I also have burnt reactive frit!

mignonette · #1 2011-01-15, 3:46pm

I am using opaque rod with reactive frit and the frit burns every time.

Also, the clear casing makes a line through the frit where it touches between the wraps . . .

Thank you so much! I love this new adventure . . . The first time I sat behind the torch, I thought, "Wow, this isn't as hard as I thought!" Haha! It's gone downhill from there and I'm a little intimidated now. It's so frustrating to go through 12 mandrels with only one bead that is worth saving! Uggh! Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

deb tarry · #2 2011-01-15, 4:28pm

Just keep going...One good bead out of 12 the is better than what I used to do back in the day.

effemess · #3 2011-01-15, 5:05pm

Im a boro newbie, and may not know what Im talking about, but don't stick your frit into the hottest part of the flame, that will make it bubble... gently warm it at first towards the end of the flame and gradually bring it in... well, that's what Brent tells me to do in his DVD

Otter's Flame · #4 2011-01-15, 6:47pm

Once you gather frit onto your bead either turn your flame way down and start slowly melting it in or introduce your bead way at the back of the flame until your frit starts melting in and then bring it further into the flame. Being that frit is small it will burn much faster than glass of larger mass, also, it generally has small jagged edges which will boil VERY easily. Just start melting it in slower.

This glass adventure will take you a life time of learning and you will never learn all there is. I have gone through a mountain of "wasted" glass trying to make everything from beads, to pendants to marbles and sculptures. I still "waste" a ton of glass. The only thing is, none of that glass is wasted... it represents learning experiences for each perceived failure.

A lot of this journey as you learn each new thing is......process.... NOT product. Going through the process, learning what the glass does and why and not focusing on the actual end result product. Like most anything out there, this takes a LOT of practice and then more practice.

Relax, have fun and ENJOY the process and the results will come. There are some amazingly talented people on this forum who are willing to selflessly share so much knowledge. Take advantage of this forum for the tremendous resource it is. Ask questions, please listen to the answers and be willing to experiment and put the time in. For most people there isn't an instant mastery of this or for that matter really, any shortcuts. Practice, time at the torch, willingness to learn from your "mistakes" willingness to head the advice of others, willingness to take chances on your own and an insatiable curiosity will take you far.

Welcome to the addiction.

mignonette · #5 2011-01-15, 7:37pm

Thank you so so much for the thoughtful responses. This artists on this forum are soo helpful! I think I need to slow down, let go of my expectations and experiment. (And not cry every time a bead is lopsided, which is 90% of the time!) I have a lot of Momka reactive glass (hence the frit), so I'm winding two beads on a mandrel side by side and only casing one just to see what color the beads turn. Thanks for your advice to focus on the process (as well and the burnt frit advice!).

I really, really love my "torch time" and "getting my bead on" as my family puts it. : )

Firefly glass · #6 2011-01-15, 8:53pm

Thanks to all who help with the pep talks, and such Great advice. Now off to ppp.

Mr. Smiley · #7 2011-01-16, 5:42am

Yep... those little thin edges on the frit are not insulated by other glass until they start to melt in... I start in the back of my flame and move toward the torch as they melt in... i

What color frit are you using? It may appear burnt because of flame chemistry... boiling the frit may or may not be your problem... need more info to get an accurate solution.

Some colors especially the silver ones are going to leave a line if they aren't encased with one swoop... you can make this part of the design, but fighting it is futile...

Pics would help diagnose any problems you are having, even if it's a crappy quick shot...

Borosilicate offers us a wide range of possibilities, but there is a learning curve... so.. so worth it in the end. for me, it's the difference between a double diamond and the bunny slopes... adventure around every corner is kinda fun! Opening the kiln is still like Christmas for me and i wouldn't have it any other way.

mignonette · #8 2011-01-16, 11:19am

I agree! I don't have a kiln yet, so I am using a crockpot and vermiculite, then and can't wait to take them out and look at them even if they are misshapen.

So, I have no idea what colors I'm using of the Momka glass because they are all remnants. (See uploaded picture.)

I threw away the burnt frit ones but they had turned metallic. I have one set of beads in which I wrapped a pink nonreactive with what I thought was green reactive and it just turned out a yucky brown. I wrapped the reactive glass last so it wouldn't be in the heat as long . . . I have no idea if it's burnt, wrong chemistry for the flame or needs to go into a kiln . . .

I am absolutely loving this new adventure and am very grateful that I have the space, equipment and opportunity to do so. Thank you for all your help. I'm excited to get going today!

mignonette · #9 2011-01-16, 11:20am

mignonette · #10 2011-01-16, 2:11pm

Okay, is it possible that my reactive glass is all brown because there'e too much propane? I just ran out of oxygen so I imagine I was using more propane to make the flame hot . . .

