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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2007-10-25, 9:39am
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Exclamation Just starting what torch should I use....

Good Morning all!

I am just starting out my own little studio. I took one lampwork class and did really well. I have already bought a little kiln.

I want to get the professional set up but I don't have a lot a $$ to spend right now. I have read quite a few of everyones threads on what torch is the best. Some people seem to be able to make good beads on the HH and some can't. Everyone seems to like the Minor.

I really want to make large beads and it seems like everyone has a hard time doing that on a HH and I have read a lot about the HH streaking the beads.

I want to get set up the best I can for the least $$ than I can.

Please help! Can I make great beads on a HH at least until I can save the money to buy a Minor.

What do you Pros think??

Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 2007-10-25, 9:48am
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I don't really qualify as a "pro", but I'll tell you my experiences.

Honestly, you can make really nice stuff on a hot head. It does take more patience and attention to keeping things warm. I have a customer here who makes really nice stuff on a hot head. Although, I have noticed that very few people who use a hot head end up staying with that torch. Most all of them end up going for an oxygen-propane torch. You do have more versatility, adjustability, and heat with a dual gas torch, and that is the main advantage they have over a hot head. I personally have never worked on a hot head.

However, at $35 for the torch, it's not a bad idea to get started with. You will need the same safety equipment for a hot head that you will need with any other torch, though.
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  #3  
Old 2007-10-25, 9:50am
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I started off with a hh but I didn't have enough patience and I would always produce "dirty" beads.

I got a Minor and I have been using that now for a few months. I can't complain about it at all. One thing to keep in mind is the oxy. Right now I have a 70lb oxy tank and I fill it every 10 days or so at a cost of $30
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  #4  
Old 2007-10-25, 9:50am
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Thank you very much for the quick reponse! I really do want to make good beads. No dirty ones allowed!
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  #5  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:00am
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True, it is more expensive to get started with a dual gas torch. Especially when you factor in oxygen. But, if you go with an oxygen concentrator, it's a one-time expense. Once you get everything you need, your only real expenses are propane from time to time, tools, glass, glass, and more glass. Oh yeah, and more glass...
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  #6  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:15am
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To start off with a concentrator is more expensive. A concentrator will run you in the $300-500 neighborhood depending on which model you use. But, once you buy it, that's all you need to do.

To use tanks, it's cheaper to get started. Some places will make you buy your tank. Some will make you lease them. Prices vary widely from city to city and state to state. Here in Virginia, I pay $30 a year lease, and $22 per fill on my 282 CF tanks. However, there is another company down the road from where I get mine that charges $80 a year lease, and $35 for fills for smaller tanks. So, it pays to shop around.

There are numerous threads comparing concentrators to tanks, so you may want to do some research there before you decide. Basically, what it comes down to is that a concentrator has unlimited volume but limited pressure, and a tank has limited volume but unlimited pressure. So either way there are drawbacks which may or may not effect you. For my torch, I can't run concentrators because of the size, so I have to run tanks. But with any of the torches in the Minor/Mini CC/Little Dragon/Bobcat range, you have the luxury of using either tanks or a concentrator.
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  #7  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:22am
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For now I think that I will just stick with the tank. Maybe after I have made a couple thousand dollars off of my bead and I am self employeed I will think of buying a concentrator. Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge.
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  #8  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:28am
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Hello, I've only been lampworking for about six months and I just love it ...actually took a class in collage about glass designing and they were the ones that got me hook..but if your tight on money and wont the best ...this is what I would recommend if you can go...The Las Vegas Glass Show...everybody who is evreybody goes and you get to see up close demos on all products and the get some great deals ... I have been going for five years straight and I always walk away with awesome deals and great ideas...they give you a break one because they sometimes drive or fly to this convention and they don't wont to lug all this stuff back home and pay...so they give you a cut..I got my Mini CC Torch with a Oxygen Generator plus rods,stringers,decals,frit and a video on how to and projets for $699.99 ...I was going their to buy other stuff my hubby was the one who jumped on the deal because they only had a limited amount for their promo...
Since then I just love,love,love my Mini no complaints whatsoever over here..
Take Care
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  #9  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:30am
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I agree with all said above basically! I started on a hothead and moved up to the minor. I'm still on the minor after 3+ years and love it. I did well the hh with soft, but wanted to do boro also. I was able to on the hh... but at 30+ minutes per bead (LOL!) I had to upgrade.

