Observation About Tutorials - Page 8

AKDesigns · #**211** 2010-11-08, 10:26pm

pittypat · #**212** 2010-11-09, 12:02am

There is that "people" thing again...............

ElementalsDesign · #**213** 2010-11-09, 12:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoutycat

When I pay for a class, I am paying (hopefully) for the in depth knowledge and access to the teacher as well as learning new techniques. Usually, if I take a class or buy a book, it's in something that I've hit a dead end on and can't figure out how to proceed. Having a real live person demo & answer my questions is invaluable, and there is no way that my 10 min summary should be able to cover that info. I'm not buying secrets, I'm buying information and guidance. A book or dvd are similar - a good one will be one I revisit, and refer to often. I don't feel that sharing that info devalues anything - there is no way I could share the information as well or as completely as a book or class. And if I can it was a waste of money, frankly.

I really don't begrudge anyone making money pretty much anyway they can, as long as it doesn't hurt/take advantage of anyone, so I hope no one is taking my comments as anti-tutorial. I can think what I want about tutorials and their value, and excercise my right to not buy them. It does seem lately that anyone who got asked 3 times how to do that xxxxx thing writes a tutorial and charges 28$ for it, which seems to be devaluing tuts in general and breeding discontent. People expect to learn more than how to make a frit bead (or whatever) for 28$, and are justifiably disappointed when that's what they get. I'm sure some are very good, but there is no quality control (usually provided by a publisher or institution of some sort), and it seems it's hurting everyone - buyers and writers alike.

Jen.. (PLEASE) tell me this was an (admittedly weak) attempt to empathize with Moth/Mary and reassure her that you weren't referring to her personally and never meant to hurt her in any way! <sweetsmile>

~Rachel

Kevan · #**214** 2010-11-09, 12:46am

Don't let other people define who you are, what you do or what you are worth.

Certainly not one person on a message board.

I don't know how many novels I have bought in my life that I never finished or didn't particularly like. I can't imagine starting a thread on some message board complaining about "lack of quality control".

I suggest people buy tutorials from people they want to learn something from.
Maybe you want 4 or 5 tutorials on encasing florals, maybe you want just one.

I can't imagine not watching a cooking show because I saw Martha Stewart roast a chicken once, I don't want to waste my time watching Alton Brown do one.

Don't buy tutorials if you don't want them. There is no National Bead Tutorial Board that is going to certify whether someone's tutorial has passed any sort of test.

Geez, the things people whine about.

I suggest that if you buy a tut and don't like it you take it up with the author.

ElementalsDesign · #**215** 2010-11-09, 1:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevan

don't let other people define who you are, what you do or what you are worth.

Certainly not one person on a message board.

i don't know how many novels i have bought in my life that i never finished or didn't particularly like. I can't imagine starting a thread on some message board complaining about "lack of quality control".

I suggest people buy tutorials from people they want to learn something from.
Maybe you want 4 or 5 tutorials on encasing florals, maybe you want just one.

I can't imagine not watching a cooking show because i saw martha stewart roast a chicken once, i don't want to waste my time watching alton brown do one.

Don't buy tutorials if you don't want them. There is no national bead tutorial board that is going to certify whether someone's tutorial has passed any sort of test.

Geez, the things people whine about.

I suggest that if you buy a tut and don't like it you take it up with the author.

=d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> =d> <~~~Applause

patienthand · #**216** 2010-11-09, 5:16am

amen Kevan. Moth... I have mostly stayed out of this thread because it is pointless to defend your work, to people who will never appreciate it. If they dont get it or see the value, they just dont. But it also doesnt effect me one way or the other. I will do what I do and people will either buy it or not. So far I am quite pleased with the sales of the ornament tutorial. Hang in there, dont take it personally, and out your tuts back on your etsy site. This thread is just so much noise in the grand scheme of things.

