Total Beginner With Very Specific Questions

[Kalera]

I'm afraid that you definitely need a kiln for this project, so that you can anneal your finished pieces. If they don't crack when you're heating them up (and you may be able to pull that off, with enough practice) you may be able to bury them in vermiculite to cool down, then have them batch-annealed in someone else's kiln within a few days. Otherwise, cracks will form from the stress differential, sometimes explosively (I've seen it happen in person, sitting at a bar; it was fascinating, and no one was hurt, but you definitely don't want your products doing that). In my experience, bottle glass is really susceptible to thermal shock.

[2sheds]

Thanks. Good idea. Looking up the definition of 'annealing' would probably be a good place for me to start.

[2sheds]

Originally Posted by echeveria

Can you find someone who does fusing or other glass work and perhaps borrow or rent some kiln time? Even so, I think the endeavor is pretty complicated. I lean toward cutting off the bottom and doing a cold join after putting in your shards.

come to think of it, finding space in someone's kiln shouldn't be too hard in a city of 8 million.

D'Oh!

[theglasszone]

Originally Posted by 2sheds

Thanks. Good idea. Looking up the definition of 'annealing' would probably be a good place for me to start.

You're on the right track now, kid! Welcome back...!!!

I think I'm gonna like you!

De

[playswithfire104]

Another idea for the broken glass would be to use it making mosaics. That you could do that in your apt and no kiln needed. You could make designs and sell them to tourists as "Recycled New York City Glass Works of Art".

[RyanTheNumberImp]

Again, I will point out that any form of sealing the glass back together is what is called a butt join:
http://www.ecu.edu/glassblowing/gb.htm#butt%20seals

It is a very basic technique, but in soft glass and with such a large diameter I won't hesitate to say that it is impossible to do by hand. Even joining small tubing without introducing any visual imperfections is near impossible, you always get some distortion and a line where it sealed.

[Northern Heron]

I don't know that I have anything new to offer but the talk of "cold joining the bottles" from the bottom sounds good to me, with a cap of some sort on top.

Though you won't know the COE of the glass, the only other idea I had was to melt the broken pieces and turn them into shapes, and then add the(annealed) melted pieces to the inside of the bottle. Then cold seal the bottle. Others would need to inform you as to annealing schedules for the broken melted glass pieces but that might be kinda fun.

Good luck. I consider myself a newbie here still, I don't post a lot, I have read volumes and learned more in my quest to learn how glass behaves than I could ever tell you... from the nice folks here. I don't for a second think anyone is withholding information from you, it is just that glass is very complicated...to want to work it is to NEED to get to know it, and find out as much as you can learn about how it behaves... for it is magical. You really DO need to read and read, and read some more. Then PPP, practice practice practice. Then scratch your head and get frustrated, and go back at it some more.

Glass is a magical world. Good luck, you have a wonderful idea.

[theglasszone]

I've thought about this a lot over the last 24 hours or so since I first posted. I think your idea is wonderful, as I said before - very creative!

But..........and that's a BIG BUT.............I can't help but think this is a task that is beyond doable. I don't say that lightly; as you can see from my signature line, I'm not inclined to stay within the parameters of what everyone has told me can (and can't!) be done on a Hot Head. But I will say that I think this is a monumental task even with a SERIOUS torch and a few years of practice under your belt.

On the flip side...I think the concept could be expounded on - using lampwork techniques that I'm gonna bet you can achieve within a short amount of time and practice. There's something about you...I can tell...that once you get your equipment together and give this a go, you're probably going to be a leaps-and-bounds learner!

What would you think of taking this idea, for a sealed bottle, and applying it to a vessel? Vessels are made from blowing a wound gather of glass. You could even break up a single bottle, for example (maybe clear?), heat and pull the chunks into rods, wind the rods to make a clear vessel, then stuff that sucker with colored chunks of other "found" glass?

Normally, lampworked vessels are on the small side (1" to 1 1/2" or so) and a loop is created in glass while the vessel is being formed so it could be worn as a piece of jewelry. I know "jewelry" wasn't your first aim or thought, but I'd love to see you find a way to do a form of this idea and learn while making it come to life. Great ideas shouldn't die on the vine...

Anyway...just a thought!

[Tabitha]

I'm not sure if anyone has already said this, apologies if they have, I stopped reading after the first 10 or so posts.
There is this really amazing feature on this forum called.............. A SEARCH FUNCTION.
I know, amazing.
I noticed De has replied a bit to this thread- DO WHATEVER SHE SAYS, THE WOMAN IS A HOTHEAD WONDER. If everyone else says you can't do it on a hothead but De says you can....you can, but only if you are her And given what she produces, even if everyone says you can't do it, give it a go, you might be the next De!
BTW your recycled glass idea is beautiful

[AVTrout]

I think we should re-name De "The Murrini Queen"!

