TAG Fire Lotus tips

demcc2 · #1 2011-01-12, 3:49pm

A while ago a got a couple of rods of the Fire Lotus to play with. I was able to get all sorts of cool colors with it. I later purchased a whole pound of the stuff, worked it the same way I did before, and I don't get the time of day from the glass. Is it me or the batch?

Any suggestions/tips?

Duane

lysa · #2 2011-01-12, 4:51pm

I just played with a sample I had received last fall. I love it......at least the test sample. I was about to order......maybe I will wait to see some responses.

Perfect timing, Duane!

Nimbus · #3 2011-01-12, 5:38pm

Hi Duane

I think that you have brought up a very interesting point of discussion. I had been working with some TAG Dalai Lama, and loved the light pinks and blues that I was getting out of it. I ordered a pound more after it was gone because I loved it so much. The new batch gets a much darker red and blue out of it when worked the same way. No matter what I do I can't get the colors that I used to. I have just recently figured out how to get some bright magentas and blues from it that I like, so all is not lost.

But the question is... Is this the nature of the silver glasses? Will each batch give a different end result and need to be worked differently? At one time I read that the different stages of the strike in which the glass is pulled, causes you to have to work it a little differently. But it also stated that you could get the same results in the end. This idea doesn't seem to be in keeping with my experience with my new batch of Dalai Lama, or seemingly your experience with the Fire Lotus.

I will be very interested to see what other people have to say about their experience on this subject.

Jeannie

Elizabeth Beads · #4 2011-01-12, 5:47pm

If you contact Jenny at TAG, she will be able to help you or swap out the glass for you. I have two different batches of Fire Lotus, luckily both nice but different. I am waiting for some more and keeping my fingers crossed.

I think if you get a good batch, call the vendor who sold it to you and stock up (make sure to confirm it is the same batch).

To some degree it is the nature of silver glass, and even the same batch can vary from one end of the pull to the other. But at silver glass prices, if we get a batch that is very disappointing we should ask the manufacturer to replace it.

At this point I am leaning toward only buying directly from TAG and Double Helix. As tempting as some of the vendor sales are, I feel badly about asking a vendor to replace silver glass. They exactly can't check every rod. It is the glass maker who ultimately controls quality.

demcc2 · #5 2011-01-12, 7:25pm

I just sent a message off to Jenny. She's very good with responding and advice!

Duane

Otter's Flame · #6 2011-01-12, 7:52pm

I absolutely adore TAG's glass and for this very reason. For the most part, from batch to batch they are VERY stable and very consistent. Jenny is also amazing at giving advice and helping solve issues. TAG thoroughly tests their glass and makes sure they can reproduce it before flooding the market with a batch of amazing glass and then disappointing us after that.

I actually rudely put Jenny in a tough spot the first time I met her. I asked her why I should buy TAG glass over other manufacturers if all I was going to get was something I loved and then it wont ever be on the market again. She patiently explained their process, how they test the glass and how they stand behind their product. I have worked with her several times since and she has always been able to help me or help others I point in her direction.

I admit to being a TAG advocate but for good reason. I hope you get the issue solved Duane and if there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Sheila D. · #7 2011-01-12, 8:14pm

Could be the way you had your torch set just right that day....or the weather...or the glass gods.

Firebrand Beads · #8 2011-01-13, 12:38am

Actually, I find it as has much to do with the moon and/or how I hold my mouth, lol!
But based on some information in your private e-mail, Duane, I suspect there may have been more than the average variation in your batches? One of those vendors - your first? - has purchased a few Odd Lots of Fire Lotus that were a little bit different. The second vendor you mention has only had the regular stuff. So check your notes or invoices to see if she listed it as an Odd Lot.

That said....You are all correct, but Elizabeth the most right of the above, lol! If you find something you like you need to stock up on it a little or it might not be exactly the same later -- just like lipstick colors, dang it. The nature of silver glass is fascinating, enthralling, and absolutely maddening. Batch to batch, run of the color to run of the color, top of the pot to the bottom, we get slight variations, many of which we understand, lol. ESPECIALLY with the striking glasses. These variations can either be minor or major depending on a massive number of factors, including the way you use it versus how I use it. Or if Paul has an idea to tweak a recipe because he thinks he can make it better. I mean, we make lots of production colors but Paul does, at heart, run an R&D facility.

