GTT - Very disappointed

MBeadDesigns · #1 2009-03-17, 1:57pm

I have been corresponding with GTT as my bobcat torch that has had around 2 years limited use is throwing black soot over everything.

I had read on this forum that servicing was free, so i finally have been able to isolate the gas source from my bobcat ( i have a mini cc set up in series with this torch and it works perfectly) and i had removed the base to reduce postage costs and now i email them to send it back and they tell me they now charge $50 !!!! to service a torch.

So with the $25 it was going to cost me to send it to the USA...the $50 for servicing and the $25+ to send the bobcat back to me(that really hasn't had a lot of use) It is now going to get thrown in the garbage.

I understand that a fee is not unreasonable but $50 !!! come on ?!?!

Very dissappointed GTT i thought you would stand behind your product a bit better than that.

Monica

flameonglass · #2 2009-03-17, 2:22pm

That sucks.
I loved my Bobcat but found it way too high maintenance. It plugged up constantly.
I sold it after I bought a Mini CC which I have been running for years with no problems at all.

MBeadDesigns · #3 2009-03-17, 2:28pm

I agree with the Bobcat being high maintenance... i always had to clean it a couple of times in a beading session...however i like the finer flame. I am now getting use to the Mini CC and have worked out (out a matter of necessity) how to get the finer flame for stringer work. The longer the Bobcat sits there out of commission the more i can live without it. I am just really annoyed that i had my Dad go and buy things to cut off the gas supply..took the effort to dismantle etc...and now when i say i am going to send it they tell me they now charge $50. to add to this....$50USD is now $80 AUD because of our exchange rate falling. SO.....If i was to get the bobcat serviced (door to door) it would cost me $160AUD at best !!!!!

Rebekah · #4 2009-03-17, 3:22pm

I didn't know that they started charging for servicing. Did you email them about that? I can understand them not paying for shipping but if you bought the torch with the understanding that it was serviced for life (the way they have always been), I might be a bit upset. Willy and Wally make excellent torches and I'm sure they'd like to hear from you.

I always think of torches in terms of cars because I am a lame assed dork. To me, any GTT product is like a Ferrari. It never loses its value, it's sexy, and it can be a little high maintenance but if you REALLY know how to operate it, it will make your bottom jiggly every time you get behind the wheel.

MBeadDesigns · #5 2009-03-17, 3:35pm

Maybe someone from GTT will comment.

hagstromartglass · #6 2009-03-17, 5:46pm

what kind of gas do you use...maybe you got some dirty propain....just a thought

castaway · #7 2009-03-17, 6:55pm

Monica I run a Lynx and a Cheetah and have never had any problems( I work them hard) I have heard of people having this problem with the Bobcat, The new cricket by the way doesn't seem to get sooted up, dirty lpg is the usual cause. pity you cant get it working as a focused flame is far better than the wide splayed flame of the minicc, having it serviced will not solve any problems, the fault is in the fuel not the mechanics of the torch, try running a lot more oxy when you are working and run the torch higher and see what happens. cheers, Bernard

Ms.Giggles · #8 2009-03-17, 7:11pm

I don't know about GTT's policies but I think it is reasonable to charge a fee to service something that is past a warranty. Most tools only come with a 1 year warranty. Though I do feel feel your pain about the shipping and then the cost of the repair fee as I am in Canada and the cost of shipping here is about the same price that you would pay. Did you check with them to see if they have a repair person in Australia?

MBeadDesigns · #9 2009-03-17, 7:27pm

I have gone through every option until i was left with the one to send it back to them. All other variables have been eliminated.

As i mentioned i have a Mini CC set up on the SAME gas sources. It is working with out a problem.

The problem is NOT the fuel.

My fiance is an intrument fitter and specialises in Gas instrumentation. The Bobcat is not easily cleaned because of the way it is assembled. I didn't let him at the torch because i didn't want to void any chance of GTT looking at it by him pulling it apart. I will now be letting him go for his life with it because it is useless otherwise.

In the numerous emails to GTT i even asked what they were going to do to clean it...surely it was worth me giving it ago here in Australia but they only told me how to clean it after each use.

