Does it sound like I have a good startup plan?

bentbymind · #1 2013-08-05, 10:12pm

Hey guys,
So I took a short 'apprenticeship' a long time ago when i worked at a headshop, and am wanting to get back on a torch. I only stopped because of medical issues prob from getting hit a few times by vehicles. So now I'm trying to figure out a way to get back into it and wanted opinions on my tool selection and general plan.
Theres a market in the area I live (a semi remote valley with one road and about 3000ppl plus tourists, closest large town is 6+ hrs away) for smoke ware and some general art and jewelry. So I plan on getting up and running to make some simple spoons, one hitters, etc to make some cash to upgrade, get more glass, etc.
I don't have much cash so I was thinking of waiting on the kiln and batch annealing at a friends house (her fusing kiln), then getting it as soon as I can afford.
It's been quite a while, and I learned on a minor and redmax with top minor, so not sure if the national 8m with sm7 is good enough, though what I've read and seen suggests it should work until I can upgrade to a lynx...

So what do I need to do? crock of vermiculite? proper kiln? what's the minimum I could get away with assuming I can batch anneal later? It was never something I had to deal with before...

Equipment
National 8M with SM7 tip (or GTT Bobcat?)
hoses, regs, arrestors, tanks
Fit over ACE 202 (i have prescription glasses), clip on shade 3
graphite paddle with marble mold on one side, smooth the other
graphite reamer (double side with bowl push one side would be nice)
sheers, tweezers, glass nippers, carbide knife, marver pad, some rakes, etc
apron, ventilation

glass will be a mix bag of colour (first/odds/seconds/shorts?), a little 20-40 mm med wall tubing, some 8-10mm tube and rod, a little mix frit and that's all I've thought of so far...

So, any thoughts? Thanks

//edit: I should have added, that I'm pretty broke, I only have $300 atm and only have a pt job... so obv can't go balls to the wall straight off.

ingetraud · #2 2013-08-05, 10:41pm

Pipes are made from borosilicate glass. I would ask the above in the Boro Room. I think boro glass can be batch annealed readily and you don't need vermiculite. I would ask there.

bentbymind · #3 2013-08-05, 10:46pm

oh, ok, I din't notice the bororoom subheading.. Saw this one's title and assumed it was the appropriate place. Sorry about that.
there's no way to move the thread myself is there?

//edit: nevermind, i just made a copy.

losthelm · #4 2013-08-06, 10:46am

Have a real sit down with your friend about using their studio.
the more tools you can share the sooner you can get started.

300 will not go far when it comes to your shopping list and working PT will not grow the investment capital very quickly.

Being a small town of 3k really limits the local market, where else are you planning to consign/market your work?
A good contract will help establish a reputation and find other shops willing to sell you work. Find someone with a good camera and build a portfolio.

bob · #5 2013-08-06, 1:16pm

I have the National M8 torch with the sm7 tip and love the flame control. The nice thing about the M8 is you can change tips for different needs, It's a great little torch.
Bob

bentbymind · #6 2013-08-09, 5:23pm

Hey all, thanks for responding.

@bob: Nice to hear from someone who's got the 8m with sm7. I love the exchangable tips with the premix adapter option. Do you work hard or soft? I'm going to be working hard glass mostly, so I'd like to hear how it works with the torch. What's the max sizes you find you can work with it? Once I upgrade to another torch, I'll grab some tips to use the 8m as a support/specialty torch is what I'm thinking.

@losthelm: Well, she has a lampwork tool or three, as she played with a hot head for a bit, but it's not something she's super into as far as I can tell. Her spouse is a potter and the glass kiln sits in a corner unused because the pottery takes up 99% of the space ;P
Because of that I can't really see any sort of studio sharing, though I may be able to borrow the kiln for a bit. I also have access to a 40x20ish trailer downtown, next to a gallery, so that's where I'll prob be set up, do open for a bit each day to do retail sales or whatever.
I know that 300 doesn't go far. that's essentially just the torch. I'll need that again for hose, arrestors, regulators and probably a bit past for tanks. Then I need some tools, and most importantly some glass. so 800-1000+ without a kiln I figure. I'll have around that at the end of the month, can borrow a couple hundred if needed maybe.
As for the market, there is a modest tourist market, and the local aboriginal population has several items that they would purchase on a regular basis for things like regalia. I have an "in" at a local gallery (30% commission) and should be able to get a piece or two in at the art council gallery if I pay my dues (only a 10% commission). The closest major town is several hrs away, with a population of just over 10k, but has a few shops I could try to supply. But then I can go down to Vancouver every few months and do a retailer tour selling stuff. I can stay there for a week or two for free, prob get a cheap ride as people go there often. Once I establish relationships with some retailers, I should be able to get enough regular sales without travel to get by. It'll be hard going at first, but I have a free place to stay (a couple actually if you count the unserviced cabins

) and generally low expenses, so I figure it should work out if I keep at it. oh and have access to a couple good cameras and my mother is an artist and used to focus on photography, so she'd give me a hand with documenting the pieces.

