|
Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions. |
2010-06-13, 10:46am
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
Amazing work Everyone, I see your rocking those turtles steak! So Ive not had time to take pics of most stuff recently, But made this for A good friend. Hes been having some health problems and broke up with his GF recently, so I figured He needed cheered up Made him this pendant it looks just like the logo for his bar Toasters Pub. This was first attempt and turned out ok I think And wanted to share w/ yall.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-13, 10:46am
|
|
No Problem!
|
|
Join Date: Oct 14, 2005
Location: Fernley. Nevada
Posts: 1,130
|
|
Thanks for the love comrades.
Scout, I don't have anything currently available but I know that Shannon Hill (RIP) made a video showing how he did his inside-out beads. Doug Remshneider put out one of the first blown bead videos. Also Cosmo (Chad Trent) has a blown bead tutorial out there for sale.
I have some unique techniques that I've been refining that may be worthy for such an effort, just can't say when I'll be prepared to execute.
Keep it turnin!
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (Beau & Shani)
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-13, 11:26am
|
|
ManBearPig
|
|
Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout
Beau,
Do you have any tutorials out there for us to buy so we can try the hollow beads. Well, at least I am interested.
Thanks!
|
I have one available. I'm not going to say that if you buy it you will be able to make them like Beau does though. But, it does outline the basics. http://www.cosmoglassworks.com/store...4&cat=3&page=1
My tutorial is for inside-out beads. Some of Beau's are inside-out, and some are done with surface work.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. • To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. • To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. • To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-13, 2:23pm
|
|
Borovangelist
|
|
Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 3,002
|
|
Love the beer pendant!
__________________
-Tom
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-13, 5:12pm
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 27, 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,186
|
|
__________________
Heather Ferman Web site: To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Viking knit End Caps for sale:
[/url]https://heatherferman.etsy.com[/url]
|
2010-06-13, 6:06pm
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
Thanks Tom!
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-15, 6:55am
|
|
newbie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
|
|
sweeet, some awesome things happening this month, love all the bezel action people got goin' on! And the beer mugs are fantastic, brayr, they remind me of Duff beer! He should get you to make him some to sell over the bar!
Here's a little something I've been playing with. It's called "She has a Dragon Tattoo" (no, not a reference to the movie) and is the latest in a series started almost a year ago, based on turning flash art into sculptural popjects. This one's about 40cm x 16cm x 13cm. Most of the colours are Momka's.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Running a To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. by Miema on LPG and oxy bottles and a GTT Mirage.
|
2010-06-15, 9:29am
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Dec 05, 2007
Location: Cumbria, UK
Posts: 36
|
|
Oh, just WOW!! Fantastic dragon, love the colours on the leaf too.
__________________
--Emma--
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-15, 10:45am
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
Wicked thanks, and I think thats what he wants to do The man knows everyone in Town and showed it off to atleast a hundred people the night I gave it to him.
The Turning flash art in to sculptural glass is a freaking amazingly cool Idea. You pulled it off really really well. Big Props, thats some cool stuff!
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-15, 6:19pm
|
|
newbie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
|
|
Thank you, that leaf is made with Momka's Silver Pine. And here's another one. I have to be a bit careful where I post these, some pipe makers got " inspired" by some of the work I posted last year ... ... not that I'll go on a rant about it, I guess it's the nature of putting things "out there".
I submitted these to a glass prize competition here in Oz, I'll find out in 2 weeks if they got in, wish me luck
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Running a To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. by Miema on LPG and oxy bottles and a GTT Mirage.
|
2010-06-15, 7:49pm
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: RI
Posts: 1,209
|
|
Beautiful work all!!
__________________
Kim V
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-15, 10:56pm
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
wicked that one is super Rad, good luck with the contest . Inspired as in copied what you were doin? or inspired as in they also made sculptures based on flash art? And Ive wondered my self about putting my work out there and then having people do really similar things. Where is the lline drawn as far as all that goes?
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-16, 3:27am
|
|
newbie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
|
|
That's a whole can of worms, brayjr, which is actually a question that can be as broad ranging as ideas about society and popular culture. We all get inspired by something else, occasionally we even come up with something so different it's distinctive. Most of the problem as I see it, with getting inspired by things, is the way people don't credit their sources.
Take this forum for example, people are extremely open, they say things like "here's a Mr Smiley inspired heart." Which is great. Brent is out there teaching how to make these, offering advice on how to make them and people give credit where it's due. That's an example of a working process and it's an honour to Brent. I make spider pendants in a technique I developed out of something Voic posted. I've never been backward in saying that my original inspiration came from his work, but I've never striven to emulating it. It was a relatively small thing in the description in his tute, that became a major thing in the way I developed this technique, but without this input, I would have never clicked for me at that time. So credit to Voic for the original inspiration. Also the difference is that both Brent and Voicu put those out there for the exact reason of sharing them with people. It's something I really like doing, too.
