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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2007-07-11, 8:14am
Linda S Linda S is offline
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Question please help with dichroic

I've used dichroic glass on beads before without a problem but now with my 104 COE it gets a foamy white look in places. I put it on only heating the clear glass side so I don't burn it off and then encase it but I get that terrible look. I've even cut down on heat but that didn't work. Any ideas on what is going on???

Linda
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  #2  
Old 2007-07-11, 9:15am
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Originally Posted by Linda S View Post
I've used dichroic glass on beads before without a problem but now with my 104 COE it gets a foamy white look in places. I put it on only heating the clear glass side so I don't burn it off and then encase it but I get that terrible look. I've even cut down on heat but that didn't work. Any ideas on what is going on???

Linda
Linda,

There are certain dichro coatings that are more prone to that then others. Are you using it just cut? I slump all my dichro in a small fusing kiln before using it. It helps ME, although there are others who don't feel it makes a difference. I have noticed that the pink, blue and violet colors are most prone to this. The gold, copper, salmon, silver, teal, and magenta green are the most resistant.

If you want me to go through the list of coatings and give specifics, I will. I am at work and shouldn't even be reading this.

Debbie
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  #3  
Old 2007-07-11, 10:08am
Linda S Linda S is offline
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This is from a dichro strip that I had ordered online. It's probably about 1/4" wide. I haven't tried the other colors yet to see if the same thing happens. The color is a magenta. I don't understand when you say you slump it first.

Linda
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  #4  
Old 2007-07-11, 10:09am
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Linda,

I have to agree with Debbie. All 104 dichroic is not created equally. Pre-fused is certainly the way to go. I've used inexpensive dichro from one vendor and it would scum and burn if you looked at it wrong. I then purchased 104 dichro from someone here on the LE forum and it was wonderful. I could work it with no problems at a much higher heat.

Another thing to do is to make sure you have all the raw edges of your dichro pressed down good on your bead before encasing. Raw edges have a tendency to burn really quick before you can encase.
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  #5  
Old 2007-07-11, 10:50am
Linda S Linda S is offline
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Vena, what is pre-fused dichroic glass.?

Linda
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  #6  
Old 2007-07-11, 12:02pm
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Vena, what is pre-fused dichroic glass.?

Linda
Stick it in a kiln and let it get round on the edges. It also cooks the dichro coating. I find it much easier to work with. Ah, I think I have some photos. It may be difficult to see without zooming in but that's what I have available here.

I THINK slumping is around 1200 degrees. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I watch it closely because you don't want it to get too hot or it will turn into a thick round dot.

Put it in the kiln (on a kiln-washed shelf) dichro side down.
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Last edited by Debbie; 2007-07-11 at 6:14pm.
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  #7  
Old 2007-07-11, 2:33pm
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I don't have my dichro slumping directions on this computer, so I'm going to have to do this from memory -- I hope I don't get it too far wrong. (Obviously you can buy strips that have been run through the kiln to have their edges rounded, but if you already have sheet dichro or strips that haven't been kilned, or if you want a size that the suppliers don't carry, here's how I do it.) Debbie's right -- cut your dichro and lay it coated side down on a kiln shelf. Make sure the glass is clean. It's OK to leave Sharpie marks -- they burn off. My firing schedule is 0 to 1000 F over an hour, 1000 to 1350-1400 over 35 to 45 minutes, hold at slumping temp (your chosen temp between 1350-1400) for 10 minutes, cool as fast as possible to 1100-1050, then anneal and cool as you would normally for Effetre. The glass is quite thin, so I give it a 15 minute soak at 968, which is what I use for annealing temp, then ramp down to 800 over 2 hours, then turn the kiln off and let it cool by itself. I use wide strips of dichro, and this usually just rounds the edges a little bit. Sometimes the slumped strips you buy are very rounded, which I don't like all that much. (Some people might prefer that.) I put layers of encasing over my dichro and so I don't want the strips themselves to be very thick.

If your kiln has a peephole, you can look in when it gets to your slumping temperature. (Wear eye protection.) You should be able to see the edges rounding. If the edges of the glass don't round enough, you can try increasing the temperature a little more, or maybe leaving the glass in a little bit longer at the top temperature. Kilns vary, which is why there's some wiggle room in these directions. (Or so it was explained to me -- I am not a fuser. I was given these directions by a fuser, and I follow them on a trained-monkey basis, and so far they've worked for me.)

Even if you pre-fuse/pre-slump/whatever the right term for this process is, 104 dichro is still tricky to use. I've used a lot of it, and I've ruined a WHOLE lot of it. I don't know what you're used to using. I hear Bullseye dichro is easier, but I'm no good with Bullseye, period, so I've never played with its dichro. I don't understand how dichro can possibly stand up to the heat that's required for boro. I see dichro in boro pieces, but deep down I really, really don't believe it's true. (There's gotta be a trick there. I know it. Or maybe they're just not giving us Moretti people the good stuff. . . )

Are you sealing the edges on your dichro strips after you lay them on your bead? After you put the piece down on the bead, use a tool to push some of the clear down over each of the edges of the strip. If you don't seal all of the edges, the dichro coating will seep out from underneath and will go gray and scummy. If you don't get it all sealed fast enough or well enough and you get some scum, you can take it off with tweezers, and dab some clear over the edge to try to seal it again.