I was thinking about posting my purchase list for people to point out the things I forgot.. I think I'll do that. Also, it might help other's who want to do something similar.

Due to the previous suggestion there are now two threads on this (fml), both have replies, maybe this one should be primary.... ( http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=249681 )

bentbymind · #7 2013-08-09, 7:23pm

Here's my preliminary list. If people see anything wrong please point it out. Thanks.

Stage One

*Batch Annealed small and medium? vessels, pipes, figurals, beads, etc*

Torch
National 8M with SM7 - $230

Feul management
Oxygen Regulator - $85
Propane Regulator - $85
Flash Arrestors(2) - $54
Tank, Oxygen ???? (looking for local supplier, kinda important I know ;p )
Tank, propane - have a 20# (again looking for local supplier for the big tank, save shipping)

Tools
Graphite Paddle with marble mold - $30
Hot Fingers - $40
Carbide Knife - $20
Carbon Rod/Bowl Pusher - $10+
Reamer - $15+
Rod Rest - $8 (free if I go salvage at the dump, which I'll do)
Steel Work Surface - $25 (free if I go salvage at the dump, which I'll do)
Steel picks/rakes - $15
Shears - $15
Tweezers - $10
Nippers - already have around
Marver Pad - free if I go salvage at the dump, which I'll do)
Fiber Blanket -

Personal Safety
ACE Glasses (large fit over) - $90+
IR Shade 3+ Clip On - $30+
Leather Apron - $60 (edit: for me locally, can be $15 elsewhere)
Ventilation System - free as I have furnace fan that I'll hook into some used ducting for now.

Annealing
N/A - Using friends kiln

Glass
Still deciding on exactly what I want and what I _need_.

Kalorlo · #8 2013-08-10, 3:47am

Hang on, $60 for a leather apron? Over here we can get welder's aprons for less than £5 - perfectly serviceable, just not very pretty! Mine is bright orange... Works just fine for catching marbles in one's lap, for example

bentbymind · #9 2013-08-10, 1:20pm

@Kalorlo: Whoa, youre right, that's much too high. That's the price the (only) local hardware store had. I just did a quick search and generally speaking unless I'm ordering other things I may only save $10 dollars after shipping if I order online. If I go to the 'city' I'll pick it up cheaper, or if it's from a supplier I already need to order from.......

btw, any opinions on suppliers? The thread listing Canadian suppliers has 4, and 3 of them no longer display a store on their site

Prob gonna have to order some stuff internationally I figure.

bentbymind · #10 2013-08-10, 3:51pm

So I've compiled a list of all the Canadian suppliers I could find active sites for that had product listings on the sites. Here it is:

http://artistryinglass.on.ca
http://www.fantasyinglass.com
http://www.nortelglass.com
http://www.beadfx.com
http://www.theglassshoppestudio.com
http://bedrocksupply.com/shop/6/
http://www.sunlightglass.com/beadmaking.html
http://www.colourfusion.com

Are there any others? Any bad guys in that list? (i didn't see anything of that kind in my search)

Carolyn M · #11 2013-08-10, 4:46pm

I've ordered from Nortel and Artistry in Glass. Nortel, you have to phone or email your order in, AIG you can order online which I much prefer.

I do miss chatting to the Nortel peeps though. BTW I don't think Grace (The Glass Shoppe) sells boro

bentbymind · #12 2013-08-10, 5:35pm

@Carolyn M: You are correct, I had noticed, but figured I'd include all the Canadian equipment and glass suppliers I could find/think of. Thanks for the reviews on Nortel and AiG.
It looks like it may be cheaper to get it shipped from the US, but I may go Canadian anyways just to support the economy... I'm surprised there's so few here and so limited a selection generally.

bentbymind · #13 2013-08-10, 11:25pm

and my current thought on first glass order:

Glass
Momka Glass Rod Shorts Assorted Lengths and Colors - 1 Pound $15.00
Northstar Shorts Unlabeled Assorted Lengths and Colors - 1 Pound $15.00
1/4 lb (scrap?) dichro $20.00 - $40.00
4/5 mm rod $0.75 ea x 10
10mm rod $5.00 ea x 2
20mm rod $20.00 ea x 1
?26mm rod $32.00 ea x 1?
(all tube 2-3mm wall)
9mm tube $3.00 ea x 5
20mm tube $12.00 ea x 1
30mm tube $18.00 ea x 2
38mm tube $20.00 ea x 1

jhamilton117 · #14 2013-08-10, 11:29pm

Where's the cheap price on dichro?

bentbymind · #15 2013-08-10, 11:39pm

@jhamilton117: Well, it's $15.00 per 1/4 pound for scrap dichro at sundance. $40.00 per 1/4lb for 16 inch 'rod' (rainbow or other). http://www.sundanceglass.com/dicro-pyrex-r.html
I didn't realize that was cheap... that's cool. I had heard people say sundance was overpriced, but I'm really not sure on that count.

caliente · #16 2013-08-11, 4:15am

For Canadian suppliers, Artistry in Glass is good. They are local to me so I don't kow what their shipping is like. Nortel is good. Fantasy in Glass is really focused on stained glass. Last I was in, about a year and a half ago, Mike said he was getting out of lamp work supplies so not sure what he has left. The Glass Shoppe is good too. I've ordered from her.

I buy from Beadfx all the time but never lampwork stuff. Honestly, didn't know they had any supplies. They do courses as well. They are very good for everything I've bought though.

I've never dealt with the others on your list. Where in Canada are you?

losthelm · #17 2013-08-11, 11:15am

If you know someone that's a machinist or carves a few of the tools can be made fairly quick.
Rakes, pokes, and such can often be made with 1/8" stainless mandrels.
The graphite/carbon tools can be made from edm graphite scrap. It's a bit of a mess to work with but a little water controls dust quite well.

I would suggest starting a Facebook page and maybe an etsy shop or some such to promote your work, document your portfolio, as well as sell direct to the public.
Once you have a few shops selling your work a lot can be done online to maintain communication and stock levels without traveling into the city.

Keep a little cash in reserve incase some cheap boro or tool becomes available.
Between the garage sale and eBay you can get a little more glass.

TJ · #18 2013-08-11, 10:37pm

I'm in Canada too, and also found leather or welding aprons to be pricey. So I made my own out of a thrift store leather jacket and lined it with a 100% cotton baby blanket. Cost me $10. That's only if you have access to a sewing machine, of course...

It's great though, I made it fit nicely, made it high up by the neck so that little bits won't sneak down my shirt, and even added my own "bling" to it, just for fun.

I bought my concentrator and torch from Nortel. Great customer service and quick shipping, I found.

bentbymind · #19 2013-08-12, 2:46pm

@caliente: I'm in remote BC, over 6 hours from the nearest 'city' (population 11k).

@losthelm: Sound advice, thanks. The prices on EDM graphite scrap are _way_ better than it is for graphite through most of the other sources I found. Really opens some possibilities for making my own tools.

@TJ: I was thinking of that very idea, but the thrift shops here aren't likely to have anything of that nature. The gallery/art supply shop here has skins and will get me a whole cow hide for a lot cheaper than my other options. Have access to an old school machine that treats leather like butter, so I'll be making my own bit of kit

*tangent* Just got an internet overage bill for $350..... fml

TJ · #20 2013-08-12, 4:28pm

Good luck finding everything you need. It is challenging at best for many of us in Canada to get supplies, but you have it tougher than most!

bentbymind · #21 2013-08-13, 12:58pm

Lol, thanks TJ. I'm currently making sure that they have everything I need, but I think I'm going to go with Artistry in Glass http://artistryinglass.on.ca
The price on the torch is a little higher, glass is cheaper. It should even out and there won't be mucking about with the issue of customs and duties. Dichro seems like I'll have to spend a few extra bucks...
Should be making my order around the end of the month, need a couple checks first ;P
Once I've firmed up my order(s) I'll post here, the supplier and price, and my total cost. Hopefully it may help someone out.

bentbymind · #22 2013-08-13, 1:56pm

Hmmm.... Wondering if these flash arrestors are propane safe... http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/F...-Set/8476756.p (/edit: ... am i a moron? maybe...)

and if I'm going to straight buy an apron here's the option i'd consider http://www.princessauto.com/pal/en/A...pron/8308132.p

if I order a few things at once, it'll bring the per item shipping cost down to where it's nominal ($1-3 per?). Just figured I'd share