propane lines to outside???

meadowesky · #1 2006-05-18, 10:10pm

Okay, I went to lowes and asked everyone and their mom about a line to run through the wall from my propane tank outside. I want it to go from my tank through the wall then of course to the regulator. I got sold a 4' hose that is used on BBQ grills. They said it would work. So I get it home and it fits on my propane tank but not on my regulator. This is getting frustrating.

Please keep in mind that I can not even find stainless steel rods for mandrels in my town. We do have welding shops but I am not sure what I need and they look at me like I am nuts when I tell them what I am doing.

So can someone please help me?
Pictures of your setup would be great and also a description of what I need including the size. thanks so much!

MikeAurelius · #2 2006-05-19, 6:04am

First of all, you need a hard pipe through the wall - the flexible metal line is not acceptable in most locales.

You can use hard wall copper, black (iron) pipe, or stainless pipe. There should be shut off valves on both sides of the wall - and these must be fuel gas rated valves (very important).

All connections must be either normal pipe threads (with pipe dope or teflon tape sealant), or metal to metal flare type fittings.

The flexible pipe you purchased can be adapted to work between your regulator (all you need is a series of pipe thread adapters and probably a flare fitting as well) and the line going through the wall.

Nejoum · #3 2006-05-19, 7:21am

Best to get a plummer versed in the regs for your area to set it up.
Diana

meadowesky · #4 2006-05-19, 10:41am

if I could afford to hire a plumber, I would but since I cant I guess I will try to take a trip to the welding shop and see what advice they have.
Thanks though

Nejoum · #5 2006-05-19, 12:35pm

Mike explained it.
You have to hard plum the proper Regulated pipe thru the wall, with regulators inside and out.
Attach the tank to the outside regulator with regulated flex tubing. Not the kind for BBQ and camping stoves.
Then attach your torch hose to the inside regulator.
I am sure Mike can explain in more Detail.
The hose you bought is OK for attaching a Hot Head...But not a bigger torch.
Diana

Just Nancy · #6 2006-05-19, 2:41pm

Mike got the specifics. If you have someone at the store who seems to know what they are talking about, what you want from them to start is standard pipe to bring gas into the house. Then you'll rig the one end to the propane tank (BBQ size instead of whole house size) and in the house, at the end of the black/stainless/copper(?) pipe you'll do the step down for the regulator and torch. Plus, don't forget a shut off inside and outside for safety.

Does that help?

meadowesky · #7 2006-05-19, 8:05pm

so the regulator that is outside- wont it hurt it if it is in the rain?

Nejoum · #8 2006-05-19, 11:39pm

I don't think it should.... Here in the So.Ca.Desert they use the big 250 to 500 # tanks. There regulators are not covered.
My first D***H was a plumber...So all I know is from him.
You could build some sort of shed to protect it too.
Diana

Juliac · #9 2006-06-03, 7:41am

Stupid question, but why 2 regulators?

MikeAurelius · #10 2006-06-03, 2:36pm

I think that was a mis-type, valves inside and out - regulator outside with the tank.

glass_beads · #11 2006-06-05, 4:02am

and to address your other question about mandrels, when you are at the welding shop CONFIDENTLY tell them you need TIG welding rod.

I walk in acting like I know what I'm doing and say:
I need to buy a pound of stainless steel 3/32" 316L TIG welding rod.

Buy an entire pound or even two pounds of it, then you will have more than enough mandrels to last a very long time.

Beadbug · #12 2006-06-21, 5:16am

Ok I am about to hook up to propaine. In my last house I was hooked up to NG. I have a friend who went from propaine to NG so I am getting hoses and regulator from her.

Here are my questions just to be sure I have everything straight.

I will place the tank outside the window, from the tank I would attach the regulator?

Then hard pipe it to the outside of the window with a shutoff valve at the window.
bring it though the window with hard pipe and then another shutoff valve.
now onto the torch?
How do I know that my regulator is set to the right thing if it is outside and I am inside? Can the regulator be inside?

If I am putting the regulator at the tank can I then pump in the gas through the window with regular flexible hose to the shutoff valves? Can you use the flexible hose if you are not going through the wall?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Judi_B · #13 2006-06-21, 7:31am

If you are going through a window and disconnecting the hose from the tank at the end of each torch session, you can use your regular fuel hose. I have my tank set where I can reach through the window to adjust the regulator. Going through a window or door is considered temporary, whereas going through a wall is permanent and subject to different regulations.

MikeAurelius · #14 2006-06-21, 8:42am

Judi has it correct.

Beadbug · #15 2006-06-21, 7:56pm

I am going through the window because we are only going to be in this house for 2 years but I don't want to have to go outside to mess with the tank each time because it is not something I am going to be able to get to easily in the winter. So what do I do??? I am not going to disconnect each time.

MikeAurelius · #16 2006-06-22, 4:47am

Well, actually, you will have go outside - you cannot leave the tank turned on all the time. The tank has to be turned off and the regulator zero'd out when not in use. As long as you are going outside, you might just as well disconnect the hose. To make it easier, use a quick disconnect.

Just Nancy · #17 2006-06-22, 9:19am

I'm wondering if the two regulators in question refer to one on a larger tank (not BBQ like most people use) and then one at the torch? My LP supplier really wanted to add a third like the house installation would have.

This was new info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeAurelius

....the regulator zero'd out when not in use.

Not even the guys at the oxy supply where I got my regulators ever mentioned this. And they give me a safety refresher most time's I'm in there. (You know, always bleed your lines, always turn off your tanks, etc.)

