What is Devardi glass???

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by miahawk

I don't regret bringing up questions about safety. considering how much crap people get over setting up their studios without doing the proper research, for being considered idiots when they damage their eyesight by not using the right protective eyewear, then the possibility of brain damage or death from improper ventilation, hearing damage from loud ventilation, etc. I'm stunned that because it's happening in a factory overseas, safety is not a concern.

Thank you! Heck people get called idiots, stupid, etc in safety threads about ventilation and eyewear....not to mention propane storage and use !

[miahawk]

Originally Posted by Wiley

Thank you! Heck people get called idiots, stupid, etc in safety threads about ventilation and eyewear....not to mention propane storage and use !

oh yeah, thanks for reminding my about the propane use! I'd forgotten that one, despite all the lectures I've seen on it. it should all be so obvious for us "free world" people.

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by debkauz

How did this get form a thread about the glass and working conditions to a 'let us now shred Kalera's ass' thread? Kalera has asked a lot of reasonable questions and I, for one, appreciate what she's done. Because of how Daniel and Natasha handled their responses to questions asked, I won't be buying any of their glass.

Kalera is not the only who asked questions. There were several people who asked questions including myself.

As I mentioned several pages back...since when did ask questions become such a problem? I have seen suppliers and vendors asked questions before....but now....I guess you can't ask questions anymore!

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by Lizabeads

Squid...

I guess they could be getting censored for deleting posts. All I know is that I was told by them they are being censored. All their posts have to be approved. I guess they were told that. I'm very disapointed in the decision on this. Seems to me the wrong ones are being censored. After all they are the ones that were being attacked and now THEY are censored?
I admire Daniel for defending his wife for whatever reason he feels it necessary. I can only imagine how they feel and what LE looks like to them. This has nothing to do with whether or not I will play with the glass. Is there harm in playing with the glass until we know more? I think not.

I have to wonder....I seem to remember another husband coming to LE to defend his wife.

Boy was that a different story.... Then he was controlling, scary, etc. Now everyone understands it.

I get really confused with the "rules"....how the same actions "defending ones spouse/partner" is OK in one instance but way out of line in another. I'm sure that's a topic for another thread though....

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by J&M

By calling him an "asshole"? At least I'm not revealing any names of the ones who wrote those nasty comments. That's not a "discussion" as far as I'm concerned. JMHO

Look around...this forum ... the 5 or 6 other glass forums.... people call people names sometimes. It happens. It happens in life. It happens here.

As far as I'm concerned a lot of YOUR comments in this thread have not been a "discussion". Of course also just MHO.

[pam]

You can ask questions, Robin, just make sure your skin is thick enough that you won't be hurt by the false accusations, misinterpretations, veiled threats, childish name calling, reports to mom, etc. that erupt whenever you do.

Kalera, I am very sorry that a lot of this has seemed to be directed at you today and yesterday. I don't believe you deserve what has been said. I have seen you be nothing but honest and direct and courteous in your questions and in the answers that you have given.

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by pam

You can ask questions, Robin, just make sure your skin is thick enough that you won't be hurt by the false accusations, misinterpretations, veiled threats, childish name calling, reports to mom, etc. that erupt whenever you do.

Kalera, I am very sorry that a lot of this has seemed to be directed at you today and yesterday. I don't believe you deserve what has been said. I have seen you be nothing but honest and direct and courteous in your questions and in the answers that you have given.

Yep. When I ask questions I should expect people's pity (I say again ... don't pity me...just pray!!) Sorry...I still think that's really funny!!

OH! And if I ask a vendor a question I will remember that I am not a customer or potential customer...no, no! I'm competition who wants to import myself, or I get paid for testing glass (nobody has told me yet though who does that??? I really want to find out so I can be a tester!!); or maybe I sell other brands of glass! And don't forget to look at my website (that I don't have) to see all the stuff made in other countries that I sell.

