Where did Ivory Blush go?

Mary K · #1 2010-08-31, 9:25pm

I am running out of Ivory Blush (GA) and it does
not seem to be available. I usually order from
ABR and I do not see it there. I saw on the GA site that
they have something called "Peachy Keen", but they are
the only source for it?
Anyone know who has some Ivory Blush? It is a color I
use a lot and when I ordered it last I got several pounds,
and it took me a while to go thru it. I make sea stars out of
it, it is the perfect color and consistency for them. Rats.
I hope I can find some, or something like it. Coral blush is
NOT the same.

menty666 · #2 2010-08-31, 9:38pm

wasn't that one of the glasstique/rev33 colors?

LyndaJ · #3 2010-09-01, 5:45am

yes, it was before my time, but it looks like a great color

todda · #4 2010-09-01, 6:35am

I have some - but I ordered it almost 2 years ago, glasstique color- I always ordered at least 2 lbs. of all thoes glasstique colors, haven't seen that one since. Ivory blush, Black ruby, Peach blush all were out around the same time, all good colors.

pipyr · #5 2010-09-01, 7:49am

I think we should keep pushing for them to bring back ivory blush. It's one of my favorites and I dread the day I run out.

Mary K · #6 2010-09-01, 7:54am

I will work on that Pipyr, I guess I can write to them.
Has anyone used that color " peachy keen" and know if it is
like ivory blush? it looks like it in the picture.

HWCGlass · #7 2010-09-03, 4:37pm

peachy keen = a persimmon strike that doesn't.

menty666 · #8 2010-09-03, 4:59pm

Didn't we have this conversation last year too? Seems familiar....

HWCGlass · #9 2010-09-03, 11:23pm

It's amazing how many colors "ain't what they was".

Mr. Smiley · #10 2010-09-04, 3:34am

It is Harold... and I've been talking to GA for a while now, trying to figure out how to get them back... They are trying... they listen... give them a call and talk to Thomas. I'm sure he would love your feedback.

HWCGlass · #11 2010-09-06, 8:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

It is Harold... and I've been talking to GA for a while now, trying to figure out how to get them back... They are trying... they listen... give them a call and talk to Thomas. I'm sure he would love your feedback.

God. I'm sure as hell the last thing those guys need is to talk to another person like me.

Mr. Smiley · #12 2010-09-06, 8:21am

Nope... you of all people should be giving direct feedback... i mean, nobody i know melts more glass that you H... and you've got some pretty honed deductive skills...

HWCGlass · #13 2010-09-06, 10:53am

They know what the deal is.

And if they don't . . . means they aren't paying attention or they don't care. Neither of which I believe to be true.

Chemistry. It's a bitch.

I can tell you which colors suck real quick. Solutions, though? Above my pay grade.

Mr. Smiley · #14 2010-09-06, 5:24pm

I have no idea what that means in this conversation... but cool... I know they have appreciated all the feedback I've given them. They don't work the glass they make full time... we're their sounding board. Telling them directly is really the only way to keep getting what we want. Communication is awesome... I'm glad the color companies listen.

Mary K · #15 2010-09-06, 8:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HWCGlass

They know what the deal is.

And if they don't . . . means they aren't paying attention or they don't care. Neither of which I believe to be true.

Chemistry. It's a bitch.

I can tell you which colors suck real quick. Solutions, though? Above my pay grade.

So.....which colors suck? I have not ordered glass in a while, &
I'm getting ready to, & can't afford to get some crap. I also think
the quality of glass has been suffering. Each time I order certain colors
I get completely different glass. Why is this? I must not be on the A list.

oldschooltofu · #16 2010-09-06, 9:08pm

i agree, call them and ask if they have any left, sometimes they do. if not they still have the recipe.

also if you really like a color you can try to ask for a full pot (about 30#), i know its a lot of glass, but if you need it in your production/art you will then have a lifetime supply and not have to worry about getting it ever again. i have a few colors/batches i have had one of the companies make me a full pot or i bought 10#+ to last me so i get the same consistency. then i have it for a long time. if its too much, try finding a few friends to split the pot with. they may even know a few other artists you can split the pot with.

when choosing colors to work with, if you buy experimentals:
1) if you like it after trying, buy as much as you can afford, because you may not get it again...get it while its available.
2) know that there is a limited supply, sell your art as a limited edtion color (and charge a little more), when its gone its gone.

HWCGlass · #17 2010-09-07, 12:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

Communication is awesome... I'm glad the color companies listen.

Of course they listen. But really, what are they gonna do for me?

They know if a new batch is not the same as previous batches; scientists write stuff down, they keep rods from previous pulls.

You don't need to use glass on a daily basis to be able to see that a good bit of boro color is SNAFU.

Like Caramel Luster. Seriously. Someone who knew nothing about glass could look at that color rod over the last three years and know there is no consistency. It's obvious.

