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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2012-09-02, 11:53am
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,223
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What about other metals for mandrels and foils?
Help me out here... we all use stainless steel mandrels, and silver or gold leaf or foils, but is that necessary? Is there a reason I can't use small scraps of aluminum foil in a bead? Can I make my dreadlock beads on copper or iron pipe instead of not-available-in-hubby's-plumbing-box stainless steel tubing? I know copper might fume beads in the kiln,but if I'm taking them off the mandrel and batch annealing later, why would it matter?
Enquiring minds want to know....
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L-111
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2012-09-02, 12:14pm
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CatTickler Extraordinaire
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Join Date: Nov 12, 2008
Location: Warner Robins, Georgia
Posts: 146
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I have seen enamel beads made directly on copper tubing, by rolling the hot tubing in the enamel successively to build up the layers. I have also read about Italian bead artists who make glass beads directly on copper tubing, and then batch send them to a chemical place to have the copper dissolved from the bead. I think it was in James Kervins book "More than you ever wanted to know about glass beadmaking," where the copper tubing was used with clear glass to create a pink hued bubbly center.
You can use tungsten as mandrels, but it is more expensive, and can fume the glass if it is heated to hot/bright. I believe that you can use aluminum, but the results are ugly and it turns out to be a waste of good glass. Iron transfers heat up the rod readily (burns hand), degrades quickly (flaky metal bits) when heated to glowing, but you could always try it dipped in bead release while being careful not to heat the mandrel too much.
That is just my experience/faulty memory, your mileage may vary.
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2012-09-02, 2:10pm
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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One good way to find out what works to to Google the melting temperatures of the metals that you have under consideration. If substantially higher then the melting point of glass, then there may be some possibilities.
Keep in mind the safety issues of using materials that are questionable for lampwork. And be aware of all the safety concerns.
"Mix 12 oz. silver nitrate, 4 oz. uranium, 4 oz. manganese, 4 oz. arsenic, 12 oz. potash nitrate. Add to 100 lb. of molten glass. Combine with artistry, chemistry, and secrecy. The result: “Gold Lustre,” a signature glass of Louis Comfort Tiffany, also called iridescent for its lustrous finish."
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2012-09-02, 11:21pm
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Dynamic Duo
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Join Date: Aug 13, 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 1,605
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I have made beads directly on copper pipes in various ways -
a) cut copper into lengths and then put on a thickly dipped mandrel, just clean the release off the copper before applying glass.
b) directly on copper tube and then cutting tube flush with end of the beads.
Glass directly on the copper tube can be beautiful - especially transparent glasses, as for me the copper turned a brilliant scarlet which shows through the glass.
I know I used a few different thicknesses of copper to find one I did not accidentally melt through.
I have tried all sorts of metal in beads: copper mesh scrubbies, steel wool. Never tried aluminum. Brass frit and wire are WONDERFUL to use. Ceates bubbles and reaction lines.
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2012-09-03, 7:23am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Its all about melting points of metals and heat transfer of metals....
Aluminum foil is going to burn away almost instantly be cause it melts at about 1400° f. and will turn into charred black grimy looking ick on your glass....
Also stay from faux gold and silver leaf because its only "colored" aluminum foil...
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2012-09-03, 8:32am
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Bigger, longer, and uncut
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Join Date: Aug 01, 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 447
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Just recently I've been experimenting with 3/16" titanium rod in hopes of using this as a mandrel. The solid stainless steel rods used for big-hole beads get pretty heavy! Titanium rod is twice as expensive as stainless, but if it works, it will be worth it to me.
My two tries so far have shown that bead release (I use Fusion) really sticks to titanium! I have to really rub the release off the mandrel after soaking, as opposed to just swiping it off stainless.
The less-heartening news is that it's nearly impossible to remove the bead from the mandrel normally. It is really stuck! My husband kept whacking the mandrel end on a hard surface until the bead loosened. Please note that he was NOT bouncing the mandrel (letting go and catching it). He was holding it in his hand and pounding the end with the mandrel held vertically.
The grade of titanium I'm using is 6AL-4V. I may try a different one.
If anyone has any insight into titanium mandrels, I would love to hear it. I've searched on LE for such a discussion and didn't find anything.
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Evelyn
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2012-09-03, 1:57pm
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ScrapSurfGlassPaddleSew
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2012
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 3,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M.
Its all about melting points of metals and heat transfer of metals....
Aluminum foil is going to burn away almost instantly be cause it melts at about 1400° f. and will turn into charred black grimy looking ick on your glass....
Also stay from faux gold and silver leaf because its only "colored" aluminum foil...
Dale
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You know what? I don't think I ever actually think about how hot my torch is in that context... that the flame I play with is hot enough to actually burn metal never crosses my mind. Fingernails, yes, but aluminum?
I guess it's like water - if it's too deep to touch bottom, it doesn't matter if it's 30 feet or 300; if the torch is hot enough to burn me, it doesn't matter if it's 350 degrees or 3500 degrees.
Though I tread water much better than flame...
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L-111
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2012-09-03, 3:56pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 28, 2010
Location: Winthrop, MN
Posts: 3,010
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Aluminum transfers heat up your mandrel and can have noxious fumes! Ask me how I know! LOLL
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LynieG
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2012-09-03, 4:40pm
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Alaska Boro
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Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
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An oxygen/propane flame is in the range of 2820 C. Or about 5,000 F.
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