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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2010-10-21, 9:19pm
Sphink Sphink is offline
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Default New torch questions.

First of all let me appoligize in advance for asking such detailed and information intencive questions. I am semi-new to lampworking and am having trouble selecting a torch. I will be working with boro exclusively and doing a variety of different sized sculptures and vessels (mostly working with tube) from small to semi-large, nothing too big!

So I guess to make this easier we can break it down into two categories. inner fire, and outer fires. I would like to know which of each you think is best as far as flame characteristics and adjustability goes, and the maximum size rod and tube (and wall thickness) you think each would work efficiently. And finnaly which company you believe has the best quality in their products.

Quality is a huge factor for me, and the extra money is well worth the peace of mind and confidence. I have not found this information in one place and if I could just see it I could decide which torch is best suited for my needs. Although I'd like to hear what you would reccomend also. Maybe others trying to decide on a torch would be greatly helped by this information also.
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  #2  
Old 2010-10-21, 10:06pm
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malem malem is offline
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Hi,
this is always so hard when you begin! especially if you can't travel to see the actual torches, worse try them out!
I have a GTT Phantom and I LOVE it! I had a lynx before and it was great to start boro, small sculptures and soft glass but not big enough for what you want I think.

I would recommend GTT because it is very versatile and great quality torches. You may have to wait a while for yours tough. They usually have a waiting list.

I would get the biggest I can afford, the Phantom has a lynx center fire, great for detailing sculptures. The outer fire allows you to make gobelets out of tubing and with mine I make horse sculptures about 6 x 6 inches with body of 1 1/4- 1 1/2" wide.
I have not problem melting 10mm rods. Personnally I would recommend a model with the Lynx center fire. There is a bigger model than the PHantom that has it to. Maybe better if you want to go bigger eventually and can afford it.

I only got this torch for a few weeks, so I haven't experiment with it to much yet.

I will try bigger rods, maybe order some next week and I am wondering what the biggest size I can work on the Phantom easily. I am not patient, so I like the torch to perform. The width of the flame is important in that matter.

good luck.
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  #3  
Old 2010-10-21, 10:26pm
danielle199 danielle199 is offline
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Default torch possibility?

Look it up and ask people. I've been told this is one of the best and 30% less

than retail.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/tls/2007719386.html
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  #4  
Old 2010-10-21, 11:13pm
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http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...84&postcount=3

Malcolm
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  #5  
Old 2010-10-21, 11:16pm
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It all depends on how much money you have to spend. What you have to remember is the bigger you go the bigger you will have to go. What I mean by that is what you'll need to support the torch in way of fuel and oxygen.

There are a lot of amazing torches out there. But for my money GTT are the best. Still other brands have some strong products as well. Carlisle makes some great torches that have an internal mix center fire that maybe the hottest center fires out there ( bench burners ). Knight has the Bullet which is similar to the Carlisle. Nortel has the red max that is for the money a really good place to start. But all these torches have trade offs.

You'll really need to look at you're budget to decide. The most important thing will you have money left over to buy the support equipment to support the torch.

So with that said I would look at the GTT Phantom 1275.00 or the GTT mirage Around 1800.00. The Mirage is the best big torch when you factor in cost and performance.
Scott
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  #6  
Old 2010-10-22, 2:52am
Sphink Sphink is offline
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Thanks for the replies. When I started looking at torches, GTT stuck out for thier quality and innovation. I've heard their triple surface mix torches are great, and very hot. Carlisle was said to have a premix center fire which makes a hotter flame. All this heat sounds good since boro needs more heat to work. But when do you have too much heat? that could be a slight disadvantage with color right? Or could you just easily compensate by holding the project a little further back in the flame?

I'd rather have the most potential in a torch (inner AND outer) incase I needed it, and even buy a separate minor torch alltogether if I had to do small intricate or color intencive work. More worried about color here. But I'm thinking that might be overkill if you can just compensate for the more intense flame. But most torches have their best inner fire in their best torches.

So maybe how about this question. For the application of workin only boro glass and color, if you could build the perfect torch... What would you do? I'm thinking two center fires one for working small to medium size projects. Carlisle was said to be hot, but a triple surface mix torch is also hot. And maybe another less aggressive center fire if needed for for working very small or alot of color. Then a GTT outer fire for working large projects as I have heard triple surface mix also makes for a very hot flame. Or is there a better outer fire that is hotter for the same diameter face?

Sorry I'm just thinking out loud here. I just want the best of the best and understand it comes with a price. For the product itself and the resorces needed to use them. The perfect set up for all borosilicate work.

