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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2006-10-16, 10:44am
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Default Anyone tried the new Minnow?

Just want to see if there are any reaction/feedback on the new Bethlehem Minnow? I am ready to upgrade from my HH and have narrowed it down to a Bobcat. But before I purchase, just want to see if a Minnow may be something I should consider since the Betta and Pirahna have such great following.

Thank you in advance!

Hayley
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  #2  
Old 2006-10-16, 12:53pm
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Well, I have Minnow #2, just off the presses. Now, I'll confess that I'm a little biased, but I can tell you it's a sweet torch, nice and hot, utterly silent and virtually indestructible. Great for beadmaking, and the best priced torch Bethlehem ever offered....By the way, the Minnow is about twice as hot as the Piranha....

Marcie
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  #3  
Old 2006-10-16, 3:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firelady
Well, I have Minnow #2, just off the presses. Now, I'll confess that I'm a little biased, but I can tell you it's a sweet torch, nice and hot, utterly silent and virtually indestructible. Great for beadmaking, and the best priced torch Bethlehem ever offered....By the way, the Minnow is about twice as hot as the Piranha....

Marcie
How does it compare to the betta?
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  #4  
Old 2006-10-16, 8:09pm
firelady firelady is offline
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Default Betta is Hotter

Their flame characteristics are very similar, except, of course, that the Betta can handle very low line pressures....as low as a half pound of gas and five pounds of oxygen.....that's the really significant feature of the Betta. But while the flames may look very much alike, the Betta is hotter and faster than the Minnow.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonfireBeads
How does it compare to the betta?
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  #5  
Old 2006-10-17, 8:20am
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So then what are the gas/oxy requirements of the Minnow? Will it run OK on household NG and oxycon?
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Old 2006-10-18, 12:02pm
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Marcie,

I used the link on your ad featuring the Minnow and there was NO minnow on your website! Am I missing something?

Hayley
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  #7  
Old 2006-10-18, 12:10pm
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And along with Barbara's question will a Betta run on household NG and an oxycon?
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Old 2006-10-18, 12:32pm
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Actually, that's what the Betta was designed for - low pressures.
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  #9  
Old 2006-10-18, 1:27pm
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Marcie,

With this thread keep switching over to Betta - I would like to ask about Minnow again. I couldn't even find reference to Minnow on the Bethlehem site. Please help!

Thanks,
Hayley
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  #10  
Old 2006-10-18, 3:28pm
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I know, it's frustrating that the Minnow isn't on the Beth site yet. Because they are THAT new....just a few test torches out, nobody has them yet...they will hit the general market SOON, and we are taking orders for them NOW... So, to answer the questions:

Both torches are amazingly quiet. Both are revolutionary in my book....

The BETTA, because it was designed for household natural gas and concentrators and generators. You can work with gas as low as .5 psi and 3 psi oxygen. (Although I work 1 psi Propane and 5 psi oxygen.) Also works fine at the usual pressures of 5 psi gas and 20 psi oxygen) I think in psi. Our official specs are in liters per hour: 107.4 l/hr gas and 332.3 l/hr oxygen. I also have cubic feet....Do you want that as well?

Anyway, the Betta is awesome because it's got the low pressure ability and was designed from the ground up to meet the needs of flameworkers on concentrators and generators....

The SS Minnow Burner is incredible. It is virtually silent except for highly oxidizing flames. It's just sooo quiet. More than that, it's going to be almost indestructable. Instead of bundles of tubes running through the length of the torch, which is how all torches deliver their fuels, this one has holes drilled in stainless steel, for the length of the torch body. No tubes. That means it can drop, get knocked around, and live through beginner classes and survive! It's hot and has the most perfect combustion of any torch we've ever produced. It's $197 price tag I just want to kneel on the ground and thank the universe for. Finally! So it's positioned as an entry level bead burner, but I can tell you it's great for small boro as well.

I do have some figures here from the home office on the Minnow: Natural Gas: 240 liters per hour, or 6 cubic feet per hour. Oxygen: 10 liters per minute. Does that help?

So take your pick and please continue to ask questions. (That's what I'm here for!) We're still doing our research on the Minnow, as far as how far it can go, heat-wise. I will tell you that the Minnow is TWICE as hot as the Piranha.......

Have fun and let me know what you need....

Marcie
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  #11  
Old 2006-10-18, 3:46pm
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Thank you Marcie. Often people are trying to decide between the two and having the info in one place is helpful.
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Old 2006-10-18, 4:37pm
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Well I had a hard time deciding but I ended up ordering the Betta a few days ago. What's the learning curve coming from a hothead? I just can't wait to get real colors!!!!
Can't wait
Irene
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  #13  
Old 2006-10-18, 4:42pm
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Marcie,

Thank you! How does one order a Minnow?

