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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2007-09-23, 9:31pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Oct 29, 2005
Location: Now in sunny Florida, where everything melts...
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Tools To Line Beads W/sterling Silver
Where do you buy your tools to line Pandora beads with Sterling Silver?
Thanks for the links...
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2007-09-23, 10:50pm
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Beyond Cloud 9!
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Location: Kansas
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I know Retro Glass Tools makes a really cool one!!
I'm lousy at posting links, but it's Retro Glass Tools dot com.
I think there's a couple others out there now, but I've never used them. Retro's is really easy to use and is very well made.
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Lisa
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2007-09-23, 11:01pm
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Ghost Town Glass
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Jim Moore makes an amazing bead lining tool! Really easy to use.
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2007-09-24, 6:59am
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ManBearPig
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A hammer and a couple dapping punches would be a lot cheaper, I think...
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2007-09-24, 7:10am
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Lucky me, I married a machinist and he made me a STUNNING one. The only other one I have seen is the Retro one. Lisa, I love the way you spelled out DOT!
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Cynthia
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2007-09-24, 7:57am
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Kimberly, I'd be very interested in your assessment of Jim's lining tool. I really want one (mostly cause I'm too lazy to do the dapping block thing) and want to know how both Jim and Retro Tool's compare. So thank you!
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Darleen
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2007-09-24, 12:27pm
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I've read both instructions.... they both mention the risk of breaking the bead!!!!!! I don't like that..... any suggestions besides accepting it?.... Thanks!
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2007-09-24, 12:53pm
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Outrigger Captain!
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Wowee! Those are expensive tools. I do it with the dapping block & as long as I don't get impatient the results are great. It would be nice to have a tool that put even pressure on both ends instead of all the tapping, but once you take the time to learn the technique is really is pretty easy. No matter what, a few beads will have to be sacrificed in the process.
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Carolyn Earley
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2007-09-24, 12:55pm
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Ghost Town Glass
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Sometimes you break a bead. I have done it when dapping by hand and it sucks! But it is one of the risks. Seeing Jim's tool in use, I am not sure how that would happen, but Andrea can probably speak to that.
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2007-09-24, 2:07pm
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Wild at Heart!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Openstudio
I've read both instructions.... they both mention the risk of breaking the bead!!!!!! I don't like that..... any suggestions besides accepting it?.... Thanks!
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If you use dapping tools and a hammer you run the risk of breaking and chipping your bead. I mean, you ARE beating on it with a hammer. I've never broken one, but I have chipped them on the side before.
I'm taking Andrea's class this weekend. i bought Jim Moore's tool and I'm looking forward to using it. I understand it's MUCH easier than dapping
Kristi
PS: Kimberly.. I can't wait to see what you two came up with!
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2007-09-24, 2:09pm
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Certified Glassaholic!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glassactcc
Lucky me, I married a machinist and he made me a STUNNING one. The only other one I have seen is the Retro one. Lisa, I love the way you spelled out DOT!
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Cynthia,
I'd love to see the tool your DH made for you!
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2007-09-24, 3:13pm
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Present tense
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberly
Well, I used Jim Moore's tool for the first time today, with direction by Andrea. I used some practice beads (just in case). I was able to line all three beads, 1/4 inch holes, including polishing on a Foredom, in less than 10 minutes. Not a single chip or crack. I will post some photos later. WELL worth the price.
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I sooooo want one of Jim Moore's bead liners. I killed three beads last weekend using hammer and punches (my first attempts), and nearly impulsively ordered it then. Anyway, it's definitely on my wishlist now!
I can't wait to see your pics, Kimberly!
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Tiffany
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2007-09-24, 3:24pm
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I agree with Cosmo. I've been doing this for a while and use dapping tools and I rarely chip beads and have never broken one. Plus I like the control I have with the dapping tools. I have found that chipping usually happens when you flare the tubing too much before pounding it flat. It's also a lot easier if you anneal your silver tubing before trying to line the bead. I have found that the polishing of the silver takes way more time than the actual lining of the bead. That is if you like the look of the highly polished silver, which I do. I see many silver lined beads where there isn't any polishing done at all and I think that detracts from the beauty of the piece. But, that's just my opinion.