I had always been under the impression that GTT gave FREE lifetime servicing. No limited warranty period.

I won't be purchasing another GTT torch for obvious reasons.

Thanks for the replies guy... i am just really frustrated as it is a waste of what was a good torch.

Mon
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Chuckie · #10 2009-03-17, 8:56pm

My bobcat has never worked properly. I guess I should have sent it in long ago to have them replace the teflon seal. I've been considering buying a different torch for a long time. Maybe instead of paying $50 I should just invest that in another torch.

rita · #11 2009-03-17, 9:52pm

For what its worth I have had my Bobcat for over three years with no problems. I have never even cleaned it.
Rita

Julabula · #12 2009-03-18, 11:19am

For what it's worth, I definitely had this problem with my Bobcat. I did send it in for free years ago and had them professionally clean it out. I also had a dual torch setup at the time, a minor and a bobcat and never had issues with the minor. I bought a Pirahna, and sold my Bobcat because it was too high maintenance. I just bought a 'Cuda, and have to decide whether to sell my minor or my Pirahna now. The minor is about 2 1/2 years old, but barely used, LOL.

ruca · #13 2009-03-18, 12:17pm

monica - if i were you i'd just sell the torch in the garage sale, stating it needs to be cleaned by gtt which costs $50.

sell it for like $75 plus shipping, you'll get something for it, someone will get a good deal because sending it to gtt to be cleaned will still be cheaper than buying a brand new torch. its better than getting nothing for it & throwing it in the garbage, right?

whatever ends up happening, i hope everything works out.
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lunamoonshadow · #14 2009-03-18, 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruca
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monica - if i were you i'd just sell the torch in the garage sale, stating it needs to be cleaned by gtt which costs $50.

sell it for like $75 plus shipping, you'll get something for it, someone will get a good deal because sending it to gtt to be cleaned will still be cheaper than buying a brand new torch. its better than getting nothing for it & throwing it in the garbage, right?

whatever ends up happening, i hope everything works out.
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What Jes said. I'd also bet that someone looking for a slightly larger torch who doesn't mind sending it out (and dealing with a potentially fussy torch) will be thrilled to bits to take it off your hands--even knowing it needs a cleaning & the cleaning/repair cost.

Heck, for a reasonable price, you're apt to even find someone who wants to use it for a hood ornament on their car
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(there's some die-hard flame lovers here you know!)--anything is better than just scrapping it--might as well turn it into either cash towards another torch, or cash for glass, right?
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ArtcoInc · #15 2009-03-18, 1:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoonshadow
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Heck, for a reasonable price, you're apt to even find someone who wants to use it for a hood ornament on their car
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(there's some die-hard flame lovers here you know!)

My hood ornament is bigger and hotter than YOUR hood ornament!
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Malcolm

MBeadDesigns · #16 2009-03-18, 2:55pm

I was hoping that GTT would reply to my email i sent them over night....but i have nothing !

I will get a quote for shipping the whole unit to USA. Thanks Ruca, Lunamoon & Malcolm.

I think you guys have the right idea, i just didn't think anyone would be interested in a dirty torch....however... if it is someone in the USA that can get it to GTT cheaply then i suppose that could work...or knows the "top secret" way on how to clean them
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I will list it on the weekend (if anyone of you three are interested please PM me)

Mon

rusticstudio · #17 2009-03-18, 3:02pm

Did you use the cleaning wires that come with the torch?
Also, what is your propane set at? I have a Lynx and I find that if the propane is up too high, I get soot on the torch head. I set my propane at about 1-2 if I'm using soft glass.

MBeadDesigns · #18 2009-03-18, 3:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusticstudio
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Did you use the cleaning wires that come with the torch?
Also, what is your propane set at? I have a Lynx and I find that if the propane is up too high, I get soot on the torch head. I set my propane at about 1-2 if I'm using soft glass.