When, however, someone sees an object, pretty much takes it and makes it into a pipe, nary a mention of the source, is that honouring the source? Is plagiarism the highest form of compliment? Is there any consideration of the fact that what someone puts out there for people to see is actually part of that persons' journey in the medium and thought process and hence a work in progress? Is the fact that it's been made into a pipe making it sufficiently different? I don't think so and I can tell you how it feels when you see work which you have spent time researching and developing turned into a pipe a couple of weeks after first posting, without credit ... it doesn't feel like a compliment at all. One cop out is that rap culture does it all the time ... but, hello, rap artists give credit ... and you'll have people give all sorts of explanations on why it's legitimate, but if you look at those argument, most of them will stand up as well as a one legged dingo.
No, I'm not so arrogant as to believe that turning 2D flash into 3D sculptures is my personal domain alone, not at all, but for pity's sake, if it's inspiring, do something else with it.
I've very early on decided to prevent this sort of thing happening in my own work and the technique is simple. When I am making a body of work for an exhibition, I deliberately don't look at glass. I look at everything else, birds of paradise from PNG, interesting plumbing, the curlicue decoration on the label of an obscure brand of vodka, classical and modern paintings, toenail clippings ... ok, maybe not those, the way tree roots intertwine when they grow down a wall in an ancient Cambodian temple, the way pistons work, flash art, fish scales, ancient Inca ritual objects ... whatever ... I can surf the net for hours over days, until I come across an interesting visual, or pick up a clue from something written, something that feels right, investigate, research, eventually I narrow it down to a single seed of inspiration. Then I expand on that, write and do some drawings, let it grow and eventually come up with something I will ten go and make. I can say "this is where it came from" and "this is the place I've taken it to". It's a process. But someone who just takes your point of arrival and doesn't even use it as a point of departure, but merely turns it into a pipe hasn't gone through this process and has no way of having gained any real understanding.
Where is the line? I'm not sure, it's pretty ambiguous, but I do know that showing personal integrity and pride by giving credit to your sources is a good way to start drawing that line, otherwise it's no better than stealing.
I could keep talking on this subject till the cows come home, but I don't have any cows, so I'll stop now ... but you did ask
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Running a To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. by Miema on LPG and oxy bottles and a GTT Mirage.
|
2010-06-16, 9:29am
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on that issue. And I see where your coming from I like your point of finding ispiration from natural things, animals, and objects in the world around you, not everyone elses glass. Alot of my ideas for my pipes thus far have been things Ive seen done throughout my 10 years collecting and being obssed with glass prior to actually blowing it myself. Granted I had to figure out how to do it myself, none of it turns out the exact same, I put my own style into as well, and Its just prodo spoons, but I was inspired by someone elses work. Im now at the point with glass that i feel Im no longer a newbie. I have now have need to create and not do exactly what has been tought to me. Im playing with bigger things and more advanced techs. I really want to come up with original art I can be really proud of and I can be known for. I think I will strive to gain more inspiration from our world. Thats how you get something original and not like everyone else. Sometimes though I feel that glass has been around so long, And Im so new that it would be very difficult to do something 100% original, that has not been done allready. But if I did come up with something that I poured my heart and soul into, researching and developing, and playing with ideas and creating, and someone just copied it a week later, I would be pretty bummed. If they like your Idea they can atleast do something diff with it to make it theirs and then def should thank you for the inspiration.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-17, 3:45am
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: RI
Posts: 1,209
|
|
Sorry you are having to deal with this, Wicked. Please keep posting your work, it's incredible!!! Good ideas, bray (sorry, don't know your real name )
Here's a little something from me. Not technically advanced
This one I uploaded here way back at the beginning of April and for various reasons, never shared it. Gunmetal chain, handmade copper spacers, and a brass dangly.
This is one of my interchangeable ones. Sterling chain, copper spacers, and a sterling spiral charm. The beads in the background are simple bracelet beads that could replace the ones on the chain. I've been selling those kinds of beads for several years at shows. Just another way to use them.
__________________
Kim V
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-17, 7:19am
|
|
Harold Williams Cooney
|
|
Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
Harold...
What do you use to do the cuts on those?
|
A 'V' wheel.