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Nanette Marie
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Bullet with 2 15lp oxycons
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2007-09-25, 8:58am
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Plus, from what Andrea explained at the class I took with her, Jim's got a plastic piece that is used in the flaring that helps cushion the bead.
This tool gets my vote! (and soon my order)
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Lynda
Cheetah, 5 lpm and 7lpm conc/generator (8-9 psi), natural gas (booster), started 11/06
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2007-09-25, 9:48pm
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Member
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One reason that beads break or chip is that the shape of the hole in the bead is not correct. It should have a nice pucker and have no lumps. It is the lumps that take all of the pressure as the tube is set and the bead chip or breaks. The same is true if there is no pucker. The sliver rolls out and does not go around sharp angles very well. The press that I sell is simple to use, but cutting the tubing to the right length takes some practice and a $10 digital caliper to make good measurements.
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2007-09-26, 6:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanette Marie
I agree with Cosmo. I've been doing this for a while and use dapping tools and I rarely chip beads and have never broken one. Plus I like the control I have with the dapping tools. I have found that chipping usually happens when you flare the tubing too much before pounding it flat. It's also a lot easier if you anneal your silver tubing before trying to line the bead. I have found that the polishing of the silver takes way more time than the actual lining of the bead. That is if you like the look of the highly polished silver, which I do. I see many silver lined beads where there isn't any polishing done at all and I think that detracts from the beauty of the piece. But, that's just my opinion.
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I totally agree with you, I do all of mine with dapping punches and a rawhide mallet, but I am really interested in purchasing Jim Moores tool as it would flare the ends quickly and witout marring. Also, using Moores tool would keep the tubing semi-soft which makes finishing easier. My understanding is that you still have to finish the silver with punches to get them to lie flat against the bead.
The finishing is really important to me too. I use various abrasives with my Foredom flexshaft and then several polishing compounds to get the shiny unmarred finish.
I am planning on buying his tool next month----yipeee
lois
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2007-09-26, 8:00am
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Dapping punches work great but by the time that the tubing is flared it has work hardened making the setting more difficult. With a press the tubing is flared around 4 times then it is time to set the tubing and it should not have work hardened too much. Also there is no need to anneal the tubing but when the tubing is cut it needs to be smoothed with a file or emery cloth. This will keep the tubing from ripping and make the edge of the tubing look nicer. If the tubing does rip it might be that the tubing was cut too long and it is being stretched too much. The tubing will still have to be set by hand with a hard (rawhide, plastic) finishing hammer. I have plastic dies for setting 1/4 inch tubing and larger. I can lean on the press as hard as I want and have not broken a bead. I put a cheater bar on the handle an pull on it. The plastic forces the silver follow the contours of the bead with no pounding!
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2007-09-26, 8:30am
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Broken
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Location: Victoria BC/Stettler Alberta
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I have used tha hammer technique and loose beads, plus the silver looks hammered on (obviously) when you are done. I don't like it. I cannot WAIT to try Jim's tools this weekend
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2007-09-26, 12:24pm
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Senior Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Moore Tools
Dapping punches work great but by the time that the tubing is flared it has work hardened making the setting more difficult. With a press the tubing is flared around 4 times then it is time to set the tubing and it should not have work hardened too much. Also there is no need to anneal the tubing but when the tubing is cut it needs to be smoothed with a file or emery cloth. This will keep the tubing from ripping and make the edge of the tubing look nicer. If the tubing does rip it might be that the tubing was cut too long and it is being stretched too much. The tubing will still have to be set by hand with a hard (rawhide, plastic) finishing hammer. I have plastic dies for setting 1/4 inch tubing and larger. I can lean on the press as hard as I want and have not broken a bead. I put a cheater bar on the handle an pull on it. The plastic forces the silver follow the contours of the bead with no pounding!
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Sounds great Jim, I am planning buying your tool in October! Lois
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2007-09-26, 1:55pm
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Normal is Boring!!
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Location: Utah
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Jim- I have bought your tool and have broke many beads. There is such a fine line of pressure that can be applied to flair the tubing that I always over shoot and shatter. Bead cap or not. I spent a few nights and got frustrated and haven't really spent more time practicing. I know I need to get a feel for using it and how much pressure to apply- it's gonna take practice, practice practice I'm sure! But if you have any advise I would love to hear more. I really think it's user error at this point but the handle really shoots fast after a certain point! I'm gonna pull it our and try, try again!!