Coatings by Sandberg (CBS) is a good brand. CBS doesn't make glass -- they put dichro coatings on different kinds of glass, including some 104 (although I get the impression 104 isn't one of their big sellers). The "Premium" colors have a thicker coating than the "standard" colors, because they require an extra pass with the coating machine (that's what they told me, anyway). The Premium colors do seem to be brighter, and I can say from personal experience that my favorite Rainbow 2 (Premium) is harder to ruin than Rainbow 1 (Standard). Been there, done that, got the crap beads to prove it. (Note that I say "harder to ruin," not "impossible to ruin." Nothing is idiotproof to those of us who are truly talented at being idiots. )

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  #8  
Old 2007-07-11, 7:21pm
Linda S Linda S is offline
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Thanks Emily for all of that great information. I probably just didn't get the edges sealed off fast enough. I have never heard about slumping dichroic so now I know. Thank you everyone else for helping me.

Linda
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  #9  
Old 2007-07-11, 7:47pm
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Great info....might actually try some of that LITTLE stash of dichro I've been hoarding for about 3 yrs....about 8 pieces.....scares me to use it....hate to burn up $$$ but can't learn to use it without losing some.....GULP!
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Old 2007-07-11, 7:50pm
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If you don't want to bother doing it yourself, Arrow Springs sells the fused strips.
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Old 2007-07-18, 3:54pm
Alison Velvin Alison Velvin is offline
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Thank you to everyone who gave us the benefit of yiur experience! I love Dichroic and have been fiddling round with it in the dark, not knowing WHAT I was doing - still don't - but now will be able to at least work with a bit more cofidence.
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Old 2008-06-25, 7:31am
jpulley jpulley is offline
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Default Dichroic slumping question

If I do not have kiln wash can I use bead release instead to coat the kiln tiles before putting the dichroic on them? Also can I put the dichroic side up or does it always have to be down?

Thanks
Jane
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Old 2008-06-25, 8:24am
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If I do not have kiln wash can I use bead release instead to coat the kiln tiles before putting the dichroic on them? Also can I put the dichroic side up or does it always have to be down?

Thanks
Jane
Instead of buying a whole tub of kiln wash and not using the leftovers, buy a sheet of Bullseye thinfire paper and lay it under your dichro, dichro side down. Take some little bits of scrap glass, any kind even window glass will do) or a mandrel and lay it across the edge of the paper. It will prevent the edge of the kiln paper from curling and rolling up on top of your dichro.

If you use glass as a weight, leave a little of the outer edge of the paper exposed, enough so when your glass weight starts to melt, it doesn't melt over the edge of the paper and stick to your kiln.

I actually use both kiln wash and fusing paper for a lot of what I do. Some might think it's overkill, but I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to melted glass and my kiln bricks.
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Old 2008-06-25, 8:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpulley View Post
If I do not have kiln wash can I use bead release instead to coat the kiln tiles before putting the dichroic on them? Also can I put the dichroic side up or does it always have to be down?

Thanks
Jane
I think you want dichro side down. The dichro won't stick to the kiln wash (or paper). If you put the glass side down, sometimes the wash sticks to it, then you'd have a hard time cleaning it well enough not to show in your beads.
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  #15  
Old 2008-06-25, 9:18am
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when you use the dichro, you probably know this, but for what's it worth, work very cool and slow and press down the edges. melt the edge until it's soft and press. Work a bit of the glass at a time. I don't prefuse my dichro and have no scumming issues if I work very cool.
keep the coated side out of the flame.
hth
Susan
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  #16  
Old 2008-06-25, 1:42pm
mariak mariak is offline
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This thread is convincing me to buy some of that dichro I've been scared to get. What do you pre cut it with? (It seems like it can be pretty finicky and I would probably get scum if I tried to burn it off...)

Maria
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Old 2018-10-21, 10:33pm
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Bump so I can find again


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  #18  
Old 2018-10-22, 8:42am
Bentley Bentley is offline
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Ok, I'm going to chime in. I've been using Dichro for over 20 years. CBS is the only coater I use. Standard thickness is easier to work with. I also pre-fire my 104 COE (not 90-I'll explain later) I attach the dichroic coating side down only about 1/2 way around the bead, leaving the remainder hanging off. Work on the first half pressing the middle of the clear glass (the glass the dichroic is coated onto) down, then stretching the clear over the edges and pressing down. Glass wants to be 6mm, right? So it wants to ball up on top of the dichroic coating to be 6mm. It pulls the metal around with it and that's what scums so anchoring it down as quickly as possible is important. After you've done the first half, continue to melt the remaining strip down onto the bead the same way.
The reason I don't pre-fire 90COE is two fold; first 90 is stiffer so it doesn't roll as easily and for my it keeps me from mixing up my 90 and 104 strips.
Hope this was helpful.
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