54am
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have you tried running just the oxy from the outer fire to tighten up the champ inner fire?

I always have the outer fire cracked. Still no comparison.
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Old 2014-06-19, 12:21pm
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only worked on a lynx at one of the Gatherings, MY cheetah had a nice fine point but the 13 ports never could get that small without bad carbon build up even with the blue valve which I uses a lot, I thought a lot about getting a Mirage but I have trouble slinging the large tanks around so I opted to go for the more efficient Champ. compared to the Cheetah the Alpha center fire can go much much smaller. there is always a trade off I suppose, the triple mix tech is very cool but I noticed that even GTT seems to make their oxy conservative torches in a regular two valve set up based on the cricket. my wife has a Scorpion which is a fine little torch for the type of work she likes to do.
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