Kiln wash on new kiln floor? Yes or No

nitefire · #1 2008-09-20, 9:54pm

My friend has a new kiln. It is a Fire Box 8, and all brick inside. I would like to know if it is a good ideal to kiln wash the inside floor? Or should i tell her to get a shelf, put wash on it, and use it every time she anneals beads. I was also thinking she could use shelf paper. I am not familiar with this type of kiln and have not seen hers. She is new to bead making and dose not want to ruin her kiln with molten glass. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Elaine

squid · #2 2008-09-20, 9:57pm

Kilnwash the shelf AND the bottom of the kiln - it's just good insurance! She doesn't need shelf paper though

nitefire · #3 2008-09-20, 10:12pm

Dose she really need a shelf? ( if she doesn't already have one) Or is just kiln washing the floor good enough? I did the wash on both floor and shelf of my kiln. I,m just trying to help a friend keep the cost down.
Thanks
Elaine

squid · #4 2008-09-20, 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitefire

Dose she really need a shelf? ( if she doesn't already have one) Or is just kiln washing the floor good enough? I did the wash on both floor and shelf of my kiln. I,m just trying to help a friend keep the cost down.
Thanks
Elaine

She doesn't HAVE to have a shelf, but it is extra protection in case of a meltdown. I have one - they're pretty cheap - I think I paid less than $10 for mine. If she goes without, put at least 10 coats of kiln wash down. you know, one down, let mostly dry, second coat, etc. Ten is not as much as it sounds.

nitefire · #5 2008-09-20, 10:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

She doesn't HAVE to have a shelf, but it is extra protection in case of a meltdown. I have one - they're pretty cheap - I think I paid less than $10 for mine. If she goes without, put at least 10 coats of kiln wash down. you know, one down, let mostly dry, second coat, etc. Ten is not as much as it sounds.

Thank you so much for the info. I had no ideal that shelves were that cheap. I will tell her to get a shelf and do the kiln wash thing 10 times on the floor and the shelf. I think it's better to be safe than sorry. Don't want her to have a meltdown of any kind.

Elaine

Dennis Brady · #6 2008-09-21, 10:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitefire

Thank you so much for the info. I had no ideal that shelves were that cheap. I will tell her to get a shelf and do the kiln wash thing 10 times on the floor and the shelf. I think it's better to be safe than sorry. Don't want her to have a meltdown of any kind.

Elaine

As Squid said, a shelf is valuable extra protection but isn't essential for annealing. However, if you ever want to try fusing small projects, a shelf is much more important. You don't want to try fusing right on the kiln floor. If you can't find a shelf for your kiln, you can also get bisque fired (unglazed) ceramic tiles in a variety of sizes. Fusers love tiles because they allow you to assemble your project on the tile then transfer the whole assembly into the kiln. Also, if you can't get exactly the size you want, tiles are a lot easier to cut then kiln shelves.

I'll reinforce the need to KW your kiln floor. ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. If you have an overfiring and any glass melts onto the kiln floor, the molten glass is acidic enough to eat right into the kiln brick. You may not be able to prevent a meltdown, but you can prevent meltdowns from ruining your kiln.

ewdb · #7 2008-09-21, 2:32pm

i have a fibre blanket in the bottom of mine... do i still need to use kiln wash? would molten glass burn through the fibre blanket as well if my kiln ever overheated?

Dennis Brady · #8 2008-09-21, 4:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ewdb

i have a fibre blanket in the bottom of mine... do i still need to use kiln wash? would molten glass burn through the fibre blanket as well if my kiln ever overheated?

No, it wouldn't burn through the blanket - but why not KW the floor anyway? It costs just pennies, takes just a few minutes, and is good for years.

squid · #9 2008-09-21, 4:21pm

I agree - I would kiln wash regardless of whatever else I had in the bottom of the kiln. It's cheap and is excellent insurance against a true disaster.

Torcha · #10 2008-09-21, 5:02pm

Squid and Dennis-
Thanks for pushing the importance of kiln washing. I have been putting it off and thinking I should just get a shelf. For some reason, I thought you had to kiln wash frequently... I guess that will be on my list of things to do this week!

squid · #11 2008-09-21, 5:18pm

You only have to redo the wash if you actually use the surface to fuse/slump/firepolish.

Dennis Brady · #12 2008-09-22, 8:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

You only have to redo the wash if you actually use the surface to fuse/slump/firepolish.

To expand on that....... you only have to rewash it you fire the glass right on the kiln floor. Everyone has their own preference for how often to reapply kiln wash. Here's our shop practice:

KILN FLOOR
Start with 10 good coats. Apply an additional overcoat approx every 3 months (we fire at least once each day).

KILN SHELVES - FULL FUSE
Apply 8 to 10 full coats then apply an overcoat of KW after each full fuse. Keep applying more coats until it begins to chip or crack. Then, scrap off the KW and apply a fresh 8 to 10 coats.

KILN SHELVES - TACK FUSE
Apply a fresh overcoat after every 3 or 4 firings.

KILN SHELVES - SLUMP
Reuse indefinitely unless KW is scratched or chipped.

MOLDS (slump or drape)
Apply 8 to 10 full coats then reuse indefinitely unless KW has become scratched or chipped.

Applying KW is not a big deal. Here's a video on how to scrape a kiln shelf:
http://www.glasscampus.com/tutorials...kiln_shelf.wmv
Here's one on applying KW.
http://www.glasscampus.com/tutorials...ash(shelf).wmv

Although most artisans prefer to apply KW with a haik brush (because it's fine hairs leave little brush strokes) you can use any kind of brush -or even spray it on. Many favour the sponge brushes. They cost about 10 cents each at dollar stores. It doesn't matter what you use, as long as you get good coats. When applying KW to your kiln floor, it doesn't matter if you get a little on the wall bricks but TAKE CARE to not get any on the elements.

KW made for kilnforming has dye added. Bullseye's is pink, Hotline's is blue. The dye burns off when firing. This allows you to immediately identify if your shelf or mold has ever been fired or has as yet unfired KW. Many artisans make a point of having 2 kiln shelves. This allows them to always have one prepared for immediate use. One in the kiln and one out - so you never have to wait for KW to dry to reuse your shelf.

botree · #13 2008-09-23, 8:23am

the fiber kilns. Our newest kiln is an SC-3. Small jewelry kiln with ?ceramic fiber? everywhere rather than fire brick. No exposed elements. I have one fiber shelf and one which is typical hard ceramic. Should either or both of these shelves be kiln washed? Will be fusing and annealing. Lastly, can and should the ceramic fiber floor be treated in any way?
Have been waiting for a callback from Paragon.

Thanks...Bo

Dennis Brady · #14 2008-09-23, 8:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by botree

the fiber kilns. Our newest kiln is an SC-3. Small jewelry kiln with ?ceramic fiber? everywhere rather than fire brick. No exposed elements. I have one fiber shelf and one which is typical hard ceramic. Should either or both of these shelves be kiln washed? Will be fusing and annealing. Lastly, can and should the ceramic fiber floor be treated in any way?
Have been waiting for a callback from Paragon.

Thanks...Bo

Most ceramic fiber does not need KW and is often used in place of KW or kiln paper. However, there are many different kinds of ceramic fiber. I'd strongly suggest not trying to fire on it until you hear from Paragon. I would expect if it should be kilnwashed, Paragon's user instructions would say so. Hard ceramic should DEFINITELY be kiln washed (or covered with kiln paper).