Nope ... not a potential customer. Not a forum filled with potential customers...who also visit the other 5 or 6 glass forums and talks to friends there....Nope I'm only "competition" - the only reason people ask questions.

And just in case anyone forgot.... I have said several times that I am a glass 'ho and probably would have eventually got some of this glass. Why wouldn't I have if the questions had been answered?

Why won't I know? Because of the actions of the vendor (nice way to talk to the customer base); and I know that they import from Dev glass...at this moment in time I will not support them. Hopefully someday the conditions there will improve and perhaps then I will see about trying it.

[Kalera]

Thanks Pam and Robin! And Mia, my sister, for sticking up for me against some of the false statements made about me.

I just really hope that people will be able to ask questions and even be skeptical of new vendors and new products without all the accusations and condemnation. A lot of people asked really good questions. Yes, some of them were in uncomfortable territory, but they had good reasons to ask.

Other vendors have faced some really tough questions, and for the most part, if they were being truthful and straightforward, came out of it really well. Over the years I've seen several vendors who became angry and defensive when questioned turn out to be shady, in some cases even taking money and not deliver the goods in a timely manner, or sometimes at all.

Evasiveness is a red flag for me, as is defensiveness.

[debkauz]

I have to kind of laugh at the 'asshole' statement too. Someone may have said it once on another forum but *someone* sure had to quote it over and over, didn't he? Seems to me Jim said asshole a whole lot more times than anyone else. LOL


I doubt sincerely I would've purchased the glass because of the evasiveness that was showed in the answers on this thread. I can't knowingly support a company that has workers in that situation. I doubt if they make $20-$25 a day. Maybe a year? After some of the rest of what I've seen I can almost guarantee that this glass will never make it into my rack. Thanks but no thanks. Don't put down other glass to try to make your questionable glass look better.

[Bright-eyed Beads]

Whoa!!! 32 pages of discussion since I last looked. In all this forum stuff, just like emails and text messages, so much more room for misunderstandings and all that goes with that. Sometimes I wonder if it is worth it when a traditional conversation face to face, seems to be able to work things out better. That is my experience, especially when people use shorthand that others don't understand,

Jenny

[Asil4]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I just really hope that people will be able to ask questions and even be skeptical of new vendors and new products without all the accusations and condemnation. A lot of people asked really good questions. Yes, some of them were in uncomfortable territory, but they had good reasons to ask.

Worded differently it could say: "I just really hope that vendors with new products we be able to answer questions without all the accusations and condemnation."

Other vendors have faced some really tough questions, and for the most part, if they were being truthful and straightforward, came out of it really well. Over the years I've seen several vendors who became angry and defensive when questioned turn out to be shady, in some cases even taking money and not deliver the goods in a timely manner, or sometimes at all.

The sins of some should not automatically be assumed for others. The original questions asked were, in my opinion and the opinion of others, were delivered with suspicion. It's no wonder folks become defensive.

Some here seem to think that they can demand whatever they want of others because they are rock stars and they are the customer!

In this instance, questions were asked and the answers that were given were not sufficient for some. That was my take and, it's a matter of perception, no matter who is doing the perceiving.

For those who say they care so much for the glass community as a whole and, all they are doing is looking out for the greater good of that community. I have to wonder- at what cost? I wonder if any of you have thought about the overall damage being done to the glass community as a whole, to have a witch hunt every few months, wherein human beings are hung from a tree?

As part of the glass community, if this is the price to be paid; that people are trashed and insulted alienated, I would cast my vote not to have a group out there "protecting me."

[Wiley]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalera
I just really hope that people will be able to ask questions and even be skeptical of new vendors and new products without all the accusations and condemnation. A lot of people asked really good questions. Yes, some of them were in uncomfortable territory, but they had good reasons to ask.

Originally Posted by Asil4

Worded differently it could say: "I just really hope that vendors with new products we be able to answer questions without all the accusations and condemnation."

