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  #1  
Old 2013-04-11, 8:53am
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kikosun kikosun is offline
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Default Hothead to Lynx - too hot too soon?

Hi
I am still fairly new, but I have definitely gotten bitten by the lampworking bug! I have been working on a hothead with small tanks of MAPP gas, but I've begun to get really frustrated by that setup. It always seems to take a long time to melt glass on the hothead, and I hate running out of gas in the middle of a bead, which always seems to happen when I'm on a good bead! I have been on the hothead long enough to know that I will be sticking with this new hobby, and now I think it's time to move on.

I am currently amassing supplies to upgrade to a propane/oxygen system. I would like to use an oxygen concentrator to avoid dealing with tanked oxygen, and decided to purchase an M15 from unlimited oxygen.

I am having a harder time deciding on the torch. I have my eye on the GTT Lynx, and have done alot of research here and on other websites. I am currently making small beads with soft glass, but I would like to branch out into boro, marbles, and small sculpture in the future. I would like to get a torch that would not limit my options. I am someone who likes to get the best equipment from the beginning, rather than upgrading to something that you might outgrow in a year or two and having to upgrade again a short time later. From my research, it seems to me that the Lynx might be the torch that would be suitable for my intended purposes for the rest of my hobby career. I've read that people who have purchased larger two stage torches like the Phantom end up using the Lynx center flame 90% of the time anyway.

My question is - do you think a jump from Hothead to Lynx is too big, and are there any cons to working too hot too soon? I am sure there will be a steep learning curve. It seems that the Lynx especially has such a large variety of flame characteristics that will take a while to master. But my rationale is if I upgrade to a Minor or Mini CC, then a few years later want to upgrade to the Lynx anyway, it might be better in the long run to just learn on the Lynx from the start.

One other question I had is regarding the Lynx's focused flame. I like the option of having a pinpoint flame for detailed work. But it seems like the one thing that some people dislike about the Lynx is that it lacks a bushy flame for insurance heat to the rest of the bead. Have people who have been using the Lynx found this to be a problem at all? Or is it ok once you've mastered the dynamics of the flame?
From what I've read, the Lynx should work on an M15 concentrator - correct me if I'm wrong. I've read it works better on two, so my plan was to add a second when I get comfortable with the flame on one concentrator.


Thanks for the help. This community has been a great resource for me!
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  #2  
Old 2013-04-11, 9:11am
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Lorraine Chandler Lorraine Chandler is offline
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If you can get to a glass school or store that has different torches to try or another lampworker that will let you try their lynx that will help you decide.

You can also just go for it and always sell it here if you don't like it and try a different torch. You can do this until you find the one you love. You may buy and sell half a dozen before you find the right one.

Have fun with the journey.
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  #3  
Old 2013-04-11, 9:28am
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Making the jump to a bigger torch is just practice and learning the new flame characteristics. If you're prepared to put in the time for that, then it won't be a problem. Keep in mind that people get new torches and are still learning about them a year later, even with constant use. So, just don't get frustrated - the people here will help you out with any issues you have regardless of what torch you jump to. I started out on a borrowed WildCat and now have a Bravo. The big difference I've noticed is the heat difference. I really have to keep in mind that this Bravo is pumping out BTUs that I'm not used to.

Here's a recent thread that may be of interest:
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=243251

When you buy the Lynx, you pay a premium for the Triple-Mix. If the extra flames you get from it aren't real important to you, then there are cheaper torches that are in the same "class" as far as what they will melt. I cite the Alpha in the other thread; It's the centerfire of my Bravo. It can make a serious pinpoint flame, for sure. But, it also doesn't get as bushy of a flame as I would like w/o me turning on the outer fire. From your research, it sounds like you have read the same about the Lynx.