Hayley
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  #14  
Old 2006-10-18, 5:09pm
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Marcie, what's your company/website? Unless I'm just overlooking it, I don't see it on this thread.

I'm looking at upgrading from a HH and I'm interested in possibly getting the Minnow. I also would like to know the learning curve going from a HH. I've used a Minor. Any similarity?

Thanks! Warmly, Marie C
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  #15  
Old 2006-10-18, 8:16pm
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The Bethlehem site is www.bethlehemburners.com. But the Minnow isn't up yet. I just produced some awesome movie tutorials for the site, too, but the web designer hasn't uploaded them yet. Oh well.... Meanwhile, there will be a bit of a learning curve from a Hot Head, but such a wonderful one! No more stinky work area. No noise. As in....silence. A torch with a flame you can truly adjust. Choices of flame, really. I'd say the first learning curve has to do with just the equipment. You need hoses, regulators, flashback arrestors and the like. So you need to figure out the configuration and put it together. For working, I'd say even just an hour or two of playing with flame settings will be thrilling and productive. The biggest thing for you will be how fast your glass will melt. Where to place the glass in relation to the flame. And remembering to POOP. That's the acronym to help you remember the order the gases are turned on and off in....as in: First Propane (on) then Oxygen (on). Then Oxygen (off, first), then Propane, (off last). Little things like that. But what a joy! You'll work twice as fast in a clean environment where you can hear your family, friends, music and tv. You'll get much more done in a given period of time, and you'll be able to attain much finer details. Of course, learning to adjust the flame as you work will take practice. You'll learn when you want a little pointy flame, a neutral round flame, reducing, etc. It's like going from a little kiddie keyboard with one octave, to all the notes on a concert grand.

It's similar to a Minor in that it's oxy/propane, and no independently operated outer ring of flame...just two controls. But the flame characteristics are different.....the Minor is somewhat bushier I think, not sure how razor sharp it's small flame setting is....but, yes, they are similar...although the Beth's are much faster at working boro, should you want to delve into that.

You can order a torch online, or from me. Online is fine, but if you use me I can help push their delivery times a little, and be on the phone with you when you set up or have questions, etc. NO, I don't get a commission from the sale, so that's not why I'm suggesting it. I can just give a little more personal service than if you get it online. Anyway, did I answer all your questions?

Marcie
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  #16  
Old 2006-10-26, 8:01am
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Hi,

I'm just curious how this compares to the mini CC and the bobcat that are also in the same price range. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Also, did you answer if the Minnow can run on household NG? I'm just starting to look into an upgrade so the numbers you posted don't mean a lot to me yet, so a simple yes or no if possible would be appreciated.
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  #17  
Old 2006-10-26, 8:10am
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When you say "twice as hot as a Piranha" how are you measuring that? I'm just curious because the center fire of my Barracuda is basically a Piranha, right? It seems much hotter than the Minor I used to have, so if the Minnow is twice as hot as a Piranha then it seems like it would be comparable to a Lynx? If so it's a fantastic bargain at that price.
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  #18  
Old 2006-10-26, 9:07pm
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Double checking that I've got this right:

A minnow can run on NG, but not at household pressures. does it really need 10 lpm oxy, or will it run on one 5 lpm concentrator?

The betta will do fine on household NG and 5 lpm oxy/one concentrator, but can handle higher pressures if available.

Will both do propane, or only the minnow?

Yikes, I thought I wanted a betta but was decrying the price, the minnow is so much more affordable, but I don't have $$ for 2 concentrators. So either way washes out about the same for me, I guess, and then it boils down to fuel choice. Right? Hothead=much less info to process LOL

thanks-
Sarah
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  #19  
Old 2006-10-27, 6:32am
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Both torches operate perfectly on propane. Both operate admirably on natural gas...but the Minnow needs a little more pressure than the Betta. The Minnow is so new we haven't done much testing on the concentrators yet. I'm thinking one would be enough, but that is not "official"....as I said we still have to test. If budget is a big issue, personally I'd vote for the Minnow.
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Old 2006-10-27, 9:16am
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I just want to ask the same question Kalera asked:
When you say "twice as hot as a Piranha" how are you measuring that?