Thanks again for all the imput!
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  #7  
Old 2010-10-22, 5:58am
pjmarchwinds pjmarchwinds is offline
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go with a gtt....they are hot and you can work large or super small. i feel their surface mix is kinder to cad colors(opaque reds, yellows, and oranges.

i have seen pieces that where well over a foot tall made on a phantom, and way bigger ones on a mirage.....i love my delta, i've had it for 9 years and also have a phantom and a lynx.

you can always get a lynx to try the triple mix and if you don't like it you can sell it or just keep it as a small backup.....
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  #8  
Old 2010-10-22, 9:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtcoInc View Post
lol malcolm, ive read that post about 30 times. most of the time it's when you've reposted it. i love it! such great info!

justinb
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  #9  
Old 2010-10-22, 10:12am
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I own and use several GTT torches; a Mirage and a Kabuki at present. I would never get rid of either one. They are great torches and I got lucky when I bought mine and didn't have to wait more than a few months. I love the GTT torches.

I would like to mention an often overlooked torch that is also very good and that is the Herbert-Arnold. I have the 55mm but they are available in 45 and 65 also.

The choice of a torch depends on so many personal factors that it is hard to advise one over another. We can bring different torches to your attention however, so you have more information to base your choice on.

PJH
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  #10  
Old 2010-10-22, 11:12am
JesterGlass JesterGlass is offline
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I've owned a Hot Head, a Lynx, a Phantom and now a Kobuki. I'd suggest starting with the Phantom. The great thing about GTT torches is that (assuming you take care of it), you'll take at most a 5%-10% hit on the resale market if you decide to change torches.

I just sold my $1275 Phantom as part of a bundle, but I had a couple of offers for $1175 for just the torch if I broke it up.

Last edited by JesterGlass; 2010-10-22 at 11:28am.
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  #11  
Old 2010-10-22, 11:18am
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GTT
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  #12  
Old 2010-10-22, 2:51pm
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GTT all the way.
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  #13  
Old 2010-10-22, 3:48pm
Sphink Sphink is offline
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Only one mention of the Herbert-Arnold. How do the flame characteristics compare to other torches? It's got a one touch knob for adjusting the Center fire and outer fires progressively right? But I think I would like a hands free foot pedal in my setup. And how do you adjust the flame to an oxidizing or reducing flame?

It seems to me that there is more flame adjustability and characteristics you can get with a GTT since they have the triple surface mix. But the Herbert sounds great for it's reliability, I've heard some people say they need alot of servicing though. And ease of use.

Bethleham, Carlisle, Knight, Nortel and others all seem like good torches too. But it seems to me the German engineering of the Herbert, or the tripple surface mix of the GTT set them in a class of their own. Any thoughts on this? Or am I missing something?
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  #14  
Old 2010-10-22, 8:25pm
Sphink Sphink is offline
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I think I've made my decision. Thank you everyone for your input, it helped me alot.

I think I will go with the delta mag. I've worked with glass enough to know this is something I will do untill I can no longer phyisically do it. I'm only 23 so I figgure I'll do it right the first time and get the best I can afford. I'm thinking of getting the mirage middle fire, as the phantom seems like a big jump from middle to outer fires. The mirage seems like a nice step up from the lynx, then to kick the outer fire to really get some heat flowing. 7>15>66 jet steps for the phantom setup compared to 7>33>50 for the mirage. That info is correct right?

Would running the delta mag with just the inner and middle fires be ok untill I needed to use the outer? Or would I want to fire it up every other month to "blow the cobwebs out"? Or would it be perfectly fine to just pretend I have a mirage and only fire up the outer fire when I need it?

I think this torch would handle any size projects I will grow into as an artist. But I would really love some more information about Herbert Arnold torches and their flame adjustments and characteristics. Also about how their inner and outer fires function.

Everyone has been more then helpful. Tell me what you think about what I'm thinking. I like to hear other peoples opinions about my setup before I commit to it. Waiting for tax time!
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  #15  
Old 2010-10-23, 2:02pm
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if you've made up your mind then... done deal. And a good choice. The Delta will serve you for a long time.

On the Herbie. They use a single knob to change the flame from a center needle point to an outer ring blazing inferno with a twist of the wrist. But there are also controls that let you change flame chemistry and also an air system that you don't have to use that lets you 'cool' the flame if needed. It's a complicated looking torch but if you learn it it has a lot of possible settings. I have to admit that I don't use mine very much as I bought it on a friend's advice, but if you don't 'play' with the locked settings it stays 'setup' forever. My thought at the time was that a single control would be great to change flame size but didn't realize there were all the other controls to use so I got the GTT's (one after the other over a couple years) and they work out for my working style better.

Have fun on the Delta.
PJH

Last edited by cheng076; 2010-10-23 at 2:05pm.
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  #16  
Old 2010-10-23, 4:29pm
JesterGlass JesterGlass is offline
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What's your oxy source going to be? Liquid?
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  #17  
Old 2010-10-24, 11:21am
pjmarchwinds pjmarchwinds is offline
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yeah, get a mag
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