If the M15 really _will_ run the Lynx just fine, including the extra O2, and the Triple-Mix is important to you, then it's probably a good torch for you. You could jump up to a Phantom and you'd be OK, because you can start out with just using the Lynx centerfire. If the Triple-Mix isn't important, then an Alpha or torch by another company that's comparable will be fine and net you some extra $$$ that you can spend on tools and glass - or a bigger concentrator.

The M15 is what I would be wondering about. I run a M20 on my Bravo's centerfire ( the Alpha ) and am not sure I'd be happy running it off of an M15. Your research shows that it should work, though, so you might be OK. The torches are being designed to run better off of concentrators, now. There are Lynx users here who will probably chime in to give their input. You definitely don't want to drop the $$$ on a concentrator and torch and find out that you're not happy with the O2 throughput. I'd be worrying much more about that than whether you're ready for the jump.

I mean, how can you NOT be ready for a bigger torch! It's more FIRE! Muhahahahaha...

It would be nice if you can get your hands on a Lynx to test out, especially on a concentrator.

Good luck and keep us up-to-date on your decision.

-BEP
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  #4  
Old 2013-04-11, 9:31am
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikosun View Post
I am currently amassing supplies to upgrade to a propane/oxygen system. I would like to use an oxygen concentrator to avoid dealing with tanked oxygen, and decided to purchase an M15 from unlimited oxygen.
If you are concerned about performance, and it sounds like you are, re consider using tanked Oxy. The difference between tanked and medical concentrators if you are planning to work with Boro is quite significant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kikosun View Post


My question is - do you think a jump from Hothead to Lynx is too big, and are there any cons to working too hot too soon? I am sure there will be a steep learning curve. It seems that the Lynx especially has such a large variety of flame characteristics that will take a while to master. But my rationale is if I upgrade to a Minor or Mini CC, then a few years later want to upgrade to the Lynx anyway, it might be better in the long run to just learn on the Lynx from the start.

One other question I had is regarding the Lynx's focused flame. I like the option of having a pinpoint flame for detailed work. But it seems like the one thing that some people dislike about the Lynx is that it lacks a bushy flame for insurance heat to the rest of the bead. Have people who have been using the Lynx found this to be a problem at all? Or is it ok once you've mastered the dynamics of the flame?
No. You are not getting too much heat with the Lynx. The Lynx is a relatively small torch compared to what a lot of us use. It is capable of a wide range of flame types and chemistry and if you want to work small it does that no problem. I started on the Lynx. Shouldnt be an issue at all. Also, the Lynx is quite capable of soft bushy flames at least the equal of the other torches you mentioned. I think this myth is propagated on forums by those who dont really know how to use their triple mixes.
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  #5  
Old 2013-04-11, 9:39am
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Pickledkitty Pickledkitty is offline
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If you go the Lynx route, you will definitely need another oxygen concentrator. The minimum to work Boro for a GTT torch would be the Cricket, but for just a little more, the Bobcat can melt Boro faster. I work boro on a Bobcat with an M15, and it works great. At times I would like more oxygen to get a bigger flame that I know the torch is capable of, but would need tanked for that. I have tried the much bigger Carlisle CC torch at a class, and loved the ability to get a bigger flame when I wanted to melt in large amounts, but at least 50% of the time was spent working detail with the inner flame only.

A con for working too hot too soon in that you may not develop tight heat control, which is one of the biggest skills to know in this art. Having a hotter torch allows you to skip ahead with technique, but it is something that would need to come back to, to really learn. The bushy flame is not as neccesary with Boro, it is soooooo much more forgiving than soft glass is.

My next step in oxygen will be a Homefill setup, where you can easily and safely fill tanks yourself. There are many threads on it in this forum on how to do that, and it ends up being the best option for Boro, and allows freedom to upgrade torch-wise without worrying about not having enough oxygen to feed it.

