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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2009-05-16, 7:51pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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@#$@$% Caldera...
So many of you know my Caldera was treating me bad. I borrowed a pyrometer from dear Kalera, It was 100-200 degrees off. Anything had a 50% degree of cracking failure, thermal cracking.
I called Paragon. $60 later, a new thermocouple. Installed it. Fired up at the ol' Bullseye schedule and....
it's still 100 or so degrees off. Seems like the thermocouple did nothing. I'm REALLY PISSED OFF.
What do I try now? F#$%@$@%$%K DOUBLE FC$#%#$^#%$K
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2009-05-16, 8:08pm
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Life is change. Love it
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Is it running hot or cool?
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2009-05-16, 8:23pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
Location: Duh, Squidville
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A new thermocouple didn't correct my temp difference either on my Jen Ken - I just adjust for it in my settings.
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Cricket w/two 5 lpm oxycons - and sometimes a Minor.
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2009-05-16, 8:31pm
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Senior Member
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Location: Orlando, Florida
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I had a temp problem with my Caldera, and they sent me a relay and it's all fine again. Why did you think it was the thermocouple??
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Helen Starkweather
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2009-05-16, 8:35pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
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I tried adjusting. But I am still failing. I have it running a couple hundred higher and the pyrometer SAYS it is in range...but it's not, clearly, as a bead I have oft made keeps cracking. I need 970 and I had it around 1080, according to the Caldera....FARK. I had it ramp down at 100/hour all the way to room temp, to be totally conservative, and still. Bleah.
BLEAH!
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2009-05-16, 8:36pm
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Resident Luny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hels
I had a temp problem with my Caldera, and they sent me a relay and it's all fine again. Why did you think it was the thermocouple??
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Because that is what THEY told me. I wonder if they would take it back and exchange it for a relay, since I followed their advice.
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2009-05-16, 9:00pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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It seems strange to me that it could possibly be the relay. All that does is turn the elements on and off when it is ordered to by the controller, which is getting its info from the thermocouple.
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2009-05-16, 9:57pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Dec 24, 2007
Location: Orlando, Florida
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I don't have a clue how kilns work. My temperature was all over the place, dropping FAST, then jerking back up. When it happened, it cracked some of my stuff in the kiln.
If you call Paragon directly, they will send you a few tips about how to check for your problem. The person I dealt with at Paragon was Laura. Tell her Helen says Hi, I sent her a glass gift for getting back to me almost immediately via email after I whined at her in the middle of a Sat nite *hint: email her now*. She had my kiln working again within a few days (replacing the relay).
Marsha had the same problem and replaced her relay and it fixed the problem, someone else did too (I forgot who now). So I asked for a relay and it worked. That doesn't mean that my problem is the same as your problem.
Oops, didn't finish the note. I THINK the relay is the cheapest part if you have to buy one?? I think you should try it anyway, if it doesn't work, you can save the new one for when you do need one (because I have heard it was the most often to break part too... but again, I don't know anything about kilns, this is heresay). Good luck  !
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2009-05-17, 7:51am
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Resident Luny
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Well, it can't hurt to try. I have talked to them, that's how I knew to do the thermocouple. The problem is consistent, the temp doesn't rise and fall, sure sounds thermocouple like to me, but it isn't. *sigh* I really don't want to have to get a brand new kiln. And I need a kiln NOW.
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2009-05-17, 9:25am
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Just a thought, I don't know anyone who knows more about kilns than Craig Milliron at Arrow Springs and he is the nicest person in the world. I'm sure he would give you his thoughts on what is wrong before you call the company again. If this controller has never worked correctly, and you have replaced the thermocouple, then perhaps it is some wiring that is wrong in the controller. Did it come programmed or did you program it? If it came that way, I would wonder if the whole calibration isn't off somehow or they somehow did something wrong in programming it. There are just so many ways to go with this. It seems more mechanical than programming to me, but.............call Craig and I can bet his guess will be right.
