Alpha or bobcat? - Page 2

smpalmer85 · #31 2013-11-08, 12:43pm

Just wanted to say thank you to Hailey and Echo. I emailed Bethlehem the other day and they replied back essentially saying "our early generation of bravo's had a faulty centerfire that didnt consider flame chemistry during production - send it back to us and we'll repair it for you free of charge."

I'm excited. I was a little frustrated having spent a lot of dollars on silver glass and just not seeing the vibrant results that I would get in classes. Good to know it may not all be my skill set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

Alphas are much more oxygen friendly than Bobcats. They are made to be used with oxy cons. I tested the Alpha (center flame of the Bravo) and a Bobcat. On a M15, the Alpha is much hotter. Also the non triple mix GTT torches get carbon build up frequently especially running on oxy cons. Moreover, the flame is a little wider on the Alpha making it better on larger work.

The first generation of the Alphas had issues on not producing a completely neutral flame. Bethlehem had since fixed that problem. If you have trouble with reducing silver glass, contact Bethlehem.

A Lynx can only be truly efficient on two larger (8 lpm) oxycons such as m15 or ex15.

Hope this helps.

Celestial B · #32 2013-11-08, 6:27pm

Eeep! Just looked at Bethlehem site. They have just recently increased the prices of the Alpha and Bravo. http://www.bethlehemburners.com/news...g#.Un2PCyd1k40 Buy quick while the stores have the old priced stock.

Cloud5X · #33 2013-11-10, 10:00pm

My Alpha arrived last week, and I installed it in my studio over the weekend! I am very happy with it, it runs nice on my one oxycon, getting a nice neutral flame. It will melt up to 7mm boro rod easily, 9mm is a little slower and I haven't tried anything bigger yet! It takes around 90 minutes to make a simple 3/4" marble, which I can deal with for a while but I do look forward to getting a second oxy so I can work bigger pieces!

Just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread!

KJohn · #34 2013-11-10, 10:38pm

Glad you found something! Feel free to post some pics of what you're working on.

Dasi · #35 2013-11-11, 6:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayley

Alphas are much more oxygen friendly than Bobcats. They are made to be used with oxy cons. I tested the Alpha (center flame of the Bravo) and a Bobcat. On a M15, the Alpha is much hotter. Also the non triple mix GTT torches get carbon build up frequently especially running on oxy cons. Moreover, the flame is a little wider on the Alpha making it better on larger work.

The first generation of the Alphas had issues on not producing a completely neutral flame. Bethlehem had since fixed that problem. If you have trouble with reducing silver glass, contact Bethlehem.

A Lynx can only be truly efficient on two larger (8 lpm) oxycons such as m15 or ex15.

Hope this helps.

I agree. I just moved a student of mine into the Alpha from a minor. She is so happy. Artglass House had a great price on it too. I run a GTT everyday in my studio so I do love GTT but I believe the Alpha is a better choice then the bobcat. I have used both. The Alpha uses less O2.

Cosmo · #36 2013-11-11, 8:13am

I haven't tried the Alpha, so I can't comment on that. But I have tried a lot of the Bethlehem torches (and owned a few). I wouldn't recommend them. You get almost as much heat from them as you do from a Bic lighter.

And is Bethlehem still doing that dumb thing where they sell the bases to their torches separately? I never could figure out what was going on with that, aside from padding their bottom line.

For the money, you can't beat a GTT.

Hayley · #37 2013-11-11, 10:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by smpalmer85

Just wanted to say thank you to Hayley and Echo. I emailed Bethlehem the other day and they replied back essentially saying "our early generation of bravo's had a faulty centerfire that didn't consider flame chemistry during production - send it back to us and we'll repair it for you free of charge."

That's great!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud5X

My Alpha arrived last week, and I installed it in my studio over the weekend! I am very happy with it, it runs nice on my one oxycon, getting a nice neutral flame. It will melt up to 7mm boro rod easily, 9mm is a little slower and I haven't tried anything bigger yet! It takes around 90 minutes to make a simple 3/4" marble, which I can deal with for a while but I do look forward to getting a second oxy so I can work bigger pieces!

Just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread!

Thrilled that it works out for you. Yes, another concentrator will make a huge difference!

uncle louie · #38 2013-11-11, 6:35pm

I also have an alpha on an m-15 and regularly make 3/4 to 1" marbles in about have of that time including prep work.

korupt · #39 2013-11-12, 12:33am

I'm at the same cross roads but I'm leaning towards the bravo as I understand that it can get a slight bit hotter.

I plan on running tanked in the begging and then when I can afford it I'll buy some oxy cons and switch to a triple mix torch.

