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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2010-09-06, 9:53pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 13
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Getting oxygen on the cheap
It seems a waste that I am surrounded by oxygen, yet I have to pay fortunes for tanks of oxygen. What alternatives are there?
I'm not sure if an oxygen concentrator will suit my needs. At most, I will be fritting and blowing 50mm x 5mm borosilicate tubing. What flow rate do I need, approximately?
Is there an easy way to collect enough oxygen overnight to use the next day? What do you guys use? Let's hear some creative solutions.
(Also, will propane and compressed air work? Or is that simply not hot enough? It seems to me that if, for example, 15 lpm of oxygen powers a torch, and air is 20% or so oxygen, then if you pump 75 lpm of compressed air, you'll get the same results.)
And compressed air is practically free to get.
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2010-09-07, 12:06am
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Harold Williams Cooney
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Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
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. . . . brain storming an impromptu 'creative solution' probably isn't gonna cut it and running your torch at 75lpm isn't gonna help either.
sorry.
Oxygen costs cash.
Making your own oxygen cost a lot of cash. At least in the short to medium term.
You work boro. And this makes it worse.
You want to keep 50x5 realistic. This makes it worse yet even more.
But, you are correct. There are viable solutions:
Ross at ABR can sell you a tank filler. Set ya back about 4 grand.
You could go with onsite. (everyone's favorite) Set ya back no less than 15,000.
you could go with an AirSep or similar concentrator like many, many soft glass people use. You would need two units . . . about two grand and you can kiss the 50x5 goodbye.
It's a tough issue. Everyone thinks about it.
If you search this forum or over at the melting pot you will find 100's of threads about oxygen, oxygen costs and oxygen generation/concentration.
If i was rich, I would go with OnSite.
If I was smart, I would talk to Ross.
But, I own a two man shop and a calculator and so I know to just stick to liquid cans. Cheapest option, especially in periods of time less than five years, by far.
Good luck. Love to know what you decide on.
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2010-09-07, 4:07am
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boro color bender
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2005
Location: The Oregon coast!
Posts: 10,039
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That filler Ross sells is getting mixed reviews at best... if it was viable, I'd have one... like h said... want to work 50x5? Get liquid... or an Onsite system... you can buy a LOT of liquid for that price tag... If you worked smaller, there are semi-affordable solutions... for bigger stuff, you've just gotta suck it up.
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2010-09-07, 5:53am
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Glassmangler
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Join Date: Oct 04, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 230
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Anything bigger than a Phantom on generators gets really expensive (OnSite, etc.)
I've got one of UO's new tank filler systems on order, I'll post a review after I've had it for awhile.
The flow rate you need is dependent on what your torch maker recommends, not what kind of tubing you're working on.
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2010-09-07, 6:11am
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Pyromaniac
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Join Date: Aug 12, 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 1,868
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As a one "man" shop myself, I have tried the liquid tanks and they are beyond fantastic as far as color and sheer volume. However, there are times when I have gaps in working and I have had so much trouble with tanks venting out that I am considering going back to the regular oxy tanks. It is just too much of a waste.
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Lana
Sexy Barracuda and Mirage
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2010-09-07, 7:11am
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Marbles, dude, Marbles
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2007
Location: Coral Springs, Florida
Posts: 653
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Ya gotta pay to play.
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A marble a day keeps the 'willies' away.
Gerald Kappel
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2010-09-07, 7:20am
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Borovangelist
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Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 3,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmkcpa
Ya gotta pay to play.
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'bout sums it up.
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-Tom
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2010-09-07, 7:42am
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He can do the origami
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Join Date: Nov 24, 2005
Location: Najin Oyate
Posts: 1,474
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It's a plot by the Man I tell ya!
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2010-09-28, 12:13pm
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Newbie. I still suck. :)
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Join Date: May 12, 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 115
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I use (3) of the M-15 Concentrators. 15psi, 24LPM in total. Its nice on a Red Max. I cant melt more than 44mm with any consistancy. its just not enough heat.
That's with THREE concentrators.........