MikeAurelius · #18 2006-06-22, 9:32am

Typically, it's not necessary. What goes on with large tanks (and I have one in my yard), is that there is a regulator on the tank to drop the pressure to about 5-7 PSI, then one on the house to drop the pressure to 1/4 to 1/3 PSI for the household appliances.

For our purposes, a single regulator on the tank is sufficient.

Zeroing out the regulator means removing all the pressure on the line. Typically this is done by turning off the tank while the regulator is open and allowing the line pressure to bleed off.

Just Nancy · #19 2006-06-22, 9:49am

OK. Thanks on the zeroing out. I bleed the lines, by turning off my tanks and running out the oxy or propane that is in the lines. Knowing the 2 shut offs would be the only thing between an open valve and the 1,000 gallon tank I was interested in knowing if I was doing something wrong with the regulator by not zeroing it out.

On the regulators I thought maybe someone knew homes had extra regulators and was counting regulators used there. My propane supplier 'says' my high pressure line will be by definition "unregulated". I think they are being difficult because I know it has a regulator on the tank stepping down from 'full' pressure to something between 7 & 11 (they told me). Then, there will be the one at the torch as well.

MikeAurelius · #20 2006-06-22, 11:13am

That's a load of unmitigated crap. If you have a regulator on the tank, it is by definition regulated. If you have a regulator on the tank, you won't need another one on the torch, generally speaking.

Just Nancy · #21 2006-06-22, 12:50pm

Mike,
Again, thanks. My mind said it was technically regulated as there is one on the tank. Since I have my hoses hooked up to the torch regulator I was going to keep it that way. I did however tell them not to add another regulator to the system. I thought (could be wrong) that 3 shut offs (plus the tank), the tank regulator and my regulator would suffice.

Our difference in opinion may have something to do with why I'm still using my BBQ tank and they haven't hooked up the plumbing, but at least it's pressure tested and waiting.

Sorry to hijack.

MikeAurelius · #22 2006-06-22, 12:59pm

No Worries@!!

amitysprings · #23 2006-06-22, 2:23pm

Brandie, when I went to get my mandrels at the welding store, I asked for non-fluxed stainless steel welding rods. They come about 3ft-1 meter long
and they are sold by the pound.. All you need to know is the size, one time I took in a mandrel I had and said I want that size, another time I used the sizes mentioned on supply websites (like Arrow Springs or Frantz)..
Hope this helps..

Jennie

Solana · #24 2006-08-01, 10:13am

Hey everyone! I'm hoping in the near future to start redesigning my studio and finally have my own place to torch...away from the house!

I've been reading a lot of these threads, but am still a little confused on the whole "piping in propane through a wall". As such, I thought I'd include a little sketch of the new studio I have planned, and what I was envisioning with the propane. Can you guys let me know if I've understood everything you all have been saying, or if I'm still missing some pieces?

Thanks so much for your time!

Karla

Dale M. · #25 2006-08-01, 3:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirWatson

Hey everyone! I'm hoping in the near future to start redesigning my studio and finally have my own place to torch...away from the house!

I've been reading a lot of these threads, but am still a little confused on the whole "piping in propane through a wall". As such, I thought I'd include a little sketch of the new studio I have planned, and what I was envisioning with the propane. Can you guys let me know if I've understood everything you all have been saying, or if I'm still missing some pieces?

Thanks so much for your time!

Karla

you pretty well have it correct.... But if it were me, I would bring hard piping along wall to very near bench space and then use very short "rubber" hose to connect to torch...

Dale

hotfire210 · #26 2006-08-01, 3:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

you pretty well have it correct.... But if it were me, I would bring hard piping along wall to very near bench space and then use very short "rubber" hose to connect to torch...

Dale

I was just going to say about the same thing, with a shut off valve close at hand, ...the least amount of exposed hose, the better.

Solana · #27 2006-08-01, 7:47pm

Fantastic! Thanks guys! I'm totally a visual person and this really helped me!

Solana · #28 2007-01-01, 7:32pm

I just posted something about this again in the Studio forum (because I completely forgot about this thread

), and was wondering if the regulator could be inside the studio. Even reading through this thread again, I wasn't quite sure if you could do that, and if not...why.

I've altered my original image to show what I was thinkin.

Also, does the flashback arrestor need to be connected directly to the tank, or can I connect it to the regulator (if it can be inside)?

Despite the fact that you *can* leave the regulator outside, I really don't want to since they're so expensive. If there's not a really good reason why the regulator and arrestor shouldn't be connected where the propane gets piped into the studio, then I'd like to go that route if possible.

Thanks!

Dale M. · #29 2007-01-01, 8:33pm

If you are using a surface mix torch a flashback arrestor may not even be necessary...

IF you want to have one, its best to be as close to torch as possible.... This would mean one that actually connects at torch.... IF flashback arrestor is at torch, it not only protects your regulator but all your hose and piping.

Also in sketch it appeard you are bringing tank pressure propane through wall to regulator... This in not good... If you want regulator inside, it should be a secondary regulator with primary regulator ourside AT TANK set to 10 or 20 psi...

Also having regualtor inside and flash back regulator outside at tank its useless.... Flashback arrestor is to protect regulator and hoses, not tank...

Dale

Solana · #30 2007-01-01, 9:38pm

Thanks, Dale! My drawing is actually incorrect. I have my flashback arrestor currently connected to my regulator and hoses and not directly to the tank. As such, when I set up my new studio, I'd like to have the hose from the torch connected to the arrestor and then the regulator.

Why is it not good to have tank pressure coming through the wall to my regulator? I'd just like to better understand what the reasons are for having the regulator connected directly to the tank.

Thanks again!
Karla