Kristian (Generations Glass) says that the Minnow is not quite as hot as the Betta. Are you saying that the Betta is more than twice as hot as the Piranha? The Bettas that I have seen and run seemed to be pretty much the same as the Piranha - same configuration, just bigger valves.
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  #21  
Old 2006-10-27, 10:18am
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I too would be interested in seeing your answer to binkster & kalera's question. I own a mini, a pinpoint, minors, a pirahna and a lynx (plus a couple others that are considered in the "big boys" family) I love my piranha for the hot flame when I work boro..so I'd be interested in the "twice as hot" feature of the new minnow, and for that price.....more than the P sold for...well what a bargain that would be...especially if it has great control for flame sizes too.
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Old 2006-10-27, 11:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiredDesires
I own a mini, a pinpoint, minors, a pirahna and a lynx (plus a couple others that are considered in the "big boys" family)
Is there a "Torchaholics Anonymous" chapter in your area?

(Yeah, and why am I reading this thread? I've got a Hothead, a Minor, a Beth Bead Burner, and a Lynx. And I'm not getting rid of any of them, so there (although the Minor's on long-term loan to someone.))
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  #23  
Old 2006-10-27, 11:27am
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The Minnow has a wider flame, it's about 1.5 times as wide as the Piranha was. We do our tests in BTU's. (British Thermal Units). The Piranha put out 7,689 BTU's per hour. The Minnow puts out 15,378 BTU's per hour. Keep in mind that the Minnow moves a higher volume of fuels. It moves 6 cubic feet of gas per hour, (239 liters per hour), It's oxygen consumption is 20 cubic feet per hour, (or 566 liters per hour).
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Old 2006-10-27, 11:34am
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Just a note: You might want to check out this thread:
"The Minnow Rocks With An Oxygen Concentrator"

Bye!
Marcie
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Old 2006-10-27, 2:04pm
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Thanks for the info Marcie.

Emily! ROFLMAO!!!!!! dang girl, I forgot the HH's...lots of them, lol. I need a barracuda, great white, a mirage and a delta....to complete my must haves and to retain my title of "Goldilocks" of the torch world. (I know there are more, but those are the four I have my eyes (not hands!lol) on.
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Old 2006-10-27, 3:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firelady
The Minnow has a wider flame, it's about 1.5 times as wide as the Piranha was. We do our tests in BTU's. (British Thermal Units). The Piranha put out 7,689 BTU's per hour. The Minnow puts out 15,378 BTU's per hour. Keep in mind that the Minnow moves a higher volume of fuels. It moves 6 cubic feet of gas per hour, (239 liters per hour), It's oxygen consumption is 20 cubic feet per hour, (or 566 liters per hour).
SWEET.

Sounds like an excellent torch... do you happen to know the BTU's on a Barracuda? I love my cuda but the specs on the Minnow make me kind of... want one.
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Old 2006-10-28, 5:42am
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The Minnow sounds really interesting to me. I have a Barracuda running with an Integra but only use the inner flame. Using it with the outer flame is too much for me (and I think it is too reducing with the Integra).
Sometimes the inner flame of the Barracuda is too narrow. Maybe the Minnow would be Just Right! This is reminding me of a story with 3 bears(:

Just to clarify...I know you already said it, Marcie...but you say the Minnow flame is 1-1/2 times the width of the Piranha?? I am using household natural gas right now but it sounds like I would have to go back to propane with the Minnow.

I guess the other option is the Betta but if its flame is the same width as the Piranha, I don't see any reason to switch. So the Betta flame width is about the same as the Piranha??

Thanks for your help, Marcie. So far have been very, very happy with the Beth torches. I had a Bead Burner before the Barracuda.

Sandy
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  #28  
Old 2006-10-29, 12:07pm
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So... Been reading this with great interest as I was trying to decide which torch to step up to from a nortel minor. I think the Minnow will fit the bill quite nicely.
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Old 2006-10-29, 12:29pm
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I'd also really like, if you know them, the BTU's for the Betta. I have 6 natural gas outlets in my new studio, and I'm going to need something for them at some point when I start having workshops.
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Old 2006-10-30, 3:12pm
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The Betta puts out 12,815 BTU's/hour, and the Barracuda puts out 23,067 BTU's/hour. These figures are based on tanks with 5 psi propane and 20 psi oxygen. I don't have the BTU's for the Betta at the low pressures. Although I can say I'm always surprised at how easily the Betta does boro on less than a pound of gas and five pounds oxygen.

Meanwhile, the face diameter of the Piranha was 9.5 mm. The face diameter of the Betta is 16 mm. The face diameter of the SS Minnow is 12 mm. That shows you the relative physical diameter of the torch face, but does not truly indicate the width of the flame while the torch is in use. The Minnow is just nice and bushy for a small torch...

I wouldn't say you'd need to go back to propane for the Minnow....try it with natural gas and see how low you can go with your pressure....

Regarding a "step up" from the Minor. The Minnow will do boro faster and is a real hot, luxurious flame....It's a step up, but size-wise it's not a huge step. If you wanted to go "up"...get a Barracuda!!!

Let's see, did I leave anyone's question unanswered???
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