Mandrels again and a bribe

gemsinbloom · #1 2010-09-06, 5:38am

I really really REALLY need help please. The person who solves this mandrel problem of mine will receive 2 ounces of Reichenbach multi dark frit and my gratitude for all of enternity. ha! I just don't have time to mess around with such stupid issues as mandrels.

I posted this a couple of weeks ago but the problem is still unsolved. Lately when I am creating beads on 1/16th mandrels , middle dipped, they are easily warping in the flame.

I have some sample mandrels being shipped to me from an American supplier but in the mean time I went and purchased some more steel rods. I talked to the welding supplier to explain the problem. He then sold me some 316L rods instead of the 308L. The american supplier I spoke to on the phone said the 316 would be more durable. I will be interested to see how his samples work for me.

Anyhow, I still have the same issue even though I upgraded the mandrels. What is going on???!!!

I am using my torch the same way and I have not changed the settings on my oxygen concentrator.

I just don't get it............

PerfectDeb · #2 2010-09-06, 5:52am

its no big secret

you just gotta remember that they are thinner and dont take as much heat - am i right in remembering that you were on a hothead up till recently?

just keep it moving, dont heat it till red hot.

did they used to work for you?

gemsinbloom · #3 2010-09-06, 6:13am

I switched to a dual fuel torch in January and I had no problems. I am working the same so it is a mystery. I am making mostly larger focals but if they did not cause me issues before , not sure why they are now.

Maybe I am working hotter and I don't realize it. BUT last night I made a couple of focals and I watched myself very carefully. I intentionally turned down the torch and the mandrel still buckled........

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectDeb

its no big secret

you just gotta remember that they are thinner and dont take as much heat - am i right in remembering that you were on a hothead up till recently?

just keep it moving, dont heat it till red hot.

did they used to work for you?

GlassGalore · #4 2010-09-06, 6:53am

I think it's because you're trying to make too large a bead for that size mandrel. You just recently started making those larger pressed focals, right? I think it's a combination of the extra weight in the larger mass of glass, combined with the extra heat that mass will hold, and the fact that you work the bead longer due to its size. The mandrel is weakening with the extended amount of heat, and the weight of the glass is then bending the mandrel.

That's my theory anyway.

SuzyQ · #5 2010-09-06, 7:10am

I'm with Lisa. I used to make 1 an 1/2 inch sleek pillow focals on 1/16th. But I found that I was struggling to get beads off rather often because the mandrel was slightly bent. Using my vice grips mandrels I had used even once or twice seemed to bend like tinfoil when trying to pry the bead off. I had been a 1/16th mandrel user for years! Switching over to 3/32's made all the difference.

Angie09 · #6 2010-09-06, 7:54am

I'd really love the Reichenbach ... never used it before so here's my TWO CENTS worth. I use "almost indestructible" mandrels (and I do boro alot) from Mike at Aura Lens. They last like no others I've ever had!!! Here's a link ... if you try them, you'll never use anything else. They;re a little more expensive but I rarely throw any away so it's well worth the extra money to me.

Here's the website: http://www.auralens.net/bs_mandrels.cfm

Hope this helps!

Angie

Art of Hand · #7 2010-09-06, 8:06am

I wish I could give you the words of wisdom you are looking for, but I guess it is just heat on the mandrel, focusing on what you are doing, and not mandrel placement in regards to the line of flame.

Alas, for now Reichenbach multi dark (and for that matter any other new glass out there) will stay a figment of my imagination, lol.

gemsinbloom · #8 2010-09-06, 8:19am

He is shipping me some sample mandrels to try. He said he uses the 316L which I was able to find after speaking to him. I was able to find the 316L after speaking to him in my town but the mandrels still warped. It will be interesting to see how his works though. Maybe they are still higher quality than those I get here even though they are coded as the same grade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angie09

I'd really love the Reichenbach ... never used it before so here's my TWO CENTS worth. I use "almost indestructible" mandrels (and I do boro alot) from Mike at Aura Lens. They last like no others I've ever had!!! Here's a link ... if you try them, you'll never use anything else. They;re a little more expensive but I rarely throw any away so it's well worth the extra money to me.

Here's the website: http://www.auralens.net/bs_mandrels.cfm

Hope this helps!

Angie

gemsinbloom · #9 2010-09-06, 8:21am

This is what crossed my mind this morning. Maybe I need to move up a size? Ugh, I do not like the larger holes. And yes I mostly make larger focals now. BUT.........I have been doing that since January and the mandrels were fine back then.