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Pam
"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
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2009-05-17, 5:24pm
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Resident Luny
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I will call him.
It worked fine for a few years, then went south. So for awhile, all was well.
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2009-05-17, 8:15pm
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Then it is something that has gone wrong. Perhaps the relay would do it, then. I don't see how, but if it worked for Helen....... I'd keep the new thermocouple though. Spare parts are never a waste.
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Pam
"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
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2009-05-18, 6:11am
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I bought a new relay for my kiln at Granger and it was less then $10 bucks. I replaced it myself and all was back to normal in my kiln. Maybe that would be a quick, cheap fix?
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2009-05-18, 6:29am
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old fart
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what are you assuming to be the temperature standard? it is possible that both pyrometers are wrong.
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Mark Wilson
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2009-05-18, 11:55am
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Member
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I had a relay problem with my Jen Ken. Basically, it fused during a thunderstorm (yes, I was running it during a power surge and it wasn't on a surge protector) so it wasn't listening to the controller. The top elements would stay on too long. So a messed up relay could cause it to "ignore" the program.
Good luck!
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2009-05-20, 1:43pm
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Resident Luny
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Location: Pacific Northwest
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all I know is, my program worked for 2.5 years, now it doesn't. Paragon is starting to piss me off. This STILL isn't resolved, they STILL have nothing for me to do next, and their last thing they said, after 20 minutes of the phone, half of that waiting around on hold, was they were going to call Bullseye for me and make sure their glass hadn't changed. I TOLD them that I took my glass TO Bullseye and made my beads their, in their Caldera, with no problem.
They also suggested I wasn't letting my beads sit at 970 long enough, or at least for the last beads made. After I said the garage mode is always on an hour after the last bead is made. I don't expect them to be lampwork experts, but allow me some intelligence after doing this for 5+ years. It worked, then it didn't. SOMETHING changed. And it's not the $@#%$@% glass.
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2009-05-28, 9:02am
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Lizard rescue squad
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For a quick and easy thermocouple check, boil some water and stick the end of the thermocouple into it to read the temp. If it is more than a few degrees off of the boiling point then it is definitely something in your temperature readout system. It could be the thermocouple, it could be the controller itself, or it could be the connection between the two. (Is there an extension wire and/or plug?). This isn't a perfect way of checking, but it is quick and easy and should show any gross errors in the system. You also need to take into account the altitude where you live. Water boils at 212F at sea level but the boiling point goes down as the altitude increases. You can calculate the boiling point at your altitude by using the calculator here.
If it passes that test the second thing to try is to pull a thin stringer of the glass you use and support both ends so it is an inch or two off your kiln floor. The stringer should be one or two millimeters in diameter and nearly the length of the kiln interior. Bring the temperature up to about 50 degrees below where you anneal and let it soak for 15 - 20 minutes. Then increase the temperature in increments of 25 degrees, letting it soak again each time and checking the stringer for deformation before raising the temperature again. Note the temp at which you see noticeable bending. If it is way above your current annealing temp you have a problem.
Last - I had some crazy problems with beads cracking a while back. I thought it was the glass. Then I thought it was the oven or controller. After a series of tests I finally tracked it down to the fact that I was laying on my bead release too thick. I had been trying to create a slightly larger hole in the beads to fit a specific necklace wire size for a retailer I sell to, so I was double or triple dipping my mandrels. It was something I never would have considered, but testing tracked it down. After testing for temperature issues, that was the only thing left that I had changed in the system. I stopped laying the bead release on so thick and the cracking problem was solved.
Look for anything you are doing differently, not matter how inconsequential it might seem. Are you mixing different glasses? Are you making different items than you did previously. Little things can make a difference.
Brad
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2009-05-28, 1:36pm
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Resident Luny
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its probably the control board. I probably need a new $%$#@% kiln. Now, I am not sure what to get. I could just replace control board.....those are $250 and a new caldera is $600 ish.
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