I bought an oxy tank at my local airgas for $80. It's about $13 to get it filled, which I do 2 times a week or so, torching daily. I did invest in 2 oxygen concentrators, but for some reason, neither are working right now and I don't have the funds to ship them for repair. Luckily I still had my oxygen tanks so I was able to continue torching without a delay. The concentrators are wonderful though. There's no running out of oxygen at 2am mid-bead and having to wait til the morning to get a tank refill... meanwhile losing the creative streak you were on.

I bought one of my concentrators from ebay supplier preciseconcepts. The're wonderful to work with and have great prices. If you go with more than 1 and need to connect them, I got the "y" from ebayer 86sc who was the nicest guy in the world to deal with.

Hope this helps!
Dawn
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  #10  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:32am
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If you're going to go with an oxy/propane setup, I have to vote for the Mini cc over the Minor. I make pretty big beads, and I love the radiant heat it gives off. It makes it much easier to work big or long, and the flame can be turned down for detail work if necessary.
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  #11  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:32am
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Default Scrappy... The Las Vegas Glass Show

There is only one problem with that. I live in Idaho. Las Vegas is 12 hours away drive time. With the cost in gas and the fact that I would have to take time off work it really wouldn't save me any money. Thanks for letting me know about it. I have never heard of it before. Sounds like fun!
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  #12  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:43am
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Well just in case you can go...the next one is in April 2008..when I go I'll pick up some info for you if you wont me to and sent them to you...
Scrappy
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  #13  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:50am
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That would be great Scrappy. If you could get me some info when you go that would be appreciated.

Thank you!
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  #14  
Old 2007-10-25, 10:56am
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Buy a HotHead so you can make beads now. It's $35 or $40. Add in glasses (need to have didymium or ACE/AUR-92 glasses -- say $40 or so), some glass (I recommend a sampler of the Effetre transparents, pastels, and special colors, extra black, white, ivory, and clear), mandrels (3 dozen 3/32"), a few tools (graphite paddle, tweezers or pliers, a rake/poker, butter knife/paring knife/palette knife), something to use as a table marver (ceramic tile, piece of marble, graphite pad), bead release, fireproof work surface, fire extinguisher (safety first!), and good ventilation. That will get you started. Everything but the HotHead itself will continue to be of use after you upgrade to a larger torch. Chances are you can sell the HotHead later if you want to.

Buying the torch isn't the only expense involved in setting up an oxygen/propane system. You'll need the propane tank ($35-45 -- a tank from a barbecue grill is fine), a propane regulator, and hoses for propane and oxygen. If you go with a concentrator, you need the concentrator. If you go with a tank, you need the largest tank you can handle (oxygen goes fast, unlike propane, which can last a couple of months depending on how often you torch) and an oxygen regulator. (You don't need a regulator with a concentrator.) Regulators cost about $65 or so each. Your oxygen tank needs to be chained or otherwise fastened to something extremely sturdy (like a wall -- not like a table) so it can't fall over. If an oxy tank falls over and the valve gets knocked off, the tank becomes a rocket, and I mean that literally -- except I think the tank tends to shoot horizontally, not up. It's a bad thing. It's OK to have the oxygen tank inside, as long as it's chained/fastened to something. However, the propane tank has to stay outside. (I say propane, but if you have natural gas, it's possible to run a torch on NG. Torches larger than the Minor, MiniCC and Bobcat-size tend to need more pressure than normal household natural gas, though.) You'll have to work out a way for your propane tank to be outside and the propane to get to your torch. Sometimes this means you have to have a hole drilled through the wall and a pipe plumbed through.

