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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2009-02-18, 10:29am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2009
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 177
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Help with anealing..
Boy, I am full of questions today... I now have a couple on annealing. I am looking into purchasing a kiln, but I am not too keen on using a bead door. I hate the whole idea of putting my hand that close to the kiln when it is on (and yet I play with molten glass), so, as silly as this may seem, how do you batch anneal? I know that the beads go in cold, but can they be off the mandrel? And if so, then how do you lay them out? Do they just sit on the bottom of the kiln? That type of thing....
Thanks!
Joanne
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Joanne
Purple Sparkle Cricket w/ EX-15 8lpm Oxycon and tanked propane
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[size="3"]Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. - Dale Carnegie
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2009-02-18, 11:12am
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
Posts: 5,158
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When I batch anneal, I clean my beads first with a dremel tool. I put them into the kiln in a stainless steel loaf pan and ramp up the kiln to 950 or so, hold for an hour, ramp down to 600 for 30 minutes, then ramp down to 400 for 30 minutes.
I used to use a long flat pyrex dish instead of the loaf pan but after I cracked two of them, I decided to go with the stainless steel pan.
Hope this helps.
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2009-02-18, 11:45am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2009
Location: Alberta Canada
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rose - thanks for answering my question. May i ask a few more (i will assume yes )?
When you put th beads in the loaf pan, can they be touching? Can you put a whole loaf pan full of beads in? Oh, and what type of kiln do you have? Do you like it? Would you recommend it?
LOL, sorry for all the questions, it is a big purchase and I have wavered back and forth on what to buy.
Thanks,
Joanne
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Joanne
Purple Sparkle Cricket w/ EX-15 8lpm Oxycon and tanked propane
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2009-02-18, 2:12pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: Cincinnati
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Really, you'll be happier with a bead door in the long term. You can still batch anneal, when you want.
However, as you start to work larger (or more sculptural pieces) they have a much better survival rate if you garage as you go.
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Lynda
Cheetah, 5 lpm and 7lpm conc/generator (8-9 psi), natural gas (booster), started 11/06
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2009-02-18, 2:29pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 19, 2006
Location: FLORIDA
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Ditto what Lynda said about the bead door.
Encased beads usually have issues with cracking, even if put in a crock pot.
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"Every child is an artist...The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up" Picasso
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2009-02-18, 3:19pm
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I use a thin layer of fiber blanket on the bottom of the kiln and just put the beads on top of it. They can touch if you aren't ramping them high enough to melt. Just remember that kiln temps may or may not reflect the temp on the readout....mine runs about 40 degrees hotter than the guage shows. So I ramp to 920. FWIW.
Kay
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2009-02-18, 3:30pm
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Lampworkaholic!
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Join Date: Apr 22, 2008
Location: Cornelius, NC - because weather
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Yes, the beads can touch. They won't stick together under something like 1200-1400 degrees.
I have a Chili Pepper kiln. It's OK. It's a simple and reasonable starter kiln. I might get a firebrick kiln instead if I had to do it over, but I'm happy enough with it for now.
I have had very little cracking. When I batch anneal, I use a hot crockpot full of annealing bubbles to cool my beads. When they are cool I take them off the mandrels and clean them with my beadreamer. Then I anneal, then I clean them again with hard bristle pipecleaners.
Now and then I have a thermal crack along the mandrel line, ususally when I let a bead get too cool before I put it in the bubbles. And occasionally I have an incompatibility crack because I work with 3 Coes and white stringers all look alike - lol!
I rarely have an annealed bead spontaneusly crack at random, which I assume would indicate unrelieved stress within the bead.
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2009-02-18, 3:45pm
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Flaming Redhead!
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Join Date: Jul 18, 2006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrpleturtle
I am looking into purchasing a kiln, but I am not too keen on using a bead door. I hate the whole idea of putting my hand that close to the kiln when it is on...
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It really is so much easier on the glass, especially when you start working bigger, to garage as you go. As far as putting your hand too close to the kiln...I use long hemostats to grab my mandrel and then place the bead in the kiln. I doubt my hand is closer than 8" to the kiln when I do it that way.
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A thing of beauty is a joy forever: its loveliness increases; it will never pass into nothingness.