However that is NOT what she said.

[Lizabeads]

Originally Posted by Wiley

I have to wonder....I seem to remember another husband coming to LE to defend his wife.

Boy was that a different story.... Then he was controlling, scary, etc. Now everyone understands it.

I get really confused with the "rules"....how the same actions "defending ones spouse/partner" is OK in one instance but way out of line in another. I'm sure that's a topic for another thread though....

If I am thinking of the right "husband" and "wife" situation I don't recall posting in that thread or saying that. Save me the time of looking it up and tell me if I did..lol Also, I think that was a TOTALLY different situation. Natasha has done nothing "ugly" to anyone. She wasn't using an alias that made anyone want to "out" her. I think that was very different. You know what I mean? Some just couldn't stand the fact that they didn't know who someone was and when they did find out it was like they found a pot of gold. They couldn't wait to expose them.

[pam]

"For those who say they care so much for the glass community as a whole and, all they are doing is looking out for the greater good of that community. I have to wonder- at what cost? I wonder if any of you have thought about the overall damage being done to the glass community as a whole, to have a witch hunt every few months, wherein human beings are hung from a tree? "

Lisa, I'm guessing that one was directed at me. If you had been in this community over the last 20 years you would have seen and experienced so many businesses come in with questionable products and questionable practices that it would make you more questioning perhaps than those who have not experienced it. It has sometimes broken my heart when I have seen what some people have bought into, and to tell you the truth, it's mostly the newer glass beadmakers who don't have enough experience yet to know better. So what happens is that a lot of the more experienced beadmakers turn a blind eye to what is happening and just let the new people fend for themselves. I really am sorry if I have offended you in any way. I truly did not mean to do that.

[Lizabeads]

I don't think it was so much that questions were being asked it was more like "how many" people were jumping on the wagon at once. Which tends to make one feel attacked or bombarded. So again, I think it was more a problem with how many and how it was worded.

[honey*bee]

WTF happened??? I just checked back to see if this glass was any good and skipped to the last page and wow imagine my suprise! So...um... should this thread be renamed??? It's a good thing I wasn't new and this was the first thread I came across, I'd think it was a bunch of meanies here!! LOL Sorry just trying to add a little lightheartedness to the topic. I LOVE LE and all the LE'ERS!!

[BeadMaven]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I just can't understand how you got here from there. You completely called me out by name. These are not general comments. I rebutted them and now you say I took comments that weren't directed at me, and made them about me? There is no way these comments are not about me. You used my NAME. They're very specific, and wrong.

I am upset and angry and really don't know what to make of your denial.

Those specific posts were directed towards you since you were the one who came in and gave the info you did. I pushed the issue. The rest of my posts were not and yet you seem to think I am blaming all this on you and I am not.

Again, my apologies for engaging. I knew better.

To be sure its known this is a general opinion ATM:

Not one person has acknowledged my posts that D & N have been hurt in any
way (and they were) and ignoring that fact doesn't negate that fact. This ignorance and pious attitude confirms makes it appear there was intent since there has been nothing stated otherwise and the added ugly, mocking comments further established that in my mind. Now we are down to name calling again and insinuations. This isn't a discussion its just immature BS is all this is.

[Wiley]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiley
I have to wonder....I seem to remember another husband coming to LE to defend his wife.

Boy was that a different story.... Then he was controlling, scary, etc. Now everyone understands it.

I get really confused with the "rules"....how the same actions "defending ones spouse/partner" is OK in one instance but way out of line in another. I'm sure that's a topic for another thread though....

Originally Posted by Lizabeads

If I am thinking of the right "husband" and "wife" situation I don't recall posting in that thread or saying that. Save me the time of looking it up and tell me if I did..lol Also, I think that was a TOTALLY different situation. Natasha has done nothing "ugly" to anyone. She wasn't using an alias that made anyone want to "out" her. I think that was very different. You know what I mean? Some just couldn't stand the fact that they didn't know who someone was and when they did find out it was like they found a pot of gold. They couldn't wait to expose them.

