1/16th mandrels versus 3/32nd

SilverRiverJewelry · #1 2011-04-18, 8:11am

Okay, I have been using the 1/16th mandrels since I started lampworking about 20 months ago. I use the 3/32nds for boro. Never had a problem with the 1/16th until the last couple of months. I cut my own and they are all from the same batch. Lately, I have been bending the crap out of them, and I actually burnt through one the other day. I know this happens to other people but its never been a problem until now lol. I think its because I am a lot more comfortable about moving the glass around, and I have been making bigger beads, more tube beads and I tend to bend the smaller mandrel when taking the larger tube beads off no matter how careful I am.

Anyhow, I am thinking about just moving up to the 3/32nds for the soft glass also, I am tired of having to cut 20 or 30 mandrels every couple of weeks. For those of you who use the 3/32nds, do your customers care that the hole is bigger? Or do they just accept that its the normal size?

SuzyQ · #2 2011-04-18, 8:24am

Part of it is the age of the mandrel too. They tend to break down over time (with frequent use) and you notice it with the 1/16ths. I think as long as your beads aren't itty bitty 3/32 is better. It's not hard for a designer to deal with a bigger hole but it sure isn't easy to shove thin cord through tiny holes. I only make one design on the skinnys these days and that is because it's been a design I have made forever and I don't want to have to weed out different holes sizes. Not one customer has asked for a smaller hole and I do a lot of remakes in different colors for people.

PattyK · #3 2011-04-18, 8:33am

5/64 is a nice size - still small but not nearly as bendy.

Lisi · #4 2011-04-18, 8:34am

It changes the shape if you are making traditional rounds. The beads with the 3/32" holes are more donutty and the 1/16" hole beads are more squatty or chubby round. I make all of my beads with the 1/16" holes but I've found that I actually like the donutty rounds and will start offering my beads in that hole size as well. They look great side by side with large disc silver or GF beads in between. Designers like to do that with bracelets and like 5-7 beads on a leather cord.

I've been getting requests for them all along, and do them as a special order from time to time. Oh, and BTW, my "color swirls" beads are easier to make on the 3/32" mandrels, because less chance of me dragging the bead off when raking the frit!

alb6094 · #5 2011-04-18, 9:40am

I use 1/16" for 8-12mm beads and for the rest I've switched to 3/32 for the reason you mentioned, got tired of using up too many little mandrels. Also, I'm doing larger and larger work now and being more aggressive with the glass so I need a more stable mandrel. I wholesale locally and no one has ever commented or requested a smaller mandrel size.

SilverRiverJewelry · #6 2011-04-18, 9:45am

okay then. I think I will probably go ahead and make the switch. i will keep the 1/16th for the repeat customers who buy a certain style of bead and simply start to use the 3/32nds. All of my bead rollers will still fit that too lol, so it should be a fairly simply switch. I will just have to make sure that the listings reflect the new bead hole size as I go. I really think a lot of it is that I make bigger beads, faster and am much less delicate with them lol.

Hayley · #7 2011-04-18, 9:45am

I use 5/64" for beads up to about 1" and 3/32" for longer ones.

You can get bulk 5/64" from Sundance:
http://sundanceglass.com/glass-bead-tools-r.htm

Gail Kops · #8 2011-04-18, 11:19am

I use 1/16" for just about everything unless the bead is just too large or bulky. Most of my customers have told me that they prefer the smaller hole only because they don't have to stabilize as much.

MaryBeth · #9 2011-04-18, 11:30am

You can probably get away with using the 3/32" for bigger beads. However, I never noticed what a PITA those bigger holes were until I started wire wrapping some of my beads. Standard 20g sterling just whips around in that size of hole. I stabilized those beads with aquarium tubing but it's not really something I want to put in fine jewelry.

I've used 1/16" forever and I can do larger beads on it. This size hole is perfect for wire wrapping.