I have cleaned this torch with the proper wires before , during and after every use. I used it for 2 years without any (major) issues (ie they are high maintenance !!!). The torch then hasn't been used for 3 years. My local Gas supplier believes all it needs is a decent clean....which i can't do because i am assuming it needs to be soak in either an acidic or alkali solution. The way the bobcat is assembled means you can't pull it apart to investigate what the problem could be. There is nothing wrong with my gas pressures or gas sources....the torch is just dirty. The Gas supplier i use has a very feasible theory...eg there is more than likely a build up in the torch that would have stayed sticky while the torch was getting regular use...now the torch has sat on the shelf for 3 years the build up has become unstable and is burning off when i try to use it. I have blasted pure oxygen through the torch cleaned dozens of times and still NO improvement. I believe from what is happening that there is something in the torch but you can't get to it with simple cleaning wires !!!

Any suggestions on something i could soak the torch in from someone that knows what they are doing would be greatly appreciated.

I had stopped researching when GTT said they would clean it for me...now i will give it another 24 hours of researching and after that i will let this whole thing go !!! lol
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Mon

MBeadDesigns · #19 2009-03-18, 4:10pm

Because of the "no response" from GTT i have just forwarded them the link to this thread. Hopefully i will get some kind of comment now.

Mon

Artistic License · #20 2009-03-19, 8:44am

I see I"m not the only one who's a bit disappointed about the $50 charge. I phoned GTT last week about sending in my Lynx torch to be cleaned out and I was told by Wally himself that they are now charging $50 plus shipping to do the job. I have a Mid range with minor on top cleaned and such by Nortel about 6 months ago and I even paid to have the minor on top switched to a mega minor and I paid less for that double torch with the modification done for less than what it's costing me to have the stinking Lynx cleaned. But such is life I guess.

kbinkster · #21 2009-03-19, 9:27am

*Original post removed by author*

I'm sorry, but I am no longer providing free customer service for GTT, nor am I doing any more favors for them or defending them or their reputation.

Wally will not acknowledge that I have been of any help. Oddly, he says that I should be providing customer service for free and without any compensation or thanks because I am Willy's wife. Of course, neither of the two girlfriends he has had that worked for GTT have ever worked for free. Oh, he made a rule about no GFs or wives working at GTT in order to keep me out of the company. His rules did not apply to anyone he bedded down.

Please direct your questions to:

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570-835-9777

Hels · #22 2009-03-19, 9:43am

Thanks Kimberly, I love GTT torches, but have never seen the 'proper' running and cleaning process. Just having this information available easily (maybe on GTT's site?) would save a lot of grumbling and complaint, leading to more sales?

From your note, it seems that there is a possibility of cooking out carbon deposits. I have uneven flame lengths on my Phantom's outer ring (not that bad), but just can't spare my torch long enough for a cleaning, despite that Wally suggested on the phone months ago to send it back for a free cleaning. Guess I missed out on the free part... but I'd rather clean it myself if there's a way to do it.

I'd also like to know how to prevent/reduce future carbon gumming, as no owner of a GTT I've ever spoken to knows the secret either, unless it's to use the little cleaning wires, which no matter how thoroughly used bring even candle lengths back. I have heard that one should run it with longer than 1/2" candles, do not run it reducing for long, etc. None of these are bringing back my daily cleaned outer ring even flame lengths. HOWEVER... something I did brought back the even lengths in my centerfire, which was uneven when it was purchased. Beats me what I did tho, to repeat it on the outer.

I'm so interested in this, I'm going to track this thread so I don't miss it (I don't even track my own swap threads)! I bet this saves everyone at GTT a bunch of phone call whining! Thanks for the info ahead of time!!!

kbinkster · #23 2009-03-19, 9:53am

*Original post removed by author*

I'm sorry, but I am no longer providing free customer service for GTT, nor am I doing any more favors for them or defending them or their reputation.

Wally will not acknowledge that I have been of any help. Oddly, he says that I should be providing customer service for free and without any compensation or thanks because I am Willy's wife. Of course, neither of the two girlfriends he has had that worked for GTT have ever worked for free. Oh, he made a rule about no GFs or wives working at GTT in order to keep me out of the company. His rules did not apply to anyone he bedded down.