Sorry Liza...didn't mean it to sound like YOU said anything in that thread. Whoops, I should have been more clear.

Perhaps you have a point...it was a different situation. I still don't agree with the comments made about/to that husband but I see your point.

Sorry again! Really didn't mean to imply you had said anything...I don't think you did anyway.

[pam]

I believe I have stated several times that I am sorry Daniel and Natasha have been hurt. I honestly believe they went into this with the best of intentions and little real knowledge. I think their initial description of their glass was disparaging to all the other glass companies, which didn't sit well with some people. It does make it somewhat hard to have loads of sympathy when their response in this thread was to attack and make representations about people that were untrue, and in fact are still making such representations on the Devardi website.

[Wiley]

Originally Posted by BeadMaven

....

Not one person has acknowledged my posts that D & N have been hurt in any
way (and they were) and ignoring that fact doesn't negate that fact. This ignorance and pious attitude confirms makes it appear there was intent since there has been nothing stated otherwise and the added ugly, mocking comments further established that in my mind. Now we are down to name calling again and insinuations. This isn't a discussion its just immature BS is all this is.

I do believe that they probably did/may still feel bad about this whole situation. Things could have been handled better....on all sides.

We have seen other new vendors come in and handle questions in a polite, open, forthright manner....IMHO that did not happen here. I have had questions about this glass since the very first time I looked at the auction and they were putting down other glasses on the market.... but I was still interested. Over and over again I have said how much I love glass in all forms and brands. Too bad this was handled better.

By all.

[Asil4]

Originally Posted by pam

Lisa, I'm guessing that one was directed at me. If you had been in this community over the last 20 years you would have seen and experienced so many businesses come in with questionable products and questionable practices that it would make you more questioning perhaps than those who have not experienced it. It has sometimes broken my heart when I have seen what some people have bought into, and to tell you the truth, it's mostly the newer glass beadmakers who don't have enough experience yet to know better. So what happens is that a lot of the more experienced beadmakers turn a blind eye to what is happening and just let the new people fend for themselves. I really am sorry if I have offended you in any way. I truly did not mean to do that.

No, Pam- it wasn't directed at you specifically. You weren't the only person who used that wording.

I totally understand the history and your protectiveness and all those things that may have come about in the past. It's the manner in which it is handled. I've seen it several times and, I've spoken with people who have been on the receiving end of it. In this case in particular, the person asking about the glass was grilled and all sorts of speculation was brought up and he was treated very poorly. And, not by you.

I don't have a problem with skepticism. It's the "bull in the china shop" methods that are used in the process and the rapid fire questions and demanding of immediate answers that I have a problem with. And, if folks don't respond fast enough, it "creates a red flag" and it builds and builds until some others speak up in defense. The tone is set and the whole thing blows.

Do you believe that those folks who are brave enough to wade into these waters and speak up, are doing so because they are bored? No- they see a reason to DEFEND. And, many times at great risk themselves. Once they do that, it adds to the whole thing and they are labeled as "rabid supporters." Rabid. That is an acceptable way to describe a fellow glass worker?

Do you speak up against that- to the people who are doing it? Some folks around here seem to think that if they believe they are a famous bead maker, they can treat others any way they'd like. And, some of them do. For some it comes across in a tone that is defensive when there is no need for it.

I believe there is a way to obtain the answers to the questions folks may have without annihilating anyone in the process. It's call respect and it's sorely lacking for some.

There is a big difference between turning a blind eye and removing someone else's in an effort not to.

You haven't offended me, Pam.

[Damselfly]

Originally Posted by pam

...just make sure your skin is thick enough that you won't be hurt by the false accusations, misinterpretations, veiled threats, childish name calling, reports to mom, etc. that erupt whenever you do.

