Lampwork Etc.
 
Mountain Glass Arts

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Donate via PayPal to donate@lampworketc.com

Beads of Courage


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Safety

Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2012-08-30, 8:23am
bepnewt's Avatar
bepnewt bepnewt is offline
Marble Lover
 
Join Date: Apr 16, 2012
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 802
Default Natural Gas line

I'm almost set up to melt some glass. I'm stuck doing it on the back covered porch, but it's better than nothing! Coincidentally, in the new house, there's this coming out of the wall right next to where I'm going to torch.



Back Porch NG Line - bigger pic


Before I make a fool of myself and get a gas-certified plumber out to look at it - this IS a NG line, right? Our house does has multiple NG appliances.

If it is, then I'll go back and read all the articles on here on using NG and then proceed with hooking this up to my torch, using the proper connector(s) and safety items. This assumes it has enough pressure for my torch, too.

Anyway, verification that this is probably NG is what I'm looking for if you can help.

Thanks,
-BEP
__________________
Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2012-08-30, 8:56am
Janetlee's Avatar
Janetlee Janetlee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: In my Studio
Posts: 1,811
Default

Yes, It is a natural gas line. I have NG in my house for my torch. I use Mini CC and Oxycon for torch. I did have it piped by lincensed plumber for insurance purposes.That way I was covered.
But mine has plenty of pressure to run my torch.
Janet

Last edited by Janetlee; 2012-08-30 at 8:58am. Reason: fix typo
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2012-08-30, 1:30pm
Alaska Alaska is offline
Alaska Boro
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
Default

Yes, the red "T" shut off valve is typical in an NG installation. However, be sure to check under the house as there may be another shut off valve on the other side of the brick.

The missing piece is where is the gas meter located. Generally the pipe comes out of the ground directly to the meter in many installations. Just make sure that this is not a propane installation with an underground tank.

Your suggestion about using the services of a licensed NG installer is right on the mark.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2012-08-30, 2:05pm
bepnewt's Avatar
bepnewt bepnewt is offline
Marble Lover
 
Join Date: Apr 16, 2012
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 802
Default

Thanks for the verification, folks.

On to the next step!

-BEP
__________________
Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2012-08-30, 7:45pm
Dale M.'s Avatar
Dale M. Dale M. is offline
Gentleman of Leisure
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
Default

Actually if its in a "porch" or a "patio" area it is probably a connection for a BBQ....

Would work quite well to "power" a torch....

Dale
__________________
You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vendor-Artist-Studio-Teacher Registry

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2012-09-08, 10:18am
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
...
 
Join Date: Apr 03, 2006
Location: Nor-Cal Coast
Posts: 892
Default

You can buy a flexible hose setup (for Natural Gas) that is made for connecting a bbq at your local hardware store that has all of the correct fittings which include a quick connect and a safety valve for about $40.00 or so.
I use one for my gloryhole when I do furnace work.

Here is a link to the one I use http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-Gr...1#.UEt-8Y2PWVo

Last edited by Mike H; 2012-09-08 at 10:24am.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2012-09-08, 10:46am
bepnewt's Avatar
bepnewt bepnewt is offline
Marble Lover
 
Join Date: Apr 16, 2012
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 802
Default

Thanks, Gentlemen.

-BEP
__________________
Brian E. Parker aka BEPNewt
Lifelong glass lover, now getting to work with it. Using a Bravo on an M20 & Natural Gas ( inner ), Tanked O2 & Propane ( outer ).
Grew up near
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2012-09-08, 10:07pm
Lampwork49 Lampwork49 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2012
Location: Alaska
Posts: 64
Default

Problem with NG at home is there is no pressure. I wanted to use at one time at home also and basically you only have about 1/4 psi delivered to your house. I also talked to a engineer at the gas co and id have to jump thru a lot of hoops to MAYBE get it increased to about 1psi. Just thought you might want to know. Check with your gas co
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2012-09-09, 1:40am
Alaska Alaska is offline
Alaska Boro
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
Default

Many places limit NG pressure to about 7 WC or .3 PSI. (The number should be posted on your outside gas regulator.) There are a number of torches that work well on low pressure NG.

Have used a Scorpion with the lower NG pressure. However, IMO the low pressure will limit the overall performance of the torch. Its high end potential can not be achieved with NG at .3 PSI as there is simply less fuel. But the Scorpion, even on low pressure NG at 7 WC, will do a good job on boro. But higher pressure is an overall a plus.

Some gas companies will up the pressure to 1 or 2 PSI. Others will not. One option is to use a NG gas compressor to up the pressure from .3 PSI to 5 PSI (5 to 25 regulated) for torch use.

NG is a cleaner fuel and less costly per BTU than propane. NG costs 6 to 10 times less than propane depending on local costs for each. And no running out or evening trips to the propane store!