- John Keats
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2009-02-18, 3:53pm
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Life is change. Love it
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Join Date: Oct 10, 2005
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 5,566
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I just use a leather glove to put my beads into the kiln through the bead door. I've never got burned from my kiln.
I hate batch annealing, I had to do it after my relay broke. I lost about 25% of my beads, mostly the ones with dichro, what a PITA that was!
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cRlyn, cause Traci says so
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2009-02-18, 5:48pm
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Senior Member
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Another way to put your beads into the kiln is by using a long clamping forcep clamped to the mandrel.
Clamp on the end you hold with your hand, lay it inside the dead door and release the clamp. Close the bead door.
You should be pretty safe unless your bead surfaces are covered with silver or enamels. In that case do not let them touch other beads. I lay mine in from left to right and if I fill and need to pile I pile up the ones that have been garaged the longest.
Good luck
Joan
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2009-02-18, 6:48pm
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too many rods in the fire
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2008
Location: Elk Grove, CA
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Or you can buy an Ov-Glove - they sell them everywhere, Target, Walgreens, Rite Aid, etc. I like it because my hand doesn't get hot when I go to put the bead in the kiln. I have a BlueBird (similar to the Chili Pepper) and love it. It has two bead doors, which I really like. And knock on wood, it's been extremely reliable for me.
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Rene'
"Contentment is not the fulfillment of what you want, but the realization of how much you already have."
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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2009-02-18, 7:01pm
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Senior Member
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Oh folks, thanks so much for all the info!!! I didn't even think to wear a glove, and what a hell of an idea! Perhaps thats why they are so popular while doing baking, roasting and the like! What a twit i am!! LOL
Before i was a SAHM to two children i was an accountant. I once read that every time you get pregnant you lose 3% of you brain capacity. So, you will have to forgive me being a twit, but i am now down 8.5% :WINK:
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Joanne
Purple Sparkle Cricket w/ EX-15 8lpm Oxycon and tanked propane
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[size="3"]Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. - Dale Carnegie
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2009-02-18, 7:06pm
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Ready to hit the road
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Join Date: May 06, 2006
Location: Zimmerman, MN
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When I bought a kiln, I bought a top loading ceramic test kiln and made a rack that I lay the mandrels on as soon as I finish a bead. Then next day I take all the previous beads off the mandrels and thread them onto a single mandrel. When a layer is filled, I lay out another layer on the rack. When the layers are all filled with the full mandrels, I batch anneal. I very seldom lose a bead doing it this way. It's just very important to get the bead into the hot kiln as soon as it comes out of the flame.
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2009-02-18, 7:21pm
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Bigger, longer, and uncut
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Join Date: Aug 01, 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 447
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Joanne, how long are your mandrels? I use 12-inch-long mandrels which buy me some time as I lodge the mandrels ends in the rack in my kiln. My shorter mandrels sit gathering dust.
I used to batch anneal, but that was really frustrating because I had to wait too long from when I created a bead in the flame to when it could be considered "done." Now I make a bead and can count on having something useful the next day.
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Evelyn
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2009-02-18, 9:16pm
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I practice alchemy!
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Join Date: Dec 06, 2007
Location: Milton-Freewater, OR
Posts: 716
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I use a fairly high-quality welding glove when I stick my hand in the kiln. I discovered that the gloves for kitchen ovens weren't heavy enough to handle 1000 degree temperatures. I don't have a bead door and I think that should I ever have to replace my kiln that I'll get one with a bead door.
Celeste
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2009-02-18, 10:57pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 25, 2006
Location: Chicago suburb
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I use a small pair of ViseGrips.
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2009-02-18, 11:29pm
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a pox upon an idiot :..
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Join Date: Jul 01, 2005
Location: in the real world...
Posts: 1,298
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I have double beads doors with 9 inch mandrels and never had a problem just putting the beads on the rack that I keep on the right side of my kiln. When my rack is full, I use long hemo's to move the beads to the left side because by that time the mandrels are hot from being in the kiln.
You'll be much happier with a bead door, maybe there is someone near you where you can check it out before you buy a kiln.
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2009-02-19, 9:00pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 05, 2005
Location: California
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I use 9" mandrels and they fit inside my brick kiln with the door closed. I wear a leather glove to place them in the kiln and never have been burned. More important, the kiln automatically turns off when the door opens and comes back on when the door is closed. This is a Paragon kiln with a digital controller. If anything ever happened to it, I would buy the same model again.