Actually, I've seen a lot of that directed at the owners of the company and anyone who stuck up for them as well.

The rest of this is a general discussion of what happened as I see it:

What's bothered me the most about the trend this thread has taken (as others have taken), is the need to assume the worst about people. And I'm not directing that statement at any one person or at any one side of the argument.

But from my perspective, we had someone ask about a new type of glass. The importers came here to discuss it, and were asked hard questions. When they couldn't answer as completely or as quickly as people wanted, or when they wanted to keep some of their contacts private for the time being, their motives and their ethics were called into question. Assumptions were made, not only about their product, but also their business practices and their character. An elaborate sleuthing of names, bills of lading, factory images was conducted and dissected without any respect towards them, as well as the discussion of child labor/bondage with no proof that was occurring, all tied to the statements saying that without proof, we have to assume that's what's happening.

Let's take Kalera's source at face value, who says they've toured that particular plant and says that no child labor is occurring. Well, there's one belabored assumption that's been discredited, but the damage has already been done and has been repeated ad nausium.

So now if continue that Kalera's source said that factory wasn't up to US standards, we could debate the merits of jobs available to the desperately poor in India, and what jobs people there want/choose to do, and how much they're paid, and what's safer than what other job or lifestyle they'd be resigned to, but that really isn't about this company or even about this product. This batch of glass is not going to change the situation in India whether you buy it or not.

You can choose to buy it, or not buy it, based on your personal preference, or even your personal ethics.

But it wasn't left at that. It was discussed whether it should be allowed in our industry, whether beads made from it would be inferior and shouldn't be labled as "first rate". Which means scrutiny passes from just this couple importing the glass, and has implications for anyone who even purchases it. Now others get to decide what is considered "first rate" beads???

And then there's all the people who want to "educate" the public about the ethics or dangers of this glass or why they'd never make beads with it, all based on pure assumption with very little specific, concrete evidence of this product to back it up.

and when all of that proved to be a little too much for the new couple, who were only trying to start a business, and to my viewpoint, they felt attacked (I wonder why!) - the husband felt like he had to defend his wife and his company, and god forbid, he acted human and posted his side as he saw it. Was he wrong about some of his own assumptions? I'm sure he was, but then again, so were those who cried "child labor".

So yes, he was human and made a mistake and probably posted when he shouldn't have. But I've seen countless rants and ill advised posts by many many many people here, and I, for one, don't judge people on isolated instances. I was hoping I wasn't alone.

But now there's the implication that anyone (and specifically that couple, since it's in this conversation) who is defensive or evasive, is shady or untrustworthy. And dont' tell me that's not a inference to them, because it obviously is.

So now you all get to judge everyone's character based on whether or not they tell you everything you want to know? What about all those threads about how inappropriate it was to ask how someone makes a bead and how they dont' have to answer if they dont' want to, or they don't even have to tell you what colors they used if they dont' want to???? People keep crying "respect!!" but it's applied unevenly and the rules are bent depending on people's whims.

This dissecting of people and their motivations, and the damage that people willingly (and with direct intent) do to reputations, based on pure speculation.... it's really frightening. And what's even more frightening is that those people doing it feel justified and even righteous.

It doesn't take hardly anything these days, to be torn apart.

[Lizabeads]

AMEN
What a truely enlightening post from the heart. I agree 100% with you. We are too quick to judge people and their actions.
I also wonder, because I have not seen it stated anywhere if some of the problems with the explainations given could be related to the possibility of english not being her first language. What I'm asking is does anyone know if Natasha is from another country? Seems that I saw it mentioned but not just flat out said. If that is the case, if she is not from the U.S. originally then some of the conversation could be lost in translation. We could also be insulting the way she was raised, her beliefs. I for one no matter what differences I might have in how this country is run would be totally pissed and insulted if someone started downing the U.S. I'm just trying to explain my thoughts on this whole mess. I would hope and think that the people I know on here were big enough to appologize for "how" they worded something if it hurt someone this bad. Not what they believe but how it was taken. Pam you have explained and appologized several times and I appreciate it. I have always respected your opinion and felt you worded things correctly and knew when to shut up. LOL

Originally Posted by Damselfly

Actually, I've seen a lot of that directed at the owners of the company and anyone who stuck up for them as well.