[Flonche]

If you're in Brooklyn, hone your social skills and go to urbanglass on Fulton St

[LaurieBSmith]

How do you plan to hold said bottles? the mental pictures I have are rather scary.....

[AdiaB]

Originally Posted by Flonche

If you're in Brooklyn, hone your social skills and go to urbanglass on Fulton St

I have a feeling if he went to Urban, he'd have them honed for him.

[joycerenee]

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[AuntD]

Originally Posted by 2sheds

...I thought I was being gently morally instructive.

Something tells me you're very young. This isn't glass advice, but this jumped out at me so hard I had to let you know... and I don't mean this unkindly. Any time you think you're being "gently morally instructive" to a group of full-fledged adults, you have stepped into deep water and you don't know nearly as much on the subject as you think you do. If you want to be gently morally instructive to a group of kids under 10, go ahead. If you want to be gently morally instructive to a bunch of teens, have fun, but be prepared to duck. But if you feel the need to be gently morally instructive to a bunch of adults, you are missing a large part of the picture, and it's time to sit back and ask for help.

Best of luck on your glass adventures, you have a very interesting idea.

[Kalera]

Out of curiosity, I decided to try something. I took a beer bottle (clean and dry - the dry part is VERY important!) wrapped it in a rag (a leather glove would be better, but I couldn't find my studio gloves - damn elves!) turned on both inner and outer flames of my Barracuda to a slightly reducing flame, and slowly introduced the neck of the bottle, rotating it to keep the heat even. I pulled the top of the neck off with a pair of large tweezers and tossed it in my slag bucket; in doing so this closed the neck. I then reheated the neck, causing it to pop a small hole from the pressure of the heated air within, and used the tweezers to form a loop. It's sitting on my workbench cooling down right now; I'll check in a minute to see if it cracks. If not, this project could be feasible if you can batch-anneal in a kiln somewhere.

However, ideally there are a couple of things you would do differently. My thought is that you should fill the bottle with glass scraps, place it in a light bench clamp, and use a handheld torch.

The whole process took me about 5 minutes. I would not want to try it with a Hot Head, but it would be possible.

Off to check the bottle...

...it's fine.

Keep in mind that I've been torching for 18 years, but I'd say that with some practice and the right equipment, you can do this.

[Kalera]

I now have the ugliest Christmas tree ornament ever made. Yay.

[HWCGlass]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I now have the ugliest Christmas tree ornament ever made. Yay.

Hahaha

[ArtcoInc]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I now have the ugliest Christmas tree ornament ever made. Yay.

Pictures ????

Malcolm

[Kalera]

It's a terrible picture. Do you like how I bothered to remove the label first?

[Mr. Meker]

Thats really good!

You might want to try this before you buy any more stuff and see if glass is really the thing for you. http://www.instructables.com/id/Make...Bottles-video/

[joycerenee]

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[artwhim]

Awesome experiment Kalera!! Question, though, when you popped it to make the loop, did the loop reseal it, or is there a small hole for air to escape? If there isn't a hole, do you think it would survive batch annealing, or would the air inside expand and break the bottle? I've always feared working with completely sealed hollow pieces and don't know what, if any, special treatment is involved.


2sheds, an alternate idea, the broken glass could be crushed into frit then it would fit through the neck without cutting the bottle open. The bottle could be capped and a clever label attached. Many design possibilities would exist with the different glass colors. You might even be able to add colored resin to the bottles of clear glass for an interesting effect. Oh, don't forget to include other urban artifacts that are small enough to fit through the bottle neck. If you want to learn lampworking, you could melt small pieces, or strips, of the broken glass into twisted ribbons that would fit into the bottles.

[Holly]

The label makes it Xtra Klassy.

[artwhim]

Originally Posted by Holly

The label makes it Xtra Klassy.

OK, here's a link to really, truly, classy work done with recycled beer and wine bottles:

http://www.mackglass.com/art.shtml

He also made a 600 lb Christmas tree from clear and green! I was so disappointed that I didn't have a chance to go watch them work on it.

[joycerenee]

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[ArtcoInc]

Originally Posted by Kalera

It's a terrible picture. Do you like how I bothered to remove the label first?

It's what we, as glass artists, do. We try things. We explore. We play. We learn.

Thank you!

Malcolm

[Kalera]

I think that the other glass inside the bottle won't be a problem, because it won't reach the melting point. In fact, the only reason I used a cloth to hold the bottle was fear of breakage... not because the bottle got at all hot. It should survive the annealing process just fine, as other sealed hollow forms do. I left the hole that was popped because I didn't feel like dealing with it, but Christmas ornaments and glass floats don't explode in annealing and I can think of no technical reason a sealed bottle would.

Artwhim, that's an awesome website! Wow! Thanks for sharing it.

Malcolm, you're welcome!

2sheds, thanks for the learning opportunity.

[Kalera]

That said, any glass scraps should not extend into the neck of the bottle.

[midniteburner]

Awesome experiement Kalera!!!

Sara