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Antique Brass Findings
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2007-09-26, 4:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Afterdark
Jim- I have bought your tool and have broke many beads. There is such a fine line of pressure that can be applied to flair the tubing that I always over shoot and shatter. Bead cap or not. I spent a few nights and got frustrated and haven't really spent more time practicing. I know I need to get a feel for using it and how much pressure to apply- it's gonna take practice, practice practice I'm sure! But if you have any advise I would love to hear more. I really think it's user error at this point but the handle really shoots fast after a certain point! I'm gonna pull it our and try, try again!!
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Hi Trudi,
Sounds to me like you are pulling way too hard. Is your machine bolted down on a table? This helps a lot. I first flare one end of the tube without the bead and then put the tube through the bead, turn it around so the unflared tube is up and flare again, turn around and repeat and repeat again on the other side. Don't try to do it all with one pull of the handle. Does this make sense to you????? Then when you are done with this you use the plastic insert and it will totally flatten the silver tubing to the bead! I will be teaching some more of my masters classes next year! I could teach you! But I am sure with practice you will do just fine!
take care
Andrea
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2007-09-26, 5:38pm
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Member
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Hi Trudi
I am sorry to hear that the capping is not going well and thank you for bringing it to my attention. If any body has a persistent problem I want to hear about it please call me at 360 379 2936. I am not sure what you are doing wrong but I have a guess.
I think that you are trying to set the rivet with the press. The press will flare the tubing and you want to quit flaring the tubing before it becomes snug on the bead. The tubing when done with the press should have symmetrical flares on both ends and should not be tight on the bead. It should be a (little) loose.
Now it is time to set the rivet and this is done by hand with a rawhide or plastic hammer. The hammer can not be metal unless you are very good. A soft hammer will lay the silver down onto the bead with out breaking it. Be sure to support the bottom side of the rivet when you start to set it. By supporting the bottom of the rivet you can work effectively on the top flare with out damaging the bead. Setting the rivet takes some practice and patience. The thing to keep in mind is that the rivet should be snug but you need to quit before it becomes too tight.
Some other things to look for.
1. Cutting the tubing too long. The tubing will rip or collapse
2. The shape of the hole in the bead. Should be a nice pucker and not lumpy or the
bead will probably break.
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2007-09-26, 6:17pm
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Hi Jim - does the tool come with the plastic insert that Andrea is talking about?
Or do you have to order it separately? I just received my order from you and it didn't have anything like that included.
Jenny
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2007-09-26, 8:37pm
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The plastic dies are a separate item and they are $50 a set. They are for tubing 1/4 inch and larger. The plastic (Delren) is hard but flexible and if you pull hard enough it will force the silver to follow the contours of your bead with no hammering. The dies really speed things up and I have yet to break a bead with these dies. The dies will become rough with time but they will continue to do their job. If they become too rough I can reface them for $10. They can be refaced about 20 times. They will be on my website hopefully late next week Jim
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2007-09-26, 9:12pm
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Thanks for clearing that up Jim! I will keep checking your website for those.
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2007-09-27, 3:40am
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Kimberly, so where are the pic's you were posting? gayle
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2007-09-28, 5:38pm
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Always with a smile!
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Sold me Kimberly
It's on my Christmas list, but I may buy it myself since the price goes up Sunday
lol
Jill
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2007-09-28, 5:44pm
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Really Beautiful...... I just bought the bead liner tool and I can't wait for it to arrive. Now that I see your fantastic beads, I feel good about the purchase.
Thanks for showing.... love them.
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2007-09-28, 10:26pm
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Martyrs don't bitch.
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So the Jim Moore Tool can be used with caps right? I mean you'd have to make them separately, but you can put caps between the bead and rivet?
TEague
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2007-09-29, 7:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teague
So the Jim Moore Tool can be used with caps right? I mean you'd have to make them separately, but you can put caps between the bead and rivet?
TEague
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Yes!!!! Very easy! I do it all of the time!
Andrea
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