It's a lot to think about, but it's doable. That's why I recommend getting the HotHead so you can practice while you work out the details for the system that will let you make the big beads that you want to make.
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  #15  
Old 2007-10-25, 11:05am
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Talking Thank You Emily!!!

That was exactly the advise that I needed. I want to get to making beads NOW. I just bought a kiln for $450 and I can't justify spending another $300 right now to get the torch and all the accessories.

I know that I will want to upgrade to something "better" but I just can't do that right off the bat. So I was on the fence. But now.... I AM OFF!!!

Thank you Emily! Now I can have no guilt with spending to much money and I can start making my beads.

Now I have another question..... (and you though that was the end of this thread! HA)

What is the best HH starter kit to go with. I have seen quite a few. Varying form 80ish to 125ish. I want the most for my buck.

Any suggestions???
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  #16  
Old 2007-10-25, 11:09am
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You took a class, and you liked it. Now, you want to set up your own studio, but have to watch the $$$$

May I suggest that you start off with the Hot Head. Everything else you buy: the mandrels, bead release, tools, glass, safety glasses, fire-safe work area .... all of it is still usable if/when you upgrade to an oxy/fuel torch. The only thing you wouldn't use would be the Hot Head itself, and that's pretty cheap at $40.

You can start with the little 1# Mapp gas cylinders, but you'll burn through them quickly, so I might suggest that you go straight to the bulk propane cylinder with the Hot Head. You can still use the cylinder if/when you upgrade. This also forces you to think about how/where you are going to keep your propane cylinder ... something you'd still need to do if/when you upgrade to an oxy/fuel torch.

Now, *if* you have the money, go ahead and start off with an oxy/fuel torch.

Besides, almost all of this equipment keeps its resale value pretty well, if you decide you don't like it after all. But, that isn't going to happen! Glass is too addicting!

Just my 2 cents ...

Malcolm
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  #17  
Old 2007-10-25, 11:09am
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The HH is a great way to start because the initial investment is so small. Plus if you do upgrade, you can always save the HH for doing demos. The HH is not as hot which makes it great for learning because the glass is less likely to get out of control. It is also harder to burn through mandrels.

One of the reasons I upgraded years ago was the noise the HH makes. This doesn't bother some people, but it drove me nuts. I also wanted to work larger and faster.

If you do go with oxy/propane, the concentrator is an excellent way to go. If you want to keep costs down, choose a torch that will run efficiently on one unit.

Good luck!
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Old 2007-10-25, 11:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loverofclay View Post
That was exactly the advise that I needed. I want to get to making beads NOW. I just bought a kiln for $450 and I can't justify spending another $300 right now to get the torch and all the accessories.

I know that I will want to upgrade to something "better" but I just can't do that right off the bat. So I was on the fence. But now.... I AM OFF!!!

Thank you Emily! Now I can have no guilt with spending to much money and I can start making my beads.

Now I have another question..... (and you though that was the end of this thread! HA)

What is the best HH starter kit to go with. I have seen quite a few. Varying form 80ish to 125ish. I want the most for my buck.

Any suggestions???
Give me a call or e-mail and I'll be glad to put together a kit for you.

www.soleiletlune.com
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  #19  
Old 2007-10-25, 11:28am
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Smile Cosmo

Great just e-mailed you! Thanks!
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  #20  
Old 2007-10-25, 11:36am
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Smile Thank you all