So, for example, Jeannie is right -- the Dalai Lama has changed. Yes, absolutely. Paul and I both thought the stronger color would be more popular, and it has been. If you loved the older versions of that color, though, call us and I will dig through boxes to see what I can find for you from one of those older runs. One of these days I will have the time to get all those little bits and pieces out here listed on the website so the last bits of the right batches and variations go to the right people. This is both the pleasure and the pain of R&D.

SO.... do try striking this newer batch in the hotter part of your flame? Or strike it more times? I tested so many batches of Fire Lotus that they all kinda blur together but there is a range of color that they all have to fall within to make the cut, particularly the redder colors. Duane, if you are able to call me in the office we can hash out what kind of colors you were getting then and what you're getting now and whether you'll want to swap out the rods or simply adjust your working style. This will be faster and more direct verbally. 503-656-9350, 9-ish - 5-ish Pacific time, lol...

And Otter, baby, if that's your rude.... bring it!

dragonart glass · #9 2011-01-13, 12:59am

Jenny you're so awesome!!!!

Reenie · #10 2011-01-13, 1:03am

I have Fire Lotus, Semi Fire Lotus and an Odd Fire Lotus. But having said that, I bought tons of the regular fire lotus and there were a few different dates on the batches so what I bought was the whole run and whatever else they had. That could be the problem. Duane, if you got it from me and you don't like it, go ahead and send it back. I've got alot here so I can also switch it out with another date.
It might be best for now on for me to put batch dates on the rods so that way we can make sure we send out the same stuff when requested

Firebrand Beads · #11 2011-01-13, 10:45am

Thanks, Reenie, I actually do think batch numbers are important on these striking colors. I do include the batch numbers whenever I ship, but then batches may be mixed together in a bin by your reseller. I am thinking Duane might have fallen in love with one of your Odd Lots, Reenie... you heartbreaker! LOL!

demcc2 · #12 2011-01-13, 11:19am

Hey, I can fall in love with the colors in Clarity, for cryin out loud!

Duane

BeadieEyedWoman · #13 2013-03-24, 8:08pm

I have tried all the tips....read how other people work this glass....I am so disappointed...can not get color out of this glass...another so called reactive glass that doesn't work....I have wasted so much money on these types of rods...not once have they worked!!! Double helix glass either....these silver and reactive glasses...are a waste of money for me!!

allicat · #14 2013-03-24, 8:16pm

Have you watched Dawn's Tag glass video demo? If not, you can find it here: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=240074

And are you on a dual torch? You probably are, but I find it best to ask just in case, as it's MUCH harder to get striking glass to strike with a single torch like a Hothead.

Alli

KJohn · #15 2013-03-24, 9:44pm

Much harder, although Alli manages to get something. I'm saving the rest of mine until I get on a dual. DH has some videos on their site as well. Good luck.

jellybellykelley · #16 2013-03-25, 4:55am

I recently had purchased some fire lotus and used Dawn's advice on her video. I got great color, but when the beads came out of the kiln all but one was cracked! I encased with Uro clear. The beads were small and cone shaped and the cracks were lengthwise. Any ideas?

purpledragonfly · #17 2013-03-25, 5:14am

I believe lengthwise cracks suggest that the bead was too cool when you put it in the kiln.

jamie lynne · #18 2013-03-25, 5:36am

I let it develop most of the color in the kiln. Going in it looks a little less exciting. None of the red tones have developed before they go in. I don't dink around with this glass. I get the bead made, and I put it in the kiln. The longer you work it, the duller it will become.

I prefer it over a core of opal yellow to get the magenta to come through. When I use Fire Lotus alone, the results are more blue and purple. I like the magenta.

Striking it (and getting the full range of color) on a Hothead will be near impossible.