Candice

tela · #**217** 2010-11-09, 6:08am

Yeah, I really avoided this thread...This is probably a conversation best left for in person, but, I do want to say, Mary, I bought your jelly tutorial, and really, I pretty much knew how to do it before I did, but, yours are so nice!
I felt it was worth spending the money for it. I would pick up a tip or two and I have referred back to it many times.
I am very careful where I spend my money...I have probably purchased half a dozen tutorials, and I really appreciate the information and work that went into them.
I also see some posted, that are clearly not worth my time or money....
I think if someone want to write one, go for it, but think hard if you really have something to share.
IMHO,There are too many cases where a tutorial is offered, for styles, or a look that has been out there in the glassy world for all to know.
Really, this is just a note to Mary to put her tutorials back....they are really good!
jo

KJJames · #**218** 2010-11-09, 6:26am

Mary, I love my Jellyfish tut. I have learned so many different things from that one tutorial I think that the only thing wrong with it is to keep referring to it as the Jellyfish tut because that minimizes how much is taught in that tutorial.

I bought PTF: Spotlight on Hollow Beads and Vessels. I think that was $15. Great little booklet. Love it. However, there was a wider array of information in Mary's Jellyfish tutorial. Quality was right up there too. Just saying...

Moth · #**219** 2010-11-09, 7:06am

Thanks you guys. I didn't expect that, but certainly appreciate it.

I just typed out a big long post and when I re-read it I thought, 'Wow...that is too passive aggressive even for me.' LOL

Basically I was saying that I wasn't totally pulling the rug out from under my tutorials. I was just only going to offer them in book form from now on.

Then I got to thinking about how I've ALWAYS offered them in 3 formats. Since the 2nd week of the very first tutorial all of them have been available as professionally printed, bound books- CDs- and digital PDF files.

If people are unhappy with the digital files, then why do I only sell 2 printed bound books per year and I've only EVER sold one CD?

This is what has me scratching my head. You can get it three ways, and you pick the ones you're complaining about?

Nucking futs.
~~Mary

PS.
Now I don't know what to do. I had every intention of ripping the digital files gone forever until I thought of how I've only sold so few of the books. Do people really want them? Is this REALLY a minority view? (Because I'm starting to feel like I'm punishing everybody for one person's stunt and I don't want to be that person either.) Was I giving it too much weight? I even deleted all the tutorial pages from my website. Totally gone. Now if I decide to put them back I have to totally rewrite that code. LOL That is craptastic.

gubnavnania · #**220** 2010-11-09, 7:22am

I love buying tutorial in digital files. It's faster and cheaper - no shipping fee, especially for us that live the other side of the world.

So Mary, please don't delete your digital files.

Carols Glass · #**221** 2010-11-09, 7:29am

In response to "it seems to be hurting everyone, buyers and sellers alike" I would like to say I have never been hurt by any tutorial I have purchased.

What hurts me is to see a writer of a tutorial such as Mary hurt so badly that she removes her tutorials.

Laura B · #**222** 2010-11-09, 7:38am

I agree that offering tutorials in a digital format opens up a lot more possibilities for customers. Most of us <ahem> prefer instant gratification.

And whoever mentioned quality control... phft... I agree with the person who mentioned novels... I've put down more than I've completed. Does it make me never want to buy another novel again? No.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

GENERALLY, someone who is consistently selling their tutorials must be doing something right. As in... giving the people what they want.

No matter what you do, however, you will never please all of the people all of the time. To try to do that is an exercise in self-defeat.

Moth · #**223** 2010-11-09, 7:43am

Carol, that is really sweet and I thank you.

I don't take the complaints about quality to heart because I think my tutorials are strong and I stand behind them. I did a good job.

It's all this other crap that got me. Too many complaints about too many things. Not just this thread there are several and in the past even more about how tutorial authors are 'doing it wrong'.

How in the heck can you do it right, then? Just don't do it? LOL I'm beginning to realize I can't make everyone happy and some people are never happy no matter what you do.

~~Mary

edited to add:
I honestly believe that I've sold more digital files because 1.-they are cheaper and 2.- they are faster to receive than snail mail, in some cases almost instant. This leads me to believe that people want to know and they want to know now. If the majority really cared about having a physical item in their hand that they could resell--they would have bought the books even though they cost more because they would have made almost all their money back.