Thank you so much everyone for all the helpful advise. You all have really helped out a ton! Thanks!
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  #21  
Old 2007-10-25, 12:22pm
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Jeez...30 dollars to fill an oxy tank?? Thats really reasonable...Im currently using a HH, but I have a 8m National torch that I cant hook up until I get a concentrator. Here in WI, I was quoted rental of 150/yr. and refills would run around 80..that was for the smaller tank that I would be able to lift. Or I could buy a tank, I forget how much that ran, but it was more than 150. So I decided to save my money (or wait for income taxes next yr.) and get a concentrator. HH is working fine for me right now, but Im new and very inexsperienced....so its great to learn on for right now.
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Old 2007-10-25, 12:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherie View Post
Jeez...30 dollars to fill an oxy tank?? Thats really reasonable...Im currently using a HH, but I have a 8m National torch that I cant hook up until I get a concentrator. Here in WI, I was quoted rental of 150/yr. and refills would run around 80..that was for the smaller tank that I would be able to lift. Or I could buy a tank, I forget how much that ran, but it was more than 150. So I decided to save my money (or wait for income taxes next yr.) and get a concentrator. HH is working fine for me right now, but Im new and very inexsperienced....so its great to learn on for right now.
Yeah. It varies a lot. I have a friend who is paying $7 a fill for his tanks, and those are the large 4' tall ones. If it wasn't so far away, I'd just drive there and get mine filled there...
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  #23  
Old 2007-10-25, 2:53pm
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I have a betta and I love it!!! It uses lower pressure in both the propane and O2. I can do boro with it if I want to. They are right around the same price as most. If you check with Ron at R4 they sometimes have used ones that are really a great price.
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  #24  
Old 2007-10-25, 4:47pm
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If you do go with a oxy fuel torch in the future, look around for smaller independant welding supply places to buy your oxygen from. Airgas here charged $28 to fill my 150cf tank. I asked about renting or leasing tanks and they wanted $10 a month for a 250cf tank and $32 for a refill after all their fees. A smaller place that has a pickup point not too far away leases a tank out for $40 a year for any size I want 150cf to 300cf. They charge a flat $15 to refill a 258cf tank and $16 to refill a 300cf tank. Needless to say I now have four 300cf tanks from them so I don't have to make as many runs to refill.
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  #25  
Old 2007-10-25, 7:47pm
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If you want to make big or larger beads, I would not bother with a HH. Too slow & noisy (JMO) go for the minor, you'll be glad you did
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  #26  
Old 2007-10-25, 7:56pm
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OH MY!! Have you looked in the garage??? Motherbeads has an UNbeliveable deal on a minor!!!! RUN to the garage!!!!!!!!
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  #27  
Old 2007-10-25, 8:24pm
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Yes, she is asking around 100 I beleive. I almost want to buy just for the good deal!
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  #28  
Old 2007-10-26, 7:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bead crazy View Post
I have a betta and I love it!!! It uses lower pressure in both the propane and O2. I can do boro with it if I want to. They are right around the same price as most. If you check with Ron at R4 they sometimes have used ones that are really a great price.
True, they work on lower pressures. But they are WAY more expensive than other torches in that range. The Betta is $370 (if you want the base, it's another $100), while the Minor is $165, Mini CC is $189, Knight is $205.
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  #29  
Old 2007-10-26, 8:34am
loverofclay's Avatar
loverofclay loverofclay is offline
Meg*
 
Join Date: Oct 14, 2007
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 183
Angry Motherbeads Minor

I am so bummed. I just checked out the Garage but it looks like Motherbeads minor is already sold!!! I looked at that add earlier yesterday and that WAS NOT the price that it was going for. She must have changed it in the middle of the day when I wasn't looking. That really frustates me because I was on the LE website like ALL DAY!!

Oh well. I guess I will just wait for another good deal to come....
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New Stuff 3/23
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  #30  
Old 2007-10-26, 8:52am
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jaci jaci is offline
Glass-aholic
 
Join Date: Mar 21, 2007
Location: CT, tolland CT
Posts: 4,332
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just a pokie in here...... I LOVE MY HOTHEAD and there are many of us who do not use any other torch.
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Minor 10lpm Oxy-Con + HH on Propylene . . . . . .

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hand dyed silk ribbons in many colors!
WASHERS & TOPPERS - layering components for interchangeable glass topper and to use in other jewelry/metalwork.:
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