Shawn T · #11 2011-01-16, 9:43pm

Yes, the flame chemistry can have a whole lot to do with the reaction and color of the final beads.
Everything from how full your tanks are to how hot or cold it is in your studio. To how much lighting you have, to if the moon is full, to if you held your tongue in the same spot.

Also something else you mentioned, many of the boro colors change during the annealing process. The slow cooling in the kiln will cause the colors to change. There are also colors that do better when they are kiln struck, meaning we raise the temps in our kilns to strike the colors.

Colors that I personally don't like very much when they come out of my kiln, I put back in and "let them ride", meaning I let them go through another couple of kiln cycles. It can change the color drastically.

I saw where you said in another thread that you were saving for a kiln, so just some things to think about. When the colors don't come out exactly as you want or think they should, don't be upset.
Enjoy the process of learning, boro colors are a mystery and always something new and exciting to learn and play with.

mignonette · #12 2011-01-17, 3:49pm

I can't wait for a kiln, but since there are already so many variables to think about, (and I have yet to create a bead worth annealing anyway) adding "kiln striking" to the mix would throw me over the top! It's enough I know it exists.

I might have to start taking notes . . . I usually pick a couple colors to play with which I think would also make nice frit. All the shards and leftover pieces go into the frit jar. At least then if I don't have great beads, I have some nice frit for my next session!

BTW the first few times I worked in my studio, (garage!), it wasn't quite 40 degrees in there! It's a little warmer lately!

AuntD · #13 2011-01-26, 12:51pm

FYI, getting a metallic color is not burning the frit -- sometimes you want that reaction. You usually get that when you're using a flame that has more propane. Save the beads you think are horrible! Your opinion of them might change later, and you'll wonder how you got that cool color.

Now if the bead turns a ugly dull pitted black, like someone whipped lava and let it dry, THEN you burned the bead. Ask me how I know!

Otter's Flame · #14 2011-01-26, 2:20pm

AuntD, very good point about wanting that metallic color sometimes. Mignonette, I would suggest encasing the glass that has that metallic sheen or even just putting clear drops randomly over that part of the piece..... you may be very pleased with the look you achieve. This can be an amazing journey of discovery and there is so much to learn. The frustration can be there, I know, I have gone through it and still go through it. However the rewards can be so satisfying. Good luck!

mignonette · #15 2011-01-27, 10:37pm

Hi Aunt D and Otter! Thank you for the great suggestions. I am no stranger to that metallic sheen. Yes, it is cool, but usually it just appears on one side of the bead. The real bane of my bead existence, (besides the fact that they're all wonky, but that's another thread), is that the pretty colors often turn out dirt brown or muddy. Recently, I've been wrapping the mandrel with the reactive color and then immediately encasing it with clear. That seems to help a little. I'm also working farther out in the flame and being a little more patient.

I might also be disappointed because my first glass has pretty much been limited to black, white and 2 lbs. of Momka shorts. I love the blues, but I have a ton of mustard yellow and clear red. They both look muddy and boring. I keep thinking if I torch it right, they'll turn out pretty like the blues and greens. I've tried wrapping them over white and black, but they're still not very attractive. I'm kind of waiting to buy some pretty glass for when my beads aren't wonky anymore.

Although I have been saving my wonky beads. I have one that is black with pretty opal dots on it. My daughter and I decided since the hole is way up at the top, we will make it into a pendant.

AuntD · #16 2011-01-28, 7:01am

If you WANT it metallic, bathe it in a propane-rich flame.

Boro is an entirely different animal than soft glass. It sounds like (really, I'm not being snide!) you're expecting to do things the same way and get the same results. Boro doesn't work that way. In fact, boro will laugh at you and do the opposite of what you want. Sometimes that's good.

Take the black, for example. It might not be black (unless you know for sure that you bought black, in which case it's black). Lots of colors that look black in the rod are totally different with different flame chemistries and striking techniques. One of my favorite "black" colors is GA's Amazon Night. It's blue in a propane flame and green when encased and I forget what it does in an oxy flame -- but it's black in the rod. Take any of your shorts, stick it in the flame, and make three beads with it. Strike the first one in an oxy flame. Bathe the second one in a propane-rich flame. Encase the third. If you like what you get in the bead you struck, strike it differently the next time -- let it cool longer, or strike it twice, or even three times. Play with the beads you made, and they will respond, if only to let you know that what you did isn't right for that particular glass.

Colors will not reveal their secrets all at once. WYSIWYG is only rarely a characteristic of boro, even for the colors that are supposed to be (at least for me). You can do things the same way with the same color -- one after another -- and get two different results. That butterfly that flaps its wings in Brazil? I'm sure that's what affects the different results I get with boro.

As Otter says -- it's a journey. Every time you open your kiln it will be a surprise. When you get more experience, you will become more adept at getting the colors you want when you want them, but when you're first starting out, you won't have much of a direct cause and effect relationship between what you do and what you get. Not only is that okay, it will become part of the joy of boro.

P.S. If your red is muddy, you're working it too long. Ask me how I know!