Will I be able to make the larger mandrels myself? I already find it a bit of a challenge cutting the 1/16th

Is the next size up the 3/32?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassGalore

I think it's because you're trying to make too large a bead for that size mandrel. You just recently started making those larger pressed focals, right? I think it's a combination of the extra weight in the larger mass of glass, combined with the extra heat that mass will hold, and the fact that you work the bead longer due to its size. The mandrel is weakening with the extended amount of heat, and the weight of the glass is then bending the mandrel.

That's my theory anyway.

gemsinbloom · #10 2010-09-06, 8:22am

digging around the studio to find some 3/32s.......ugh, I hate them lol

evvybuns · #11 2010-09-06, 8:28am

The next size up (which I use) is 5/64. I make the majority of my beads on 5/64 mandrels.

SteveWright · #12 2010-09-06, 8:38am

I use the 1/16" mandrels for earring size beads. I use 1/8th inch on large focals.

You need bolt cutters to cut the 3/32nd and larger mandrels. Harbor Freight has several to choose from. Make sure to get adjustable ones. Then use a grinder to touch up the ends.

Steve

alb6094 · #13 2010-09-06, 8:43am

Don't send me any freebies, I'm good.

I did want to add my .02 in case it helps.

I've done some large focals on 1/16 mandrels just because that's what I learned on and it never occured to me at the time to order bigger. I'm not a fan of the bigger holes either although I do have like a dozen 3/32 mandrels now. Yesterday I did a big hollow bead for the first time on a 1/16, I was psyched!

It's the concentration of heat in one place that is your problem would be my guess as someone else noted above. I work under the flame and occasionally over. I move away from the flame frequently to let the core cool somewhat. If you can keep what is next to the mandrel cooler and just let the radiant heat warm it as you work hotter around the outside your mandrels shouldn't bend. That's as close as I can get to describing what I do.

I would think if you are doing pulling/tugging and the core is repeatedly getting really hot you may have to move up in size. I finally broke down and got the 3/32 when I wanted to get really agressive with the glass, the 1/16 mandrels wouldn't put up with it.

HTH!

gemsinbloom · #14 2010-09-06, 8:47am

Thanks for all the input guys. I just realized I don't have the larger in 12 inch lengths so it will have to wait.

I am convinced I won't be able to cut the larger mandrels myself so maybe I will have to spend extra and purchase them precut.

I will update this when I get the samples in the mail.

I will go over the posts again once the problem is solved to see who post the answer first and wins frit!

gemsinbloom · #15 2010-09-06, 8:48am

Did it take you awhile to get use to using the 3/32?

Do you cut your own?

I guess I will have to put seed beads in the holes when creating the pendants so they don't wobble?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alb6094

Don't send me any freebies, I'm good.

I did want to add my .02 in case it helps.

I've done some large focals on 1/16 mandrels just because that's what I learned on and it never occured to me at the time to order bigger. I'm not a fan of the bigger holes either although I do have like a dozen 3/32 mandrels now. Yesterday I did a big hollow bead for the first time on a 1/16, I was psyched!

It's the concentration of heat in one place that is your problem would be my guess as someone else noted above. I work under the flame and occasionally over. I move away from the flame frequently to let the core cool somewhat. If you can keep what is next to the mandrel cooler and just let the radiant heat warm it as you work hotter around the outside your mandrels shouldn't bend. That's as close as I can get to describing what I do.

I would think if you are doing pulling/tugging and the core is repeatedly getting really hot you may have to move up in size. I finally broke down and got the 3/32 when I wanted to get really agressive with the glass, the 1/16 mandrels wouldn't put up with it.

HTH!

chrisdd · #16 2010-09-06, 12:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemsinbloom

Did it take you awhile to get use to using the 3/32?

Do you cut your own?

I guess I will have to put seed beads in the holes when creating the pendants so they don't wobble?

I cut my own 3/32" mandrels with a bolt cutter...it's dead easy. And I'm too lazy to grind down the ends and have just learned to be careful.

You can fill the hole with seed beads, or put a small spacer bead into each end of the hole. One that's too large to go all the way in, but big enough to go into the very edge. I also like using a bicone crystal for this.

gemsinbloom · #17 2010-09-06, 12:36pm

Thank you for the info!

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisdd

I cut my own 3/32" mandrels with a bolt cutter...it's dead easy. And I'm too lazy to grind down the ends and have just learned to be careful.