The rest of this is a general discussion of what happened as I see it:

What's bothered me the most about the trend this thread has taken (as others have taken), is the need to assume the worst about people. And I'm not directing that statement at any one person or at any one side of the argument.

But from my perspective, we had someone ask about a new type of glass. The importers came here to discuss it, and were asked hard questions. When they couldn't answer as completely or as quickly as people wanted, or when they wanted to keep some of their contacts private for the time being, their motives and their ethics were called into question. Assumptions were made, not only about their product, but also their business practices and their character. An elaborate sleuthing of names, bills of lading, factory images was conducted and dissected without any respect towards them, as well as the discussion of child labor/bondage with no proof that was occurring, all tied to the statements saying that without proof, we have to assume that's what's happening.

Let's take Kalera's source at face value, who says they've toured that particular plant and says that no child labor is occurring. Well, there's one belabored assumption that's been discredited, but the damage has already been done and has been repeated ad nausium.

So now if continue that Kalera's source said that factory wasn't up to US standards, we could debate the merits of jobs available to the desperately poor in India, and what jobs people there want/choose to do, and how much they're paid, and what's safer than what other job or lifestyle they'd be resigned to, but that really isn't about this company or even about this product. This batch of glass is not going to change the situation in India whether you buy it or not.

You can choose to buy it, or not buy it, based on your personal preference, or even your personal ethics.

But it wasn't left at that. It was discussed whether it should be allowed in our industry, whether beads made from it would be inferior and shouldn't be labled as "first rate". Which means scrutiny passes from just this couple importing the glass, and has implications for anyone who even purchases it. Now others get to decide what is considered "first rate" beads???

And then there's all the people who want to "educate" the public about the ethics or dangers of this glass or why they'd never make beads with it, all based on pure assumption with very little specific, concrete evidence of this product to back it up.

and when all of that proved to be a little too much for the new couple, who were only trying to start a business, and to my viewpoint, they felt attacked (I wonder why!) - the husband felt like he had to defend his wife and his company, and god forbid, he acted human and posted his side as he saw it. Was he wrong about some of his own assumptions? I'm sure he was, but then again, so were those who cried "child labor".

So yes, he was human and made a mistake and probably posted when he shouldn't have. But I've seen countless rants and ill advised posts by many many many people here, and I, for one, don't judge people on isolated instances. I was hoping I wasn't alone.

But now there's the implication that anyone (and specifically that couple, since it's in this conversation) who is defensive or evasive, is shady or untrustworthy. And dont' tell me that's not a inference to them, because it obviously is.

So now you all get to judge everyone's character based on whether or not they tell you everything you want to know? What about all those threads about how inappropriate it was to ask how someone makes a bead and how they dont' have to answer if they dont' want to, or they don't even have to tell you what colors they used if they dont' want to???? People keep crying "respect!!" but it's applied unevenly and the rules are bent depending on people's whims.

This dissecting of people and their motivations, and the damage that people willingly (and with direct intent) do to reputations, based on pure speculation.... it's really frightening. And what's even more frightening is that those people doing it feel justified and even righteous.

It doesn't take hardly anything these days, to be torn apart.

[moondanse]

I love ya, Robin. Keep asking the tough questions and standing up for what you believe in. I'm even breaking my own "self-imposed rule" to say so!

[Lizabeads]

Hey, that's ok! I didn't think you were talking specifically to me so I thought I would ask. LOL

Originally Posted by Wiley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiley
I have to wonder....I seem to remember another husband coming to LE to defend his wife.