The fact that they ship the rods, sell the rods and labels the rods as if there was no difference . . . The fact that they can rename their way out of the problem . . . these are all different discussions.

How many years can I call Susan and say, "this caramel luster is not caramel luster" until it stops being true? What is caramel luster? After all this time, who's to say?

I call them, tell them what I think. Then what? They suddenly realize that they have been forgetting to press the green button, thank me for my call and all is well?

Those dudes over at GA have a hard job. Same issues at NS and with MP too. The second coming of Paul hasn't changed anything either.

The quality, IMO, over the last 10 years has gotten a lot better. Unquestionably. However, in the last two years . . . things have either slid back or they were intentionally designed to piss me off.

Me personally I see these quality problems as being caused by the whiplash of competition.

When it was just Paul, his shit was the shit cause it was the only shit. People complained but, what were they gonna do?

Then came the onslaught and where there was one stood three . . . or four . . . . or five or six companies depending on how and when you want to count it.

So to make cash you had to be better. you had to make better shit. GA made better shit, no doubt, and they just clobbered NS.

Add a few years and we have lost some of those companies. Some like flies some like musical chairs. And these companies started thinking about making more shit, not better but more and different shit.

IMO, NS had issues to face and they did. With Paul and that new dude, NS quality was horrid and now, as far as the actual glass formulation goes, they are doing pretty good. They didn't turn their backs on long standing formulas and added dozens of new colors.

GA too has, in some tangible ways, left their stated founding path of predictability for that of innovation. They have expanded their circle of control and so now there are some considerable gaps in their front line.

They'll tighten it up. No doubt. It's just gonna take some time.

And other than give them all my money, there is little I can do. They are wicked smart over there at GA.

They can see they issues.

And if they can't . . . means they aren't paying attention or they don't care. Neither of which I believe to be true.

Chemistry. It's a bitch.

I can tell you which colors suck real quick. Solutions, though? Above my pay grade.

To summarize; the long-term quality problems in the boro color market are a function of both aggressively changing market conditions and the totally normal but painful practicalities of producing high-temp colored glasses - conditions wholly unaffected customer input.

Sorry for the long, rambling post . . . been burning those cadmium colors again.

menty666 · #18 2010-09-07, 7:28am

The problem though, is that if no one complains, they assume you're happy. If one person complains, ok...maybe they represent 20-30 customers. If 20-30 people complain about a color, though, then there's a definite groundswell of dissent.

I think you might be right that the competition has made things slide a little. For a while it was all about making new colors. Now it's less new colors and instead making custom tubing. That's nice and all, but for my money, aside from that alien tech prettiness I saw, I'd rather buy a pound of color and make my own, even though at the moment skillwise I can't. But I'm more likely to muck about with a pound of color than a pound of tubing because that stuff costs it's weight in gold.

But back to the colors...I think the staples get locked in recipe wise. Cobalt 6, Elvis Red, Paris Green, etc. But the other recipes get fiddled with to tweak for compatibility and color range, but also likely based on the cost of raw materials to keep production costs down on their end.

One of the things I love about the boro world is that it IS perfectly acceptable to ring up the manufacturer and let them know you're not happy with a particular color, and they're ok with that.

Try that with Hyundai. I'd love to yell at the douche that thought the apron over the engine in the Entourage was a good idea. But he's behind 30-40 layers of management. If I have a problem with the way a GA color's coming out in the kiln or playing with other colors, I can ring up Thomas, Henry, or Susan and they'll not only take the call, but they'll listen, offer advice, even offer to *gasp* fix the problem.

But they have to know there's a problem to begin with.

HWCGlass · #19 2010-09-07, 7:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by menty666

The problem though, is that if no one complains, they assume you're happy. If one person complains, ok...maybe they represent 20-30 customers. If 20-30 people complain about a color, though, then there's a definite groundswell of dissent.

It's like complaining to your mom that it's raining outside.

Seriously. What do you think they are gonna do for you?

They know. Before you do. Cause they made it.

Groundswells don't change the barometric pressure, temperature or humidity - all factors that will effect how a single color recipe batches out.

And there are dozens of factors just like that.

It is not easy to make boro color. It's very difficult. Shit happens.

And the whole time you are working to pull out the next batch you got people calling to complain about the last one . . . .

Sure, one needs to stay in touch with material providers. To keep them in check with reality.

But the idea that me (or anyone else) calling them will magically fix or in any way improve the problem . . . how do you think that works? Seriously? Other than just simple complaining, what are you gonna tell them? What is your suggestion to Tomas? That he does it better? That he try harder?

They know there are problems. They read the forums, talk to distributors, retailers, customers, flame off participants, AGI attendees, magazine article writers and little people like you and I all day every day not to mention that they themselves have eyes, they can see. They know, dude.

I remember calling NS in like 1998 or something, to complain about Jade. And you know what Paul told me? I'll quote him, "Fuck you kid. Make your own. It is what it is. Take a class." Click.