Any reason to pick Alpha if planing to run tanked oxygen?

Best regards
k

marcel · #40 2013-11-12, 2:05am

I have a bravo and run the centre fire on 2 5lpm oxycons and the outer ring
on tanked oxy

works fine for me!
it all depends on what you want to do!
i also have a GTT Mirage if i want to do bigger marbles or sculptures!
why waist so much oxy if you don't need it! well that is my opinion

GlassAlias · #41 2013-11-12, 3:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloud5X

I could, but with shipping and import duties/tax it will still bump the price up to around $1200!

$400 dollars extra to buy a Bravo from outside your country? That seems extremely ridiculous.

Cloud5X · #42 2013-11-12, 6:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassAlias

$400 dollars extra to buy a Bravo from outside your country? That seems extremely ridiculous.

Yep, tell me about it! Welcome to the world outside of America! At today's exchange rate I paid $370 for my alpha from the only supplier of Bethlehem torches in the uk

giraffetech · #43 2013-12-08, 6:45pm

i have used like every torch, (thats an exaggeration im stilling wating to use a fisher scientific burner.. and a quadzilla for that matter) and here is what i think about them

BOBCAT: small, its great for beads on 5 lpm with a flame a little wider then on 10 lpm and on 5 lpm the flame is about 8 inches long max, probably 6 inches. 10 lpm is great for simple pipes like the cheep china ones at some shops with a flame of about a foot long and half inch or so(about the size of the torch face, can make a 2-3 inch long 25mm tube pretty easily with a small amount of patience but can go way beyond that, it would probably max out at about 20-30 lpm of oxy if you have it, but i havent got that far, im guessing atleast 20 lpm. i dont have a problem with carbon but i clean my torch after every use. the one and only dislike i have is that the knobs are sealed with glue or something, idk what the deal is but its glued but seams to hold up without problem

ALPHA: also small i have only used it once, on tanked oxy, good little torch but not much of a piper i dont think, it can handle small boro of coarse, im sure a pipe wouldnt be to far out of its leauge but i didnt see it being much more then a bead torch because it had a thin flame, but idk i didnt feel like dumping out oxygen for the sake of knowing how big the torch went, it seams to be a ton sturdier then the bobcat, since it doesnt seam to be glued anywere, also its base is alot nicer. and im sure its wonderful on 5-10 lpm for beads or sculptures or pendants

MINOR: well i have used a red rocket which i think has a minor centire fire, idk though. it goes ok , it seamed like it wanted to be small and wide or long and thin(....) but i hate anything that doesnt fit in with the rest of the torches, (propane on the right and both knobs spin oppisit) from what i remeber the red rockets valves all spun the same way and i think were on oppisit sides then usual that was a long time ago though..

MINICC:i didnt like this guy to much, standard hunk of brass you would expect to find at homedepot, it got hot ill give it that, but it didnt do it in style or with grace , i enjoyed using it for the time i did but i didnt hessitate moving seats to use a better torch as soon as i got the chance to.i think the knobs were reversed but didnt pay that much attention and something else was really off about it that made me not like it much, but i dont remeber, must have not been extremely important.(

MAIN CONCLUSION; i know gtt and bethlehelm make low pressure torches and i dont think the minor or mini cc are low pressure (for the record the major minor might be low pressure) so bethlehelm or gtt is probably the best choice, picking which one is hard to say for sure, either will make many people very happy and piss alot of people off. i honestly wouldnt pick one over the other both of them would be very useful in almost any studio, as well as make a great paper weight.

although its premix and for boro only,
national 3a: great torch, sucks on 5 lpm unless you have a tinny tip but it gets way hot on 10 lpm and is affordable(can melt 2 inch tube but not recreationaly on 10 lpm) meaning i could make a inside out bead with 2 inch tube but it was horrible slow and hard. but is practially limitless with enough oxygen and a large tip. and it can be rained on thrown away stepped on snowed on (ran over?) and lost and it will still work great, and if it doesnt.. new valves are 20 dollars!,

but all torches get carbon, idk why really, probably either the jets having dirt or lint or the hoses or the face of the torch could be dirty or your propane is leaving residue on the torch, but its not the torches fault if it gets carbon build up while its in your possession

(well maybe it can be the torchs design that promotes carbon but they do recommend cleaning them alot so thats maybe where you go wrong..)

wolflo · #44 2013-12-15, 6:29pm

OMG, I just saw this thread and hope I am not toooo late. Got a Bobcat and have had it for 5 years.....cannot work boro hardly at all and I am on 2 Oxycon's. Just takes way to -long for any boro even 2-3 mm clear. Hope this helps and I kick myself daily for not getting the Lynx. L.