For people who do wire wrapping I'm sure they would prefer the smaller hole. If your design lends itself to leather or cord then the bigger hole would be better. Although, again I found for those types if materials you really need to use a 1/8" mandrel.

So I guess my answer would be is do what you are comfortable with

Moth · #10 2011-04-18, 11:49am

I use 3/32" almost exclusively. Seems to me the bead release holds up better because I make mostly large focals that are in the flame a long time. I do very much like the 5/64" though, it's just that I only have about 5 of them. LOL

When I want to stabilize a hole, I don't use aquarium tubing, I use 2mm sterling crimp beads...that way is is still sterling all the way through but it won't wobble. You can also use 11/0 glass seed beads but the holes are smaller so it only works with thinner wire.

I figure it this way--you can always stabilize a piece for a larger hole but it is very much harder and practically impossible for the average jewelry maker to make the holes in artisan lampwork beads bigger. You risk breakage and all sorts of trouble.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what Lisa means though because I can make perfectly round beads on 3/32" mandrels...do it all the time. Same with donuts on 1/16". You can make whatever shape you want on whatever size mandrel you want. Maybe because Lisa makes perfectly matched sets of smaller beads the mandrel size affects the shape more than I've experienced.

~~Mary

alb6094 · #11 2011-04-18, 3:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

I use 3/32" almost exclusively. Seems to me the bead release holds up better because I make mostly large focals that are in the flame a long time. I do very much like the 5/64" though, it's just that I only have about 5 of them. LOL

When I want to stabilize a hole, I don't use aquarium tubing, I use 2mm sterling crimp beads...that way is is still sterling all the way through but it won't wobble. You can also use 11/0 glass seed beads but the holes are smaller so it only works with thinner wire.

I figure it this way--you can always stabilize a piece for a larger hole but it is very much harder and practically impossible for the average jewelry maker to make the holes in artisan lampwork beads bigger. You risk breakage and all sorts of trouble.

I'm not sure I'm understanding what Lisa means though because I can make perfectly round beads on 3/32" mandrels...do it all the time. Same with donuts on 1/16". You can make whatever shape you want on whatever size mandrel you want. Maybe because Lisa makes perfectly matched sets of smaller beads the mandrel size affects the shape more than I've experienced.

~~Mary

That's exactly what I use, crimp beads in either SS or GF to match whatever wire I'm using. Works great and is still quality material (not to say that the plastic tubing isn't quality I've just never tried it - I stumbled onto this method awhile back and I'm comfortable with it).

PiP · #12 2011-04-18, 5:30pm

Sonja - I didn't see it mentioned as I was glancing thru this thread but you can cut your mandrels down. I cut about 3" off the end of mine and filed them. They're shorter but working just like new.

MaryBeth · #13 2011-04-18, 7:33pm

I like the crimp bead idea, Mary! I have a ton of little liquid silver beads laying around also they might work.

SilverRiverJewelry · #14 2011-04-19, 7:11am

Nance, thanks for that suggestion, I may do that. I make jewelry and do a lot of wire wrapping and its one of the reasons that I use the 1/16th mandrel. Although it never really bothered me to stabilize a bead, its just something I took for granted. Maybe I will check out the 5/64 and give those a try. Decisions, decision lol.

SilverRiverJewelry · #15 2011-04-19, 7:27am

Thank you Hayley for the link, I have bookmarked so I don't lose it.

Lisi · #16 2011-04-19, 1:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

I'm not sure I'm understanding what Lisa means though because I can make perfectly round beads on 3/32" mandrels...do it all the time. Same with donuts on 1/16". You can make whatever shape you want on whatever size mandrel you want. Maybe because Lisa makes perfectly matched sets of smaller beads the mandrel size affects the shape more than I've experienced.

~~Mary

The only way I can get a large round focal is to make two smaller disc beads about 1/4" inch apart, then fill in and round it out. Can get a sphere shaped bead like this, using the 3/32". To get them roundy-round using a footprint placement and subsequent wraps of glass, I have to cook the snot out of it to get them to round up on 3/32" mandrels. The 1/16" width is so narrow in diameter that the glass just wants to melt off so getting it round is easy.