Compatibility problems have been some what common with the new Uro clear. I'd eliminate that first.

queenofsheba52 · #19 2013-03-25, 7:31am

Hey Beadyeyedwoman

I'm on a dual fuel torch with tanked oxygen, but I use natural gas instead of propane. My flame is cooler than a propane flame and I have lots of trouble with any of the silver glass. I was fortunate enough to take Hayley's class -- on propane -- and got nice results. I am saving the rest of my silver glass until I can switch over to propane. S-o-o-o, maybe you might try working with a hotter but still neutral flame? Like Dawn's TAG YouTube video? Just a thought because I know the frustration of "spending" your costly glass and getting poo out off the kiln.

Best regards, Helene

GlassTorturer · #20 2013-03-25, 11:39am

Helene, since you bring up the issue of using natural gas, I'd like to throw in my question - I'm on a Mini CC with household NG and an M-15 Unlimited Oxygen oxycon, and have a heck of a time getting good color! It's usually a brown band all around the middle of the bead with only a bit of color on the sides. I give up and put it away, then bring it out again much later thinking I'll have mastered it, only to waste more glass. I even took a wonderful class with Jenny using the different TAG rods, but when I came home - nada! I know it's me or my set up and not the glass, but it's still so frustrating!!

Judy

queenofsheba52 · #21 2013-03-25, 3:54pm

Hi Judy, I think the NG has a lot to do with our less than stellar success with silver glass. Ever snce I had good results in Hayley's class using propane, I know that I should be getting better results here at home too. Also, I followed Dawn's wonderful TAG video to the letter -- and got browns just like you do. Repeatedly. Of course I am not claiming to be the world's expert LOL. Any other NG users out there who want to chime in?

Best regards, Helene

Dragonharper · #22 2013-03-26, 3:57am

NG burns a lot cleaner than propane, so it is harder to tell when your flame is reducing. Watch for the outer flame to become a "denser" blue as you add oxy, when it is at it densest you are at a netral flame, at this point adding oxy will make your flame oxidizing, removing oxy will make it reducing. It has been my experience that it is better to error on the side of an oxidizing flame when trying to preserve colors.

GlassTorturer · #23 2013-03-26, 5:17pm

Thanks, Roy! I'll check my flame with that tomorrow and post my results. It also just dawned on me to call Carlisle Machinery who made the torch to see if it's my NG that's the problem or most likely moi!

Judy

Sheila D. · #24 2013-03-26, 8:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie lynne

I let it develop most of the color in the kiln. Going in it looks a little less exciting. None of the red tones have developed before they go in. I don't dink around with this glass. I get the bead made, and I put it in the kiln. The longer you work it, the duller it will become.

I prefer it over a core of opal yellow to get the magenta to come through. When I use Fire Lotus alone, the results are more blue and purple. I like the magenta.

Striking it (and getting the full range of color) on a Hothead will be near impossible.

Compatibility problems have been some what common with the new Uro clear. I'd eliminate that first.

Fire Lotus also works well for me on Opal Yellow. The intense magenta/purples come in the kiln. This glass likes to get really hot, let cool and just heat little (strike) to bring out the colors. Then pop it in the kiln.

BeadieEyedWoman · #25 2013-06-01, 9:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by queenofsheba52

Hey Beadyeyedwoman

I'm on a dual fuel torch with tanked oxygen, but I use natural gas instead of propane. My flame is cooler than a propane flame and I have lots of trouble with any of the silver glass. I was fortunate enough to take Hayley's class -- on propane -- and got nice results. I am saving the rest of my silver glass until I can switch over to propane. S-o-o-o, maybe you might try working with a hotter but still neutral flame? Like Dawn's TAG YouTube video? Just a thought because I know the frustration of "spending" your costly glass and getting poo out off the kiln.

Best regards, Helene

Tracy Bell came over and showed me some pointers....I think maybe I can get some colors now...any pointers on fire lotus..I have 2 pounds of that..ty all so much...yes I was so frustreated...been tryine for years to make them work..ty all again