All GTT's have a very high resale value, because of the unknown wait time it may take to get your order from them. I would go Bobcat until you have a homefilll setup and felt the need for a larger flame (1-3 years) and sell it after you got a Lynx if at that time it is still the best option for you. I'll be looking for a 15-20 year old Carlisle CC once I have unlimited oxygen, they can be picked up for $500-$800, and will last forever. (Not as good for soft glass though).

Have you ever melted boro before?
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  #6  
Old 2013-04-11, 11:11am
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kikosun kikosun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryC View Post
I think this myth is propagated on forums by those who dont really know how to use their triple mixes.
So about this comment - is there a good user tutorial out there that gives basic instruction on how to use a triple mix torch? or is it all trial and error once you have the torch in hand?
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  #7  
Old 2013-04-11, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickledkitty View Post
If you go the Lynx route, you will definitely need another oxygen concentrator. The minimum to work Boro for a GTT torch would be the Cricket, but for just a little more, the Bobcat can melt Boro faster. I work boro on a Bobcat with an M15, and it works great. At times I would like more oxygen to get a bigger flame that I know the torch is capable of, but would need tanked for that. I have tried the much bigger Carlisle CC torch at a class, and loved the ability to get a bigger flame when I wanted to melt in large amounts, but at least 50% of the time was spent working detail with the inner flame only.

A con for working too hot too soon in that you may not develop tight heat control, which is one of the biggest skills to know in this art. Having a hotter torch allows you to skip ahead with technique, but it is something that would need to come back to, to really learn. The bushy flame is not as neccesary with Boro, it is soooooo much more forgiving than soft glass is.

My next step in oxygen will be a Homefill setup, where you can easily and safely fill tanks yourself. There are many threads on it in this forum on how to do that, and it ends up being the best option for Boro, and allows freedom to upgrade torch-wise without worrying about not having enough oxygen to feed it.

All GTT's have a very high resale value, because of the unknown wait time it may take to get your order from them. I would go Bobcat until you have a homefilll setup and felt the need for a larger flame (1-3 years) and sell it after you got a Lynx if at that time it is still the best option for you. I'll be looking for a 15-20 year old Carlisle CC once I have unlimited oxygen, they can be picked up for $500-$800, and will last forever. (Not as good for soft glass though).

Have you ever melted boro before?
I am leaning towards the Lynx, possibly a Bobcat, but if and when I do buy the lynx, I probably will at least pick up another oxygen concentrator. I just don't like the idea of dealing with the expense and hassle of tanked oxygen.
I have not even considered a Homefill system. Thanks for mentioning that option Pickledkitty, I will look into it.

I haven't used boro yet. I took a flameworking class that used soft glass, and bought a hothead setup when I got into it. I haven't tried boro, since I don't think the hothead can melt boro. But I do anticipate using it in the future once I have the setup for it.
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  #8  
Old 2013-04-11, 11:34am
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Lisi Lisi is offline
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About your Hothead. Hang on to it because there are some beads you can make with it that you won't be able to get as nice results with when you try the same technique with a hotter torch. Sometimes too hot is just too hot.

I use a Bobcat with an industrial oxygen generator. I have 11 years experience with soft glass and some boro, and I still love the HH. It is wonderful for soft glass organic styles that use silvered ivory, and if you want to swirl different colors together for a marbled effect.

I tried making my marbled color beads and the silvered ivory types with the Bobcat and they just looked smeary and blehh...all the colors running together. Even with the heat turned way down and working way out in the end of the flame. The HH is slower but that certainly does not mean it's bad. Just like hotter is not always better.