Please direct your questions to:

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570-835-9777

Melodie · #24 2009-03-19, 1:12pm

I really don't know anything about the Bobcat, I've only had one torch and that is the Lynx. But ... isn't there something in the instructions about also using a needle to clean the little half moon sections? I could be wrong since I don't have my cleaning instructions any longer, my torch is 8 yrs old and my memory isn't what it used to be.
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Maybe one of the guys told me that over the phone instead of being in the instructions. Please correct me if I'm wrong Kimberly, I don't want to give out bad info.

Personally, I never even knew they previously had a policy to clean a torch for free but I don't have a problem paying the $50 to have it done. In my case, that averages $6.25/yr for maintenance. Seems like a reasonable fee to service a torch that is a few years old. I'm pretty sure the cleaning is done quite thoroughly, don't they also check over the whole torch to make sure everything is working properly and not worn out, including the hoses? I'm sure that takes time to do and I don't think it's very fair to expect them to work for nothing, who likes to go to work and not get paid for the time they put in? Not me. But ... rather than charging a flat fee maybe they could look at cleaning rates according to which torch they are cleaning. I'm sure it doesn't take as long to clean a Bobcat as it does to clean a Python.

I haven't had an issue with carbon since my first year of using the torch. Guess I must have settled in on what worked for my particular torch. I can't even remember the last time I saw a speck of carbon on the face of my torch. Then again, I have the Lynx ... not the Bobcat. Mine really needs to go in but that's because my hoses need changing, not because my torch isn't running properly. Poor thing is 8 yrs old after all and he (yeah ... I decided mine is a boy, not a girl) did good just to survive that first year with me learning how to torch with no lessons or previous torch experience.
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He deserves a day at the GTT spa getting pampered.
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I really feel bad that you are having problems, hopefully someone in the Garage will buy it from you, but I don't think shipping should even be an issue. No matter what torch you have if you send it in you have to pay shipping both ways. It is unfortunate that you live so far away that the shipping cost are soooo outrageous (and $50 IS outrageous!) but that is not GTT's fault. If your mini CC needs repair you will have to pay the shipping both ways also and since it is out of it's warrenty period you would be paying for repairs or cleaning as well.

kbinkster · #25 2009-03-19, 2:46pm

*Original post removed by author*

I'm sorry, but I am no longer providing free customer service for GTT, nor am I doing any more favors for them or defending them or their reputation.

Wally will not acknowledge that I have been of any help. Oddly, he says that I should be providing customer service for free and without any compensation or thanks because I am Willy's wife. Of course, neither of the two girlfriends he has had that worked for GTT have ever worked for free. Oh, he made a rule about no GFs or wives working at GTT in order to keep me out of the company. His rules did not apply to anyone he bedded down.

Please direct your questions to:

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570-835-9777

MBeadDesigns · #26 2009-03-19, 4:57pm

Just so you all know... I purchased my torch from a well known glass distributor and I did not receive cleaning instruction AT ALL or anything to clean the torch with.

I have been running the torch on the recommended PSI/LPM for Oxygen and Gas. I work hot so the blue flames have always been at the very least the recommended 3/8"

All i want out of this post is cleaning instructions so i don't have to spend $160AUD to get my torch cleaned. It is really simple.

GTT has to realise they sell their torches globally and it is not feasible for everyone to send them back to the USA. Surely they can give out instructions on how to thoroughly clean the torches. Eg... can they been soaked in a cleaning solution ?????

I have also received numerous PM's from a number of people saying they have had the same sooting problems...obviously people that weren't game to publicly voice their concerns.

Now...if cleaning is such a problem with these torches as it appears to be, what Helen suggested would be common sense, why wouldn't GTT make it extremely clear how to keep their torches in good running order and what is the best way to run them. Clearly cleaning the ports isn't enough because that is what i have done religiously .

Instead of everyone playing a guessing game on how to run "them properly" and clean these torches can GTT please publish what is required. Then at least their customers will know if they are doing something wrong and what is GTT's obligation to fix, if any !?!...and then the title of "high maintenance bobcats" might be able to be dropped.