__________________
Studio for the American Trade Bead; Advancing the craft of glass beadmaking through the art of self-collection. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
American Trade Bead Food Program; Necklace auctions To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , entertainment that improves Colorado. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-17, 9:34am
|
|
Member
|
|
Join Date: Jan 16, 2009
Location: Nanaimo, BC, Canada
Posts: 34
|
|
Those are really nice Kim. I especially like the colours in the top set.
Denise
|
2010-06-17, 1:57pm
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: RI
Posts: 1,209
|
|
Thank you, Denise! Me too
__________________
Kim V
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-17, 5:18pm
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
I had three points blow up on me first thing last night. So decided no hollows and Here are a few things from playing last night!! Had a couple more but had small cracks and other problems, so goin to try to fix em tonight.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-17, 9:43pm
|
|
Harold Williams Cooney
|
|
Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
|
|
^^ good work ^^
&
wickedglass . . . kickass!!!!
__________________
Studio for the American Trade Bead; Advancing the craft of glass beadmaking through the art of self-collection. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
American Trade Bead Food Program; Necklace auctions To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , entertainment that improves Colorado. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-18, 12:07am
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
thanks!! was my second dolphin, first attempts at tree implosions, and Decided to make a heady turtle for the first time.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-18, 4:11pm
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
Here are some things I made for fathers day! My dad has been the most supportive person of my lampworking and glassblowing. I spent prol 6-7 hours making him the golfing turtle. I had lots of issues but finally pulled it off. He seen a sketch/doddle I had made of it. And asked " could you make a golphin turtle sculpture"? I replied I duno would be really hard, I guess if you were really good you could. LOL I allready planned on doin it, so I had to throw him off my tracks, but now he will think Im awesome The turtle paper wheight is for my grandpa who is one of the biggest reasons why I love turtles. WHile I was young and growing up he would bring me a box turtle every spring that he saved from the road. I would keep it all spring and summer and when the leaves started falling in the fall I would let it go. oh ya and another set of toaster mugs for an order.
turtle paper weight is like an inch and a half x inch and a half
golf sculpture is like three inches tall and the base is about 2 in across
I tried to sculpt the head of the turtle the best I could and was first attempt at that.
All and all I learned alot making it! Hope yall dig it!
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-18, 4:15pm
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
cont.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-18, 8:09pm
|
|
She's Back & Burnin'
|
|
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,117
|
|
great thread!!!!!
I love all the beads and those gorgeous pendants.
The golfing turtle is just too cute!!!
Sara
__________________
Midrange torch and too many tanks of oxygen!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-18, 8:12pm
|
|
Harold Williams Cooney
|
|
Join Date: Jan 13, 2009
Posts: 713
|
|
Golfing turtle takes it. Great job.
__________________
Studio for the American Trade Bead; Advancing the craft of glass beadmaking through the art of self-collection. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
American Trade Bead Food Program; Necklace auctions To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , entertainment that improves Colorado. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-18, 8:23pm
|
|
Borovangelist
|
|
Join Date: Jan 26, 2007
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 3,002
|
|
Love the golfing turtle
__________________
-Tom
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-19, 1:25am
|
|
newbie
|
|
Join Date: Feb 18, 2007
Location: The land of Oz!
Posts: 465
|
|
That golfing turtle is too cute! Your dad will totally love that! Can't wait to see you do that surfing turtle you been talking about!
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Running a To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. by Miema on LPG and oxy bottles and a GTT Mirage.
|
2010-06-19, 4:25am
|
|
ManBearPig
|
|
Join Date: Jun 28, 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 8,540
|
|
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. • To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. • To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. • To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-19, 5:04am
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: RI
Posts: 1,209
|
|
Love the golfing turtle!!! Made me think back to when the kids were little and my son was enthralled with Kermit. It ain't easy being green
Good luck at your show today, Chad!! Gorgeous marbles!!
__________________
Kim V
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
2010-06-19, 9:59am
|
Torchaholic ;)
|
|
Join Date: Nov 05, 2009
Location: Nomadic!
Posts: 244
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wickedglass
That golfing turtle is too cute! Your dad will totally love that! Can't wait to see you do that surfing turtle you been talking about!
|
Had early fathers day dinner with dad and grandpa last night. I gave it to him and HE really loved it and so did grandpa but of course first thing he asked was how much would you sell this for? I said I duno really that one is priceless pretty much. Then after a few glasses of wine and great food. I said I think I should do a whole series of turtles playing sports. I love turtles and lots of people love sports. So wicked hopefully there will be a surfin turtle at some point lol.
Thank you all for the compliments, Im very proud right now
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
FOLLOW OUR TRAVELS IN THE MOBILE SHOP !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 6:13pm.
|