If you want to upgrade to the oxy/propane set-up because you want melt soft glass faster and to do boro in the future, I think the Bobcat is a wise choice. You could always upgrade to the Lynx later. The Bobcat has been newly redesigned and it will be even better for boro.

http://www.glasstorchtech.com/bobcat.html

Here's another good place to get your oxygen concentrator.

http://www.pyronamix.com/Pyronamix/Welcome.html
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Last edited by Lisi; 2013-04-11 at 11:47am.
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  #9  
Old 2013-04-11, 11:50am
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikosun View Post
So about this comment - is there a good user tutorial out there that gives basic instruction on how to use a triple mix torch? or is it all trial and error once you have the torch in hand?
When I bought mine They shipped a DVD with it that taught the basics. More advanced use will have to be by experimentation. I dont know of any advanced tutorial available. There will be a learning curve with ANY setup you purchase and I think you will find that the best knowledge is that which you gain yourself through time and understanding of the tools and materials. I have had my Mirage (Lynx center) for almost two years now and I am still learning new things I can do with it. It really isnt rocket science but if your looking for easy maybe it would best to take up painting
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  #10  
Old 2013-04-11, 11:53am
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Oh, I just realized why you might be so frustrated with your HH! You are using the bottles, and no wonder! Have you ever tried bulk fuel? It's amazingly different than working with those 1lb bottles.

You would need to ask a local Airgas or welding shop for their MAPP equivalent. Usually that would be "propylene" and it comes in 30lb (27lb??) and 60lb tanks. Either is good, and they last a long time. My 30lb tank lasted 3 months and I was torching 4-6 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. You can hook up the torch using a 5ft or a 12ft BBQ tank hose. No regulator is needed.

This set-up is not as hot as oxy/propane, of course, but it's the reason a lot of HH users still use their torches.
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Last edited by Lisi; 2013-04-11 at 11:55am.
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  #11  
Old 2013-04-11, 1:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisi View Post
Oh, I just realized why you might be so frustrated with your HH! You are using the bottles, and no wonder! Have you ever tried bulk fuel? It's amazingly different than working with those 1lb bottles.

You would need to ask a local Airgas or welding shop for their MAPP equivalent. Usually that would be "propylene" and it comes in 30lb (27lb??) and 60lb tanks. Either is good, and they last a long time. My 30lb tank lasted 3 months and I was torching 4-6 hours a day, 5-6 days a week. You can hook up the torch using a 5ft or a 12ft BBQ tank hose. No regulator is needed.

This set-up is not as hot as oxy/propane, of course, but it's the reason a lot of HH users still use their torches.
Yeah I am using the 1lb bottles, and I hate it. They run out fast and always in the middle of a nice bead.
I considered getting bulk propylene, but I thought since I would be setting up a propane tank anyway, I should consider getting an oxygen solution too for a hotter torch. I definitely want a hotter torch, but I'll follow your recommendation and keep the hothead too.

I might have to get a bulk propylene set up on the hothead first anyway. I emailed Mountain Glass, and they dont have a Lynx in stock right now anyway, lead time indefinite. So now I'm thinking I'll either have to work on a Hothead until a Lynx is available, or buy a Bobcat if I can't wait that long...
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Old 2013-04-11, 1:52pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Try Malcolm at Artcoinc.com. He had them in stock a week or two ago. He is also the best retailer in the industry.
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Old 2013-04-11, 8:12pm
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MistyCherie MistyCherie is offline
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I loved my HH and I loved my Lynx when I upgraded to it. I did not do boro, but I did buy two oxycons "just in case". The one pound tanks are annoying and get old fast. I switched to BBQ grill size tank with some nice hose and that was soooooo much better (before the Lynx upgrade).
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Currently... torch is cold. Not sure when I'll be making glass again. Hothead and Lynx user.
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Old 2013-04-12, 12:26pm
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Try Malcolm at Artcoinc.com. He had them in stock a week or two ago. He is also the best retailer in the industry.
Thanks LarryC! I contacted Malcolm and he has 3 left. He seems to be the only distributor that has any in stock. I just placed an order for a new Lynx! Yay!
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Old 2013-04-12, 2:38pm
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Thanks LarryC! I contacted Malcolm and he has 3 left. He seems to be the only distributor that has any in stock. I just placed an order for a new Lynx! Yay!
Congrats! Malcolm is the best.
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Old 2013-04-12, 4:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikosun View Post
Thanks LarryC! I contacted Malcolm and he has 3 left. He seems to be the only distributor that has any in stock. I just placed an order for a new Lynx! Yay!
Grats on the torch. I think there's a rule that you have to post a pic of it when you get it *wink* And, of course, the first couple things you make with it!