You can fill the hole with seed beads, or put a small spacer bead into each end of the hole. One that's too large to go all the way in, but big enough to go into the very edge. I also like using a bicone crystal for this.

PerfectDeb · #18 2010-09-06, 4:48pm

i cut my own as well - its easy with bolt cutter and i also dont bother to grind the ends. I fill then hole with a 3 or 4mm swarovski crystal - i only use 1/16 for small spacers

Deb Hopeful Journeys · #19 2010-09-06, 5:23pm

I use a grinder wheel to cut my mandrels. Bolt cutter is way to hard for me to do.

Like this one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-...der-94186.html

Jenn L'Rhe · #20 2010-09-06, 5:26pm

Someone here or WC suggested that torch heat and kiln slow cooling softened mandrels. I put mine in the cold kiln, ramp it up, pull them out and quench them in cold water to re-harden them. Then dip.

Are you doing this or just allowing the heat to keep softening them?

Kay

LAJ · #21 2010-09-06, 5:30pm

I think you've gotten some great advice so far. Sounds like you're on the right track. AFA the beads wobbling, I sell vinyl tubing in my etsy & AF shops that's great for keeping the beads from wobbling. Also great for lining seed bead designs such as bead crochet or spirals. Here are the links in case you're interested or PM me if you want/need different lengths.

http://www.lajewelrydesigns.artfire.com
http://www.lajewelrydesigns.etsy.com

Charmaine · #22 2010-09-06, 5:42pm

i kept killing my 1/16 mandrels too, and hated the 3/32 size. I now use exclusively 5/64 mandrels (which, if you can do fractions, is the size between 1/16 and 3/32). I get them in bulk from Sundance: http://www.sundanceglass.com/glass-bead-tools-r.htm

squid · #23 2010-09-06, 5:46pm

I would try using 5/64" mandrels instead - they are just a tad bigger, but enough to withstand the heat.

gemsinbloom · #24 2010-09-06, 6:11pm

I have one of those but I never really used it. I considered giving it away today. Maybe I should rethink? ack

Can you cut the 3/32 on that tool?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys

I use a grinder wheel to cut my mandrels. Bolt cutter is way to hard for me to do.

Like this one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/5-inch-...der-94186.html

gemsinbloom · #25 2010-09-06, 6:12pm

I am not doing this but to be honest, I don't really have the time to mess around like that but I appreciate the suggestion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenn L'Rhe

Someone here or WC suggested that torch heat and kiln slow cooling softened mandrels. I put mine in the cold kiln, ramp it up, pull them out and quench them in cold water to re-harden them. Then dip.

Are you doing this or just allowing the heat to keep softening them?

Kay

gemsinbloom · #26 2010-09-06, 6:13pm

Okay now we are getting somewhere! I would be willing to compromise between the two, thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charmaine

i kept killing my 1/16 mandrels too, and hated the 3/32 size. I now use exclusively 5/64 mandrels (which, if you can do fractions, is the size between 1/16 and 3/32). I get them in bulk from Sundance: http://www.sundanceglass.com/glass-bead-tools-r.htm

GlassGalore · #27 2010-09-06, 8:52pm

I agree about the 5/64ths being a great size. Not too big and not too small. And WAY less likely to bend from heat than the 1/16ths!

Reminds me... I should order some more!

alb6094 · #28 2010-09-06, 9:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemsinbloom

Did it take you awhile to get use to using the 3/32?

Do you cut your own?

I guess I will have to put seed beads in the holes when creating the pendants so they don't wobble?

It took me a few beads to get used to the 3/32, they're still not my mandrel of choice. I saw what someone wrote about the 5/64, I'll have to try those!

I don't cut my own, I'm just too lazy for that. Grinding, pheh.

You can use seed beads or I buy small SS beads from Monsterslayer and that works well too.

artwhim · #29 2010-09-06, 11:09pm

Since you make your beads middle of the mandrel, do you sometimes use both hands to spin as you are rounding up? If so, with a large bead there is already so much retained heat I would think your hands rotating at slightly different rates might be enough to give the mandrel a slight warp.

I, too, like small mandrels. The 5/64" are a nice compromise for larger beads.

Jenn L'Rhe · #30 2010-09-07, 4:43am

Tempering your mandrels doesn't take any extra time unless you use all of your dipped mandrels each torch session and your bead release doesn't flame dry well.

I put them in the kiln during regular ramp up, it's usually up to around 850 when I pull them out and quench them (when I turn on the concentrator for it's 15-20 min warm up). Dip them while I wait for the concentrator. Easy Peasy.