I make beads from silver laden glass and encase with clear. They go into the kiln glowing hot. If I admire them too long, and they cool a bit too much before inserting, I get stress cracks. I can't imagine batch annealing these.
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Carol
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2009-02-19, 11:22pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2009
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 177
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Carol; may I ask which paragon kiln you have? The two that I am wavering between are both paragons the caldera and the firefly.
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to me!
Joanne
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Joanne
Purple Sparkle Cricket w/ EX-15 8lpm Oxycon and tanked propane
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[size="3"]Remember, today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. - Dale Carnegie
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2009-02-20, 7:09pm
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Corgi Cult Member
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Join Date: Jan 10, 2006
Location: Central Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrpleturtle
Oh folks, thanks so much for all the info!!! I didn't even think to wear a glove, and what a hell of an idea! Perhaps thats why they are so popular while doing baking, roasting and the like! What a twit i am!! LOL
Before i was a SAHM to two children i was an accountant. I once read that every time you get pregnant you lose 3% of you brain capacity. So, you will have to forgive me being a twit, but i am now down 8.5% :WINK:
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Hey, I was an accountant in my other life too. After being a SAHM for 17 yrs with 3 kids, my brain capacity is down about 60%. I feel lucky to even remember I once was an accountant! Still have my Coach briefcase tucked away in the closet, but I think it's covered up with quilting fabric.
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Kathy
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2009-02-20, 7:30pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 03, 2009
Location: Alberta Canada
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LOL.... i know what you are talking about Kathy! I too have a gorgeous black leather briefcase, somewhere.... I wonder if it could double as a diaper bag? Oh well, being a mom is much more rewarding right? (there is some sarcasm in that one )
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Joanne
Purple Sparkle Cricket w/ EX-15 8lpm Oxycon and tanked propane
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2009-02-21, 5:32am
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Lover of all things color
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Location: Lawrenceville, GA
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When I use to batch anneal I used a kiln brick that I sawed in half. Laid one half on each side of my fusing kiln and put the cleaned beads back on mandrels than sat on the kiln bricks. Prior to that I used a fiber blanke to just sit each bead on but I found that I was loosing any silvered or reduced colors where the beads were exposed. That turned out to be the oxygen in my kiln which was corrected by using a little bowl of activated charcoal in the kiln when I annealed.
Now I use a pair of kevlar gloves and put each bead in as I work. Opening that hot kiln to put the beads in is a bit of a circus act but it works. I have my first bead annealer on order and can't wait for it to get here. I don't have enough room in the fusing kiln and have to end up moving things as I go. (which isn't easy with the huge kevlar gloves on.
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GTT Lynx-M10 Oxy-con
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2009-02-21, 5:56am
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Yeah me!
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2008
Location: indianapolis indiana
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I have a top loading kiln... I hate it. Don't get me wrong, it works great but boy I wish I had a bead door! It is so handy once you start making large beads with other elements like silver or copper, to just be able to pop them in a pre-warmed kiln. With a top loading kiln it is just cumbersome. Right now I batch anneal, except when I do beads that need to go straight into the kiln and then it's a battle. If you can afford it get a kiln with both. If you do get a top loading kiln don't get one any smaller than 10" X 10" inside. Mines 8" X 8" and therein lies the problem!
When I batch anneal, I cool them in a fiber blanket...I know I know boo, fiber blanked bad! Then I remove them from the mandrel and place them into a cold kiln. I use shelf paper under mine but thats just me.
I ramp up slowly, over a course of a couple few hours, to around 960-980 degrees, hold for at least an hour. Turn the kiln down to about 840 or so let it sit there for a while and then turn the kiln off and let them cool slowly.
PS Does anyone know if I can have a bead door installed on my kiln? It's an Evenheat.
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Kristina
"...he who does not know and does not know that he does not know is a fool, avoid him." -Confucius
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2009-02-21, 9:43am
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Formerly FishBulb
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Join Date: Dec 05, 2008
Location: Pony Flower Princess Land
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At the member's studio where I go, they have a looooooong pair of needlenosed pliers that we can use to put the mandrels in the kiln. The whole tool is about 12 - 14 inches from end to end. This allows us to put the mandrels in the kiln, and move them around, without any discomfort.
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