-BEP
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Old 2013-04-13, 8:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kikosun View Post
Thanks LarryC! I contacted Malcolm and he has 3 left. He seems to be the only distributor that has any in stock. I just placed an order for a new Lynx! Yay!
The good thing about Malcolm is fast shipping. You'll probably have it in two days. Congrats.
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Old 2013-04-13, 8:54am
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Thanks for everyone's input and suggestions! I'll see if I make any beads I think are worth posting. I'm kind of shy about that, haha! I can't wait to get my hands on the new torch though!
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Old 2013-04-13, 9:07am
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Oh just an FYI. I ordered a lynx from malcolm a few months back and it did NOT come with the dvd Larry mentioned so you may want to check online for some video's/threads on firing up the triple mix torches. If you search in this forum there are lots of posts about using a Lynx. Good luck.
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Old 2013-04-16, 11:30am
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Quote:
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Oh just an FYI. I ordered a lynx from malcolm a few months back and it did NOT come with the dvd Larry mentioned so you may want to check online for some video's/threads on firing up the triple mix torches. If you search in this forum there are lots of posts about using a Lynx. Good luck.
GTT supplies the DVD with the larger torches .... Phantom or larger. You can purchase the DVD by itself if you want.

Malcolm
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Old 2013-04-17, 1:25pm
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GTT supplies the DVD with the larger torches .... Phantom or larger. You can purchase the DVD by itself if you want.

Malcolm
Sorry. If I still have mine from my Mirage, Kikosun may have it. I will send a message when I get a chance to check around for it.
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Old 2013-04-17, 1:42pm
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I got the Lynx in the mail and unpacked it yesterday, I am so pleased with Malcolm's customer service! He really is the best!

I have yet to make anything on it, I'm still waiting for the propane regulator and hoses and stuff I ordered to make my transition to the new torch. I can't wait to get started though! Thanks for everybody's suggestions and input. I really value having all this expertise in one place

If you still have your DVD LarryC, I'd love to take a look at it. Thanks for offering!
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  #23  
Old 2013-04-23, 7:31am
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Congratulations!

You can indeed work a Lynx on a single concentrator, it just isn't using the torch's full potential and will be a lot slower than if you had two small machines or a single large one. That might work out to your advantage right now while transitioning from a Hot Head. I went from a Hot Head to a Lynx and it didn't take very long to get familiar with it. I borrowed the instructional video from someone and watched it a few times, and that helped. It is posted on YouTube, so you can also watch it on-line.

Just because a torch is capable of producing a lot of heat doesn't mean you have to run it that way. You can run a soft, cool flame on the Lynx. Here's my suggestion:
Light your propane and get a yellow flame about 4"-6" long.
Turn on the green oxygen valve and adjust your flame (using propane and oxygen valves) to get a flame that has candles (the little blue jets) that are between 1/4" and 3/8" or so long. If those candles are at 1/4" (which is about as long as a typical rod of Effetre is wide) or shorter, you want to make sure that they are all blue and that there are no white/yellow tips on the ends.
Crack open the blue valve just a little bit. The more you open the blue valve, the sharper the flame will be and you don't want that just yet. For now, keep it just cracked open and work with a fluffy, cooler flame.
The sweet spot in the flame is going to be somewhere around 3-4" from the face of the torch (+/- a bit, depends on how long your candles are). Work a bit further out than that where it is cooler to start and as you get more comfortable with the heat, slowly move in closer to the sweet spot.

I would suggest playing with the torch valves to see what kind of flames you can dial in before putting glass in from of it.
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