Disc or donut shape on a 1/16" for me? Only on the HH because my current torch set-up is just too hot for those little 12mm beads to make discs or donuts unless I use a roller tool. May end up getting one for that purpose.

OH and BTW - gorgeous violet beads!! SO lovely!

SilverReflections · #17 2011-04-20, 10:51am

I think there is a time and place for both sizes (and more sizes too lol!). I use both, 1/16" and 3/32", and it depends on the bead and their use in jewelry as to which size works better. All of my longer or larger focal beads are done on 3/32 since they will go directly on a lot of chains/cording or work well when making into a pendent + I always bent the 1/16" mandrels on those too. But for bracelets I often use the 1/16th size since I tend to like the crunch, or squeezed, beads for those and they aren't very thick in the center. I've only been selling online for a little while but haven't had requests to change the hole size of any of my sets which are all made on the 1/16" mandrels. I'm guessing designers will often make do with whatever size hole if they like the beads.

I'd like to try the 5/64th but haven't gotten around to ordering any in that size - I tend to just order precut ones by the pound in the other sizes and file the edges myself if needed. I'm on my second pound of both sizes now after about 8 years or so of on again off again torching. The ones that get bent or break off I use as holders/organizers for the beads I like or may want to sell. I also save them and cut them down to use in cigar boxes or bead displays for shows. So save those smaller mandrels since all the beads fit on them! Here's a recent show display, the majority of the beads are on my old bent used mandrels. Kinda got of topic there, sorry!
Tina

susanlambert · #18 2011-04-20, 11:01am

I prefer the larger hole. I like to put 16 g silver through them. It's interesting to see what people are doing with both sizes.

Lisi · #19 2011-04-20, 11:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by susanlambert

I prefer the larger hole. I like to put 16 g silver through them. It's interesting to see what people are doing with both sizes.

This is why I'm thinking of offering most of my beads in both sizes. I'm sure plenty of buyers pass mine up when they see that all of them are 1/16" holes. Something to think about.

misspiggy · #20 2011-04-21, 5:33pm

Does 5/64 get bent like 1/16 does??

Lisi · #21 2011-04-22, 7:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by misspiggy

Does 5/64 get bent like 1/16 does??

No, they are much more durable. Most people bend their 1/16 mandrels because they get it too hot while working, or more commonly, bend them when taking beads off.

I rarely bend my 1/16 and I can't remember the last time I did. I check mine at eye level using a Smircich tail stock holder, and if any are bent in the slightest, I don't use them unless the other end is good. I check each and every mandrel before dipping and do that religiously, otherwise I would be wasting my time. Bent mandrels = wonky beads or ya just can't get them off.

To prevent bending the 1/16 when taking beads off, you must use a flat nosed pliers with good teeth for gripping. The wide tip like this is best, and you need to grip the mandrel no more than 1/4 inch away from the bead. I'm right handed so I grip with my left hand, left side of bead with long mandrel end pointing to the left. With my right hand I use a paper towel or piece of rag to grip the bead and gently wiggle to get it off.

Of course, if you don't want to bend the skinny mandrels, I'll suggest using a bead release that makes it easy to get them off. - KRAG Mudd. Which reminds me, I need to order some now.

misspiggy · #22 2011-04-22, 10:07am

Thanks for the wonderful tip!!

DesertDreamer · #23 2011-04-22, 8:52pm

I'm trying to figure out what you all are doing to your 1/16ths to bend them up so bad. Maybe it's something to do with making beads at the end of the mandrel? (I'm assuming most of you work at the end.) I get some bendys after a year or so, but months??? Eeek!

One thing you can do to straighten them, if they're not tool old and stressed, is to roll them (several at a time) between two absolutely flat pieces of wood, or wood and metal. Roll them back & forth several times with generous pressure. This will straighten them and work harden them somewhat.