Boy was that a different story.... Then he was controlling, scary, etc. Now everyone understands it.

I get really confused with the "rules"....how the same actions "defending ones spouse/partner" is OK in one instance but way out of line in another. I'm sure that's a topic for another thread though....




Sorry Liza...didn't mean it to sound like YOU said anything in that thread. Whoops, I should have been more clear.

Perhaps you have a point...it was a different situation. I still don't agree with the comments made about/to that husband but I see your point.

Sorry again! Really didn't mean to imply you had said anything...I don't think you did anyway.

[DesertDreamer]

Originally Posted by NMLinda

For what it's worth, someone on TB discovered that there is a Devardi website:

http://www.devardiglass.com

I don't know how satisfied this group will be upon reading it, but it's now out there for your consideration.

I think it's important to note that their site wasn't a big dark secret. Natasha mentioned it early on, and I was supplied the same link in my "thank you for ordering" email from her. The first paragraph is new, but the rest of the info has been there since she first posted it (about 1/19-20, I think). I've had the bookmark on my list since then.

[mandalinn]

Well I can for sure attest to this thread not being a "plant"...I am the OP and I have never tried Devardi glass and knew nothing about it, except for finding it on Ebay.

I really don't know how to take any of this and just have to say that threads like this scare the heck out of those of us who are new-er here.

[cinders]

Originally Posted by miahawk

well, I did think he was just a helpful guy with his heart in the right place, and even after that accusation, I'd still like to think he's just a nice guy who's been dragged into something nasty and has been duped by a shyster.

some people seem to think if I do something, my sister is part of it. be assured, I do what I want. we're two separate people.

I am a strong supporter of American manufacturing, as I worked for 34 years at a factory before my job was sent to Mexico and to Hong Kong this past year. We could no longer compete with the lower wage scale, and the lack of benefits given to the foreign workers. That being said I buy Bullseye glass to hopefully help to keep Bullseye here in the States, and because of the obvious quality.

But, I do not think that calling someone a shyster is necessary and seems quite juvenile to say the least. American corporations have been exploiting
3rd world countries for quite sometime. It seems to me that Daniel and Natasha were only buying a product that was already being produced, and if they hadn't purchased it someone else would have eventually. I really don't see how the term shyster fits into the scenario. Do any of you honestly think that if the current wholesale buyers had not bought this particular shipment of glass that the Indian supplier would no longer be making glass??

Carry on! I now will go back to lurking and reading.

[Asil4]

damselfly- very well said!!!

I was here months ago when a young woman who had been featured in a magazine was absolutely trashed here. She is young and she made a mistake in her wording. She apologized. Did that matter? Nope- the attacks kept coming and I sat on the phone with her while she was crying and totally devastated by the whole thing. The apology wasn't enough. It seemed they wanted her blood. Some were absolutely cruel.

She left and I doubt she's been back. She was supposed to be going to a bead show in the upcoming weeks and she was terrified to do so. I don't know if she ever went.

She was a fellow lampworker. A human being and, a young one at that. Someone who makes mistakes. None of that mattered. A pound of flesh, did.

[honey*bee]

Originally Posted by mandalinn

Well I can for sure attest to this thread not being a "plant"...I am the OP and I have never tried Devardi glass and knew nothing about it, except for finding it on Ebay.

I really don't know how to take any of this and just have to say that threads like this scare the heck out of those of us who are new here.

I agree. I know that there are some really great people here and that is why I try to lighten the mood. Nobody asked but I'm gonna give it...
MHO...
What is the point to this? All that is happening is back and forth over the PC, talented people getting angry at others and sore fingers! Everyone is entitled to their opinions but just like my daddy always says opinions are like assholes... everyone's got one and they all stink! Except mine, it smells like roses! LOL

Really though what is the point to all of this, what will be accomplished? After 30 someodd pages of harshness isn't it about time to just back slowly away from the computer and make some beads!!