1.) Liquid oxygen
2.) 7 or 8 M-15 generators, or a $15k generator that is meant for this as others suggested with links
3.) Tank filler, but make your own by using a M-15 / EX-15 and a compressor to fill the tank. There's tutorials on it, and it isnt worth $4000. All total should be like $800-$1000. However, it takes 20 hours to fill a K tank and its not as pure as true tanked oxygen, only like 95-98% ish.
I'm new to lampworking, only a few months in, so take what I say with a grain of salt and correct me if wrong =) =)
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2010-09-28, 4:03pm
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Glassmangler
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Join Date: Oct 04, 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 230
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At some point in the not-too-far-distant future, I'll have a complete Phantom/Marver/Footpedal/Two Generators for sale that runs the Phantom at 85-90% of full for $3K + shipping. That's about as cheap as you're going to go tankless...
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2010-09-28, 7:38pm
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Lampworker
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Join Date: Jul 06, 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 211
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i have an exo2 filling station and no they are not worth the 4k they sell for
the compressor motor had to be rebuilt once and the RIX screw compressor used to fill the tank has had to be sent back 2x in less than 1.5 years. taking 2-3 months each time. i guess the free repairs make it worth it but being without it costs $. when its working its a great alternative to tanks.
i run 2 huricanes Y together and they run 3 GTT centerfires. the outers run off tanks or the filling station. i have rebuild (basicly replacing the piston cup, easy) the compressors every 10-14 months. i just had the zeolite replaced in the sieve bed by UO after 2 years of heavy use. and its running great.
the filling station works great.....when its working. wish i could repair it myself but they are fixing it for free so... what will suck is when they wont after the 3y is up. it fills 55-60 # an hour. which gives me about 1k# a day if i work during biz hours and it fills each night (work 8 fill 16). if i dont work on weekend i can drain the 2000# on fridays and fill all weekend.
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2010-09-28, 7:41pm
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Kobuki & DIY Homefill Sys
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Join Date: Apr 30, 2009
Location: socal
Posts: 220
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there is always the homefill conversion tank fill system for the mechnically inclined for less than $2k.
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2010-10-01, 9:37am
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Newbie. I still suck. :)
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Join Date: May 12, 2010
Location: Earth
Posts: 115
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if there was a tutorial for a non-mechanic to make one of my EX-15's into an o2 K tank filler I'd be on it like white on rice!!
Or if someone sells a conversion kit, which would be much nicer........
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2010-10-03, 1:17am
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Formerly Fireflyartglass
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Join Date: Feb 18, 2006
Location: Canberra, the capital of Australia!
Posts: 791
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There is a guy here in australia who has a bunch of giant tanks that are meant for propane (they use them for trailers here) he then has an oxygen generator that fills them all and then his teaching studio draws off the pressure of all of them at once I think.
I may have not understood properly though.
I have used the torches there and it was just like using normal tanked oxy.....
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On a midrange/minor with bottled oxy!
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2010-10-03, 8:00am
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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The marble forum <thegldg.com> has a hugh bunch of info on several alternative systems to go off tanks.
PJ
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2015-03-11, 5:31am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Mar 11, 2015
Posts: 1
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Thenovice so you have 3 ex 15? I saw how it runs with just one on YouTube. But how does it melt? Do you think you would have any problems with the face of the torch heating up with only one running? I'm asking because I had a red rocket and i do golblets and rarely never use anything over 38x4mm tubing and would love to not have to keep spending so much on oxy. It's killing me.
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2015-03-11, 1:03pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 27, 2011
Location: Janesville Wi.
Posts: 136
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this post is from 2010 so i looked and
TheNovice
Newbie. I still suck.
Send Message User Lists Last Activity: 2011-06-23 5:21pm
so i don't know that you will get a answer from them.
read through this post talks about oxygen options.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=271507
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2015-03-12, 3:03am
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DaveK
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Join Date: Jul 03, 2013
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 301
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If you go with liquid, definitely shop around and haggle price. Getting your own trailer to haul it will pay for it's self winthin a year, if you have a trailer hitch on your vehicle.
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