So where does that leave someone like me who is trying to make everyone happy? It leaves me right back where I started actually. Charging $26 for a printed bound book. Charging $20 for a CD. Charging $18 for a pdf. What the heck else could I possibly do to make people happy? LOL I give up. Either people are going to buy it or they aren't. Right back to my post about 'do what you want'. I feel like a dog with two tails- I don't know which one to chase.

patienthand · #**224** 2010-11-09, 8:21am

Mary... you have it nailed down... you CANT make everyone happy and I dnt even begin to try. If tyou make your paying customers mostly happy. thats where you focus. For the rest.. its just noise I filter out, or I would be overwhelmed. Here are the things I ask myself..

Did I do my best?
was I fair?
Was I honest?
was I kind?

if I can answer yes to those questions in anything in life... then I am satisfied. Can I learn from experience yes... but you cant change the past, so I have to be satisfied with those personal questions and move forward.

if you spend your life trying to please everyone else, you ultimately are not true to yourself and can never keep the course you have planned for your own life.

Dont take it all personally.... and keep your own values

Candice

Laura B · #**225** 2010-11-09, 9:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

... I'm beginning to realize I can't make everyone happy and some people are never happy no matter what you do...

Absolutely.

And there are some of us who should memorize this and think of it often. ME!

Laura B · #**226** 2010-11-09, 9:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

... Charging $26 for a printed bound book. Charging $20 for a CD. Charging $18 for a pdf...

Those prices sound really good. I'm about to price something substantial and offer it in various mediums... I like what you've outlined.

Moth · #**227** 2010-11-09, 9:30am

Laura, just so you know...I take a loss of profit on the books because that actual printing cost is higher than my price differential shows. I took like $3.00 per tutorial off my side to make the book more affordable. I didn't think people would pay $29. Very few even pay the $26. LOL Just wanted you to know that so you can figure it into your plan.

Laura B · #**228** 2010-11-09, 9:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

Laura, just so you know...I take a loss of profit on the books because that actual printing cost is higher than my price differential shows. I took like $3.00 per tutorial off my side to make the book more affordable. I didn't think people would pay $29. Very few even pay the $26. LOL Just wanted you to know that so you can figure it into your plan.

Thanks! I welcome all the information I can get.

When I was (briefly) looking into it earlier this year, it did seem like... "Wow... how much am I going to have to charge for the book in order to not take a loss?!"

Sigh...

scoutycat · #**229** 2010-11-09, 12:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCB23

Jen.. (PLEASE) tell me this was an (admittedly weak) attempt to empathize with Moth/Mary and reassure her that you weren't referring to her personally and never meant to hurt her in any way! <sweetsmile>

~Rachel

None of my comments are directed at Moth/Mary personally at all (other than to answer her specific posts here, since we clearly disagree on a few things), or her tutorial which is probably good value from the sounds of it . I don't have her tutorial or any others, so I'm completely unqualified to make any judgements about the quality of her tutorial or any others. Anything I've said about quality has been based on feedback from others, and what I've seen of ppl advertising their various tutorials, as well as the change in the community since tuts became a big thing. Nothing I've said is directed at any individual, and nothing I've said is intended to hurt anyone in any way.

This whole discussion is important, no matter how uncomfortable it makes people; it wouldn't be so controversial if it wasn't important. Unfortunately, it is hard for people to remain objective. There seems to be a lot of anger, defensiveness and frustration around this thread, and talk of biting tongues or coming out in defence of a friend, but there hasn't been much said that answers the concerns raised by me or anyone else either. To me, that says that people's ideas are being challenged, and they aren't finding good foundations behind their current ideas, or that the issues raised don't have solutions in their world view.

Cosmo · #**230** 2010-11-09, 1:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moth

Laura, just so you know...I take a loss of profit on the books because that actual printing cost is higher than my price differential shows. I took like $3.00 per tutorial off my side to make the book more affordable. I didn't think people would pay $29. Very few even pay the $26. LOL Just wanted you to know that so you can figure it into your plan.