And just for the record guys i had NO PROBLEM paying for shipping...that was a given. I was ready to ship on Monday...that's when they told me they now charge $50 for cleaning.

I did have a problem with the fact i had asked how to clean the torch properly and wasn't given a proper answer. I then had a problem in being charged $50 for what was a couple of days earlier....a free service.

So my questions to GTT are...

1. What does running a Bobcat correctly mean ?
2. How do your Bobcat customers do their own annual clean on their torches ?

Thank you

Monica

nagibeads · #27 2009-03-19, 5:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBeadDesigns
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Just so you all know... I purchased my torch from a well known glass distributor and I did not receive cleaning instruction AT ALL or anything to clean the torch with.

Hi Monica-
There must have been some mixup with the distributor...all the GTT torches I bought through GTT or an authorized dealer came with simple instructions and the cleaning wires.
If you would like a copy of this paper I can send it to you. The wire is just a simple stainless steel wire that will fit into the holes.
GTT also offers a video that shows you how to clean and work the flames of their torches. It also has some cool tutorials on lampworking--it's very nice!

My Bobcat is currently on loan to a friend, but it has happily been in use for the past 4.5 years with only the occasional wire cleaning. When I first bought it, it did soot, but after 2 weeks, it cleared up. I don't know if it was my inexperience running a torch(it was my first one!) but now I run it more heavily on the oxygen and it works like a dream. I loved my Bobcat so much I was inspired to continue buying GTT torches.

I'm sorry you are not happy with your torch....wish someone in Australia who has a GTT could look at it and trouble shoot it for you. If I lived closer, I would
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In fact, if you would like, mail it to me and I will look at it to see what I can do.

And I do think it's fair to charge for service--if you bought a camera or a TV and needed it serviced, you have to pay a fee. Especially with the economy the way it is, and GTT being a small, family-run business, it's not fair for them to eat that cost. They were so very generous to offer it for free before, but if it is hurting their business, I'd rather they added a fee than try to make up the cost somewhere else.

joebirder · #28 2009-03-19, 6:00pm

I think it is sad that a lot of people bought torchs and it is plainly talked about all over the place that they clean them for free..
Now you have people like me who Spent 1875.00+ for a torch and thought that there would be a free cleaning..
Weather someone bought a 139.00 torch or a 3500.00 torch, if that was what was understood, they should at least give everyone one free cleaning.
If you go over that then maybe a charge...
I will think twice next time I buy a torch.
I love my torch, and it works well, But I don't think you should (as a Business) change something that drastic that effects all owners for the few who abuse..
JMHO
Joe

PaulaD · #29 2009-03-19, 6:19pm

Thanks for all of that information Kimberly!
Monica all of my GTT torches (3 Bobcats, a Cheetah, a Lynx, a Phantom, and a Mirage) had a paper on the inside (sealed in the box) with how to run the torch and how to clean it. The cleaning wire was taped to the paper. Maybe the customs people opned the box and removed it because the cleaning wire is a sharp object??.
I don't know anything about GTT's business but it seems to me that as a smaller business they probably were able to do free cleanings. But there comes a point in the growth cycle that with so many torches out there they would have to pay a person full time to do it and then the torch price would go up. So I do understand this practice and the situation they are in. I don't think any other torch manufacturer's do free cleanings either. I haven't heard of any anyway. I guess I don't really have a point except that if I personally really like the GTT torches and would pay $50.00 to have one cleaned! ( I also like the Mini CC's too.) Now-a- days with small companies strugglling just to stay in existence itis not unrealistic for one to change a long standing policy. Just today at work we were told that instead of 16 different kinds of coffee pods available for the coffee machine we now have just 4...Isn't that sad!!??

Paula

Imaglassgal · #30 2009-03-19, 6:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaD
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Just today at work we were told that instead of 16 different kinds of coffee pods available for the coffee machine we now have just 4...Isn't that sad!!??

Paula

Oh, Paula (Sobs) that's tragic!
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BTW, GTT rocks!

Marina