They are doing the best they can just like you and I. If one of your customer called you, if all of your customers called you in a major ground swell to complain that your goblets suck what would you tell them? "Ahhhhh, I'm trying."

You would end up doing what Susan does when you call her. Listen, wait till you are done talking, flower you with compliments about how special and important you are, make a bunch of vague promises about how good the future is going to be and then hang up. So that she can take the next call, from the next dude, about the same issue.

Mr. Smiley · #20 2010-09-07, 9:47am

Actually, I do talk to Thomas about what's going on... spent a while testing Caramel Luster batches as they tried to fix it... they not only did not know what the problem was, but they didn't know it was behaving differently on the torch, until i went to them... I showed them the difference in Vegas a few years back and they all went... "Oh..." Then i talked to Henry a bit and agreed to do some testing as they worked through it... in the end, we haven't come to anything like the old stuff... it did get better...

It's not just changes in barometric pressure... things you described out of our control. It may be as simple as modifying the recipe to adjust to variances in raw materials... it isn't easy, but good feedback from knowledgeable folks like yourself make it easier. I think you're selling yourself short Harold... Nobody at GA works color near as much as you do... NOBODY. Your feedback may help shine some light on changes that will make their color better. You aren't a stupid kid calling in... you don't need to take a class... you know what their color is doing differently and they don't have a clue unless you tell them. I wish they had somebody in house with a lot of torch experience to test each batch... truth is, they don't.

LampworkbyLori · #21 2010-09-10, 11:20am

BTW, "Old Skool Carmel Luster" is currently available on the Rev 33 page of GA's website. However, when I asked ABR if they were carrying it they didn't have a clue. So, is GA not pushing it out to their distributors until new orders come in?.. Was it just a one time run? Are they waiting for us to burn through the bad stuff before they start filling orders with the good stuff? Are you going to be in the middle of a project and pick up a new rod of CL and be like, "What happened to CL??"

Cosmo · #22 2010-09-10, 11:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LampworkLori

BTW, "Old Skool Carmel Luster" is currently available on the Rev 33 page of GA's website. However, when I asked ABR if they were carrying it they didn't have a clue. So, is GA not pushing it out to their distributors until new orders come in?.. Was it just a one time run? Are they waiting for us to burn through the bad stuff before they start filling orders with the good stuff? Are you going to be in the middle of a project and pick up a new rod of CL and be like, "What happened to CL??"

That "old skool" is not old school. It's better than the current Caramel Luster, but it's not the same as the old stuff.

t grimmett · #23 2010-09-10, 4:48pm

WOW.....

There is a lot going on here.

Let me address the initial post. Revolution 33 colors are short run batches that are sold on our website. We make limited quantities to test the market. If the color is popular and we receive a lot of feedback, it becomes a permanent color ....like Agua Chameleon, Really Teally, Singular Passion, Double Passion, Jamboree, Tequila Sunrise....etc.

A good rule to follow is if the color is not on our latest poster, it is NOT a permanent production color. If you develop a production product with a Revolution 33 color, it will most likely be a "limited edition" series as the color will not be produced unless it "graduates." Ryan has the right idea, if you like it, buy it up while you can.

A color becomes permanent if we have a lot of good feedback and strong sales. You can give us feedback by participating in our newsletter polls, leaving feedback in the Contact Us section of our website (Jodi usually responds quickly), emailing alchemist@glassalchemy.com, or calling us.

Hope this was helpful.

Harold my man, you have raised some points here. You have been in this industry a long time and have witnessed changes that many have not. Mother nature writes the rules, we don't. All the pigments we use come from the earth. Any given pigment can differ from mine to mine, or even within the same mine. If our cullet supplier changes the sand they use, it impacts our glass. If the crucible manufacturer fired the crucible differently, it impacts our glass. The list goes on...(seriously)... We are certainly not trying to pass off "ain't what they was color" ... as you stated, "chemistry is a bitch."

As Smiley noted, we don't get to spend all day on the torch. Our customers are our eyes and ears. You and I have had some good talks in the past and you know you can call me anytime. I have heard everything you have told me, somethings are easier to implement than others. We try and get on mother nature's good side, but she can be tough.

Peace - Thomas

Mary K · #24 2010-09-13, 8:11am

So in the short of it Thomas, I will never see Ivory Blush again? I had thought there
had been a poll about this color and it was decided that it would be continued? Hard
for me to remember, my mind is a cluttered place, hard sometimes to find anything there.
Anyone want to part with some? I have cash.

LampworkbyLori · #25 2010-09-14, 11:07am

... Awww! I thought I was getting into more stable glass when I left 104! LOL!

menty666 · #26 2010-09-14, 1:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LampworkLori

... Awww! I thought I was getting into more stable glass when I left 104! LOL!

You mostly are, aside from the color variation in the production colors.

Rev 33/Glasstiques were sold as potential/likely rares. It's one of the things I like about them

I have to look, but I may actually have some Ivory Blush on my rack. It's cool stuff.