Last edited by Alaska; 2012-09-09 at 1:42am.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2012-09-09, 7:42am
tenor_ringer's Avatar
tenor_ringer tenor_ringer is offline
Ambivitreous
 
Join Date: Apr 03, 2009
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 741
Default

We got our NG pressure boosted to 5 psi. We had to get a mechanical contractor certified/licensed to do "high pressure" gas installations. Our contractor worked with me and the technical department at the gas company. It worked out to be about the same cost as a pressure booster. We can run both our Mega Maxes full out at the same time, and we never run out of gas. Since NG is lighter than air and our studio is in the basement, it's also safer than propane. We couldn't be happier.
__________________
Phil from Rochester

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rockin' 2 Nortel Red Maxes with Mega Minor topfires on natural gas & 6 EX-15s with my glass accomplice Lisa F-R
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2013-02-19, 10:18pm
glass butterfly glass butterfly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 484
Default

Hi, I'm a newbie who has only been playing with glass on a Hot Head torch and MAPP gas for the past few months first in my garage and now in my basement and would like to upgrade to a Minor Torch which is on order and coming on Monday, plus I already have a M15 oxycon. I was originally going to get a propane BBQ tank to be kept outside but spent several hours last night reading the thread on safety here and was impressed with all the advice given. I liked reading the differing opinions and reasons for them, and am now too scared of causing a fire or explosion in my basement because of pooling propane since I have a gas water heater and gas boiler not too far from where I have my flameworking set up, so am opting to have the licensed "gas man" who is coming on Wednesday to set up my generator which will also be connected to the gas line, also run a line for NG for my torch. My concerns are what should i ask him since I don't know if he's familiar with torches for lampworking. Also, what other equipment do I need to buy - hoses, regulators, any flash back arrestors, quick connects for the gas, what kind of hose for my connection from torch to oxycon, etc. I did have a strong exhasut fan installed through my basement wall where my torch is( it's a about a foot above the torch and I keep my basement door open with at least a foot of the screen door open on top for fresh air. I had the fan put in before I thought about lampworking and was just going to use the space for soldering with a small butane or propane jeweler's torch, so did notknow about installing a hood above the torch and can't right now. I was assured by the electricians who work for the heating and cooling company that the fan was strong enough to pull out the fumes and since I have a walk out door to my basement near my torch set up that it was sufficient ventilation plus I've had a fan blowing at my back to push the fume from the torch to the exhaust fan which is about a foot in front of the torch. However, that breeze is rather chilly. I want to have everything done to code so that I and the occupants of the house are safe. I would appreciate any help that any of you can give me. Thanks. Lydia
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2013-02-20, 7:52am
Dale M.'s Avatar
Dale M. Dale M. is offline
Gentleman of Leisure
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
Default

Basically a gas line to torch is like a gas line to any gas appliance (gas clothes drier- water heater- furnace).... It has to be in metal piping that has a positive gas approved shut of valve at end of metal piping ...

Quick connects and flashback arresters can be problematic on NG lines as the pressure in NG line is not usually sufficient enough to open the spring loaded check valves in the hardware.... What you may want consider is a "fire check", a device which allow low pressure NG to flow, but has screen assemblies inside that have so small a opening the flame front (from a flashback) can not pass through it, so your NG source is protected....

http://carlislemachine.com/as_accessories/firecheck.php
http://carlislemachine.com/webcatalog/fire_checks.pdf

Image of installed "fire check" ( large hex shaped item) ...



Once you get gas line with shutoff installed and fire check in place the rest is "just" hardware store or welding supply plumbing stuff....

Only specialty item may be "B" fitting that converts everything from NPT thread to welding size brass hose/torch connections... Also keep in mind welding type fuel hoses have left-hand (counter clockwise) threads...



Available at local welding supply or online welding suppliers or better online glass retail sites...

Also No regulator is needed as NG is already regulated at meter where it enters residence...

Dale
__________________
You can lead a person to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Vendor-Artist-Studio-Teacher Registry

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal

Last edited by Dale M.; 2013-02-20 at 7:59am.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2013-02-21, 5:07pm
glass butterfly glass butterfly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 484
Default

Hi Dale, Thank you for the explanations and pictures for the installation of my NG line for my torch. I've noticed that some folks on LE say that the NG has insufficient pressure for their torches to work. Is that something that I need to discuss with the "gas man" when he comes on Wednesday? What should the pressure for my Minor torch be? Thanks for your help. Lydia
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2013-02-21, 6:46pm
Alaska Alaska is offline
Alaska Boro
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
Default

In many home installations the pressure is about 7 WC or in the 1/3 PSI range. You can ask the installer as to the pressure. Also one can check the regulator on the entrance gas meter as usually the pressure is stamped on the device. Here it is 6.8 to 7.2 WC.

Check the manual for your torch as most will list the appropriate pressure range for both oxygen and fuel.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2013-02-22, 6:27pm
glass butterfly glass butterfly is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2011
Location: Virginia
Posts: 484
Default

Thanks so much for letting me know where to check the pressure on the gas outside. My Minor torch is arriving on Monday, So I'll check the manual that comes with it also. I appreciate your help. Thanks again. Lydia
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2013-03-09, 7:12am
Karen P's Avatar
Karen P Karen P is offline
Ooohhh! Shiny!
 
Join Date: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 257
Default

You should be fine with a minor on NG. I run mine on NG and a 5LPI oxycon. Works great and is no more dangerous to my home than my hot water heater. Have fun!
__________________
So many new toys - So little time!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2013-03-09, 7:46am
laserglass's Avatar
laserglass laserglass is offline
old fart
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2006
Location: st paul mn
Posts: 778
Default

do not invest in a natural gas booster......do invest in one of numerous torches that work fine on low pressure NG.....most will except the carlile torches, but i am not sure of that....
__________________
Mark Wilson

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2013-03-09, 3:02pm
Alaska Alaska is offline
Alaska Boro
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 1,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by laserglass View Post
do not invest in a natural gas booster
What are the reasons?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 1:01am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 3.91.43.22