Don't take a loss. Price your book at what you need to price it. No reason for you to go broke just to sell something. My books are $32.50 (for digital or printed) and I have sold plenty of them at that price.

You are also paying way too much to print them. PMing you...

madpup · #**231** 2010-11-09, 1:52pm

Technique should be free, a tutorial is worth what the market will bear.

Laura B · #**232** 2010-11-09, 2:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpup

Technique should be free...

???

AKDesigns · #**233** 2010-11-09, 2:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura B

???

I guess by their terms my tutorial should be free.

Laura B · #**234** 2010-11-09, 3:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKDesigns

I guess by their terms my tutorial should be free.

I have to disagree and say on what planet should "technique" be free?

Granted, there are lots of things one CAN learn free of charge, always have been and always will be. And there are lots of things one will happily pay for (books, classes, tutorials, etc.)... always have been and always will be.

I can read as much as I want on the subject of soldering... and did... but at last year's BABE, I took a class from Joe Silvera on the subject of soldering and don't regret it for a second.

Information that incurs a charge almost always goes above and beyond what anyone could learn for free.

I'm hoping I'm misunderstanding what the intention of the phrase "technique should be free" was.

madpup · #**235** 2010-11-09, 4:32pm

On planet earth, i will happly pay for classes, books and tutorials,
but charging for technique holds this form of art back,
this is my "Observation About Tutorials"
i know im going to be slated for this but on this planet earth im allowed my say.

Dreamscapes Studio · #**236** 2010-11-09, 5:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carols Glass

In response to "it seems to be hurting everyone, buyers and sellers alike" I would like to say I have never been hurt by any tutorial I have purchased.

What hurts me is to see a writer of a tutorial such as Mary hurt so badly that she removes her tutorials.

^^^^^^
THIS!!!

The direction and nuance of insinuations is very much hurting our incredibly talented community of artists at every level.

Personally ... and I don't think I am the minority on this ... What exactly is it that we are gaining by de-valuing the artists' time and talent and suggesting that they share it for free out of the kindness of their hearts? IMHO the ONLY thing that is going to happen is that the information will stop, period.

If you purchased a book, would you expect the author or the publisher to be there 24/7 as your personal technical support? I think not. But yet we expect this of our tutorial writers ... and every indication I have ever seen has been TOTAL support and backing of what they have "sold you".

I cannot begin to tell you how many times students have showed up on my doorstep, called, emailed at all hours of the day and night to "just ask me one little question about something they're working on". So because I teach classes (not at home) ... I am expected to give up every private moment of my life? But again ... we expect our tutorial writers to be there whenever we "need to ask one little question".

Sorry, but I think the support alone is beyond what the cost of the tutorial is priced at.

As a "personal note" to tutorial writers ... please don't ever stop, there are so many of us that appreciate your wealth of knowledge and truly VALUE all that you put into it ... and "we" ALWAYS will

Laura B · #**237** 2010-11-09, 5:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by madpup

On planet earth, i will happly pay for classes, books and tutorials,
but charging for technique holds this form of art back,
this is my "Observation About Tutorials"
i know im going to be slated for this but on this planet earth im allowed my say.

Well, then I'm confused about your use of the word "technique". People have been paying to learn different techniques (in art and otherwise) for many (many!) years. I can't even begin to think why anyone would think teaching technique of any sort should be an entitlement to mankind.

Laura B · #**238** 2010-11-09, 5:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreamscapes Studio

... As a "personal note" to tutorial writers ... please don't ever stop, there are so many of us that appreciate your wealth of knowledge and truly VALUE all that you put into it ... and "we" ALWAYS will

I doubt any tutorial writers would take seriously the plea of a few people who want hard-earned information and learned skills handed to them on a silver platter for free.

It's laughable.

pittypat · #**239** 2010-11-09, 6:09pm

There is the "we" i belong to...Pat

And I remain a little confused about "planet Earth" as opposed to???

AKDesigns · #**240** 2010-11-09, 6:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by pittypat

And I